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Cassette lockring portable removal tools... question.

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Cassette lockring portable removal tools... question.

Old 09-06-16, 01:24 PM
  #1  
corrado33
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Cassette lockring portable removal tools... question.

Recently something has popped up in my amazon feed that I thought was interesting. It was a "portable" lockring removal tool. Specifically, this one.

LINKY

I didn't know these things existed, but the question I have is this.

How do you tighten the lockring once you've removed it and supposedly replaced the spoke? Do you still need to carry a park tool cassette removal tool and a wrench? I mean, those things go on really freaking tight, no way you could do it by hand without the proper tools. So, sure, this tool will be great for removing the lockring, but with no way to tighten it... it's kinda useless right?
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Old 09-06-16, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
So, sure, this tool will be great for removing the lockring, but with no way to tighten it... it's kinda useless right?

"Tool can also be used in reverse to install the lockring"
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Old 09-06-16, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
"Tool can also be used in reverse to install the lockring"
Yep, missed that... Except for the fact that you wouldn't be able to put any pressure on the tool unless you had a SS for the same reason that SSs can't use derailleurs as tensioners.
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Old 09-06-16, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
Recently something has popped up in my amazon feed that I thought was interesting. It was a "portable" lockring removal tool. Specifically, this one.

LINKY

I didn't know these things existed, but the question I have is this.

How do you tighten the lockring once you've removed it and supposedly replaced the spoke? Do you still need to carry a park tool cassette removal tool and a wrench? I mean, those things go on really freaking tight, no way you could do it by hand without the proper tools. So, sure, this tool will be great for removing the lockring, but with no way to tighten it... it's kinda useless right?
That had me scratching my head, but I found these instructions: http://www.jastein.com/PDF/cassette%20lock%20inst.pdf
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Old 09-06-16, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
That had me scratching my head, but I found these instructions: http://www.jastein.com/PDF/cassette%20lock%20inst.pdf
AHHH! You turn the WHEEL and not the pedals to reinstall it.
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Old 09-06-16, 02:24 PM
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I'm not clear on what this tool does. Normally, to remove the cassette, I use a lockring removal tool and a chain whip to keep the cassette from spinning backwards. I don't even know if this is correct, but it works!

Does this eliminate the need for a chain whip? And can you really get enough torque on it to loosen the lockring, let alone tighten it?
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Old 09-06-16, 02:46 PM
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Yes, it's for touring so you don't have to carry a chain whip and a big wrench. Cool tool. I've just settled for a Fiberfix but one of these would be nice to have. Not a gimmick, they've stood the test of time.
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Old 09-06-16, 03:20 PM
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Last time this came up the suggestion of Zip Tie the big sprocket to the spokes .
rather than needing a Chain whip . made sense.


My Touring rig had a freewheel Hub That was easy to cope with..
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Old 09-06-16, 03:24 PM
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I use a regular cassette removal tool. The wrench just barely was not big enough to fit on it so I filed two of the flats down slightly so that I could put the adjustable wrench on it that I wanted to carry. I wrote up an alternative to a chain whip at this link:
http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/80...ip-travel.html

You do not have to get those cassette lock rings on that tight. Whether you use the Stein tool or the substitute chain whip I use, you should make sure that you can get the cassette off while you are still at home. But, you need to get them on tighter than hand tight.

Also the Stein tool or any other tool that uses the frame as part of the tool for leverage, you want to make sure you will not damage the frame when using it.
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Old 09-06-16, 04:01 PM
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If you already have the Park FR 5 there is no need to buy another. It is small, light, works fine also. As suggested by fietsbob bring a few wire ties (not a chain whip) to secure cassette to spokes through holes in largest cog for removal (won't work if you have a plastic spoke guard like Tourist MSN!) Borrow a 12" adjustable wrench from car camper, hardware store or repair shop. The FR 5 will work well for re-installation as the cassette pawls will keep it from spinning clockwise. Just a few clicks is tight enough with the same borrowed wrench. As suggested above, practice at home before the trip to make sure this works and to make sure the lock ring is not over tight.

