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I'm Neutral about Carbon

Old 05