Last edited by BobG; 09-06-16 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 09-06-16, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I use a regular cassette removal tool. [...] I wrote up an alternative to a chain whip at this link:
http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/80...ip-travel.html

[...]

Also the Stein tool or any other tool that uses the frame as part of the tool for leverage, you want to make sure you will not damage the frame when using it.
+1.

Most of these apparently clever tools come with warnings that you may damage your frame and that they may not work if the lockring has been gorilla tightened.

I've opted for a shop strength cassette tool (albeit "utralight") and use the fiberFix kevlar tied to a short length of chain (spare links...) instead of a dedicated whip. Tried and worked beautifully.
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Old 09-06-16, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
+1.

Most of these apparently clever tools come with warnings that you may damage your frame and that they may not work if the lockring has been gorilla tightened.

I've opted for a shop strength cassette tool (albeit "utralight") and use the fiberFix kevlar tied to a short length of chain (spare links...) instead of a dedicated whip. Tried and worked beautifully.
I never thought I'd write this sentence...

The big red wrench in the photo of the above mentioned lockring tool is great. it's a WolfTooth BB/Lockring wrench. It's made entirely from milled aluminum, so it only weighs a couple of ounces, yet it has the functionality of a full-sized tool.

So, yes, on my last tour I carried a BB wrench and a lockring tool. Ultralight!!!
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Old 09-06-16, 06:03 PM
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While we are on this subject, a few years ago, I cleaned out an old bike shop and brought home about two dozen different lockring bits, all different shapes and sizes. Only two or three fit my wheels and my bottom bracket, but I don't want to toss the rest. Is there basically one size lockring in use these days, or are there still many?
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Old 09-06-16, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
While we are on this subject, a few years ago, I cleaned out an old bike shop and brought home about two dozen different lockring bits, all different shapes and sizes. Only two or three fit my wheels and my bottom bracket, but I don't want to toss the rest. Is there basically one size lockring in use these days, or are there still many?
You probably have several tools from the freewheel cluster era, I have a couple Suntour tools, at least one Regina cluster tool, but I think I lack the Normandy cluster tool if I recall correctly. I might have one or two others that I picked up at garage sales, but never had a cluster to mate with it.

Sram and Shimano 8 and 9 speed cassettes (and probably several others) use a common tool. I bought one that served my needs for several years, but it did not work on a Sram Dual Drive hub on my foldup bike so I had to buy a second cassette tool that works on the same cassettes, but also will fit on that hub.

I am not going to comment on bottom brackets, I have standardized on two tools for my current fleet (one a Shimano type and one Campy), I try to make sure that I do not buy any bikes or bottom brackets that go beyond those two tools.
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Old 09-06-16, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
.....I try to make sure that I do not buy any bikes or bottom brackets that go beyond those two tools.
And I will probably ride my 1996 GT Outpost until either I - or it - drops dead. So should I toss all those other lockring tools, or try to sell them?

Also, in a thread that I started elsewhere about my cassette coming loose, several people commented that you need to tighten the lockring until your knuckles bleed. In this thread, lots of people are saying that it doesn't need to be so tight, which is what I remember from previous removals and reinstalls. Which is it?
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Old 09-06-16, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Also, in a thread that I started elsewhere about my cassette coming loose, several people commented that you need to tighten the lockring until your knuckles bleed. In this thread, lots of people are saying that it doesn't need to be so tight, which is what I remember from previous removals and reinstalls. Which is it?
Well, since your cassette was coming loose, it needs to be tighter...
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Old 09-06-16, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Well, since your cassette was coming loose, it needs to be tighter...
Brilliantly put. There's nothing like sarcasm to turn a good thread sour.

Anyway, what I MEANT was that I tightened the lockring until the damned bit was slipping on it and I felt like I couldn't possibly go any further. This comment was followed up by several responses stating that you need to apply a TON of torque to the cassette lockring to install it safely and properly. I've never had to go beyond what my arthritic elbows could squeak out, so I don't know if there's another problem here, or what. But let's forget it, as this is someone else's thread.
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Old 09-06-16, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
several people commented that you need to tighten the lockring until your knuckles bleed.
Not true, they will often tighten themselves just standing hard on your cranks as you climb. Those threads are somewhat fine, no reason to take a chance of stripping them.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
Not true, they will often tighten themselves just standing hard on your cranks as you climb. Those threads are somewhat fine, no reason to take a chance of stripping them.
Freewheels will tighten that way but not cassettes. I put my lockings on more than hand tight but it's pretty snug. No bleeding knuckles here.
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Old 09-06-16, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Brilliantly put. There's nothing like sarcasm to turn a good thread sour.

Anyway, what I MEANT was that I tightened the lockring until the damned bit was slipping on it and I felt like I couldn't possibly go any further. This comment was followed up by several responses stating that you need to apply a TON of torque to the cassette lockring to install it safely and properly. I've never had to go beyond what my arthritic elbows could squeak out, so I don't know if there's another problem here, or what. But let's forget it, as this is someone else's thread.
you a probably fine with the way you install the lock ring. I just get mine pretty tight, and have never had one loosen up or had cassette wobble.
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Old 09-06-16, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
Freewheels will tighten that way but not cassettes.
You're absolutely correct, brain fart on my part. Too much time working on older, errr I mean vintage bikes lately.
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Old 09-06-16, 09:28 PM
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I cut a slot in my park fr5 tool and use a wrench on a multi-tool for leverage to remove or install cassetted while on the road. As noted above, the lockring only needs to be hand tight. See images.
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Old 09-06-16, 11:12 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
And I will probably ride my 1996 GT Outpost until either I - or it - drops dead. So should I toss all those other lockring tools, or try to sell them?

Also, in a thread that I started elsewhere about my cassette coming loose, several people commented that you need to tighten the lockring until your knuckles bleed. In this thread, lots of people are saying that it doesn't need to be so tight, which is what I remember from previous removals and reinstalls. Which is it?
I tighten the cassette lockring and and my BBs to the recommended torque using a torque wrench. The recommended torque for my cassette lockring it is about 25 ft lb. It takes some effort to get it that tight. However, the tightening specs are usually given as a range; and I tighten most of my fasteners to the low end of the range.
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Old 09-07-16, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Also, in a thread that I started elsewhere about my cassette coming loose, several people commented that you need to tighten the lockring until your knuckles bleed. In this thread, lots of people are saying that it doesn't need to be so tight, which is what I remember from previous removals and reinstalls. Which is it?
I once torqued a lockring down to the middle of the spec using a 16 inch torque wrench. (Shimano spec is 21-36 lb-ft.)

It took a good deal of effort with that torque wrench, (I'm only a 150 lb gorilla) so now my empirical gauge for how tight they should be is "slightly less than as tight as I can get them without hurting myself with a 12 inch crescent wrench. The spec is tighter than most people realize. Does it NEED to be that tight? I dunno, but I tend to take torque values to heart. They're there for a reason. Yes, I am the person who torques their lugnuts on their car down every time I have a wheel off... 82 lb-ft for my old VW.
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Old 09-07-16, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bwgride View Post
I cut a slot in my park fr5 tool and use a wrench on a multi-tool for leverage to remove or install cassetted while on the road. As noted above, the lockring only needs to be hand tight. See images.
The slot is a very good idea. I might do that too. Thanks.

But I disagree on hand tight. I could not figure out what the noise was from hitting bumps on my foldup bike was, but finally figured out that the individual cassette sprockets were rattling on the freehub when I hit big bumps. It was tighter than hand tight, but still too loose.

I use a torque level that is a bit tighter than water bottle cage bolts, but weaker than a seatpost bolt. And since I use a small multi-tool for those bolts, it is pretty clear that I use a small wrench for the cassette too.
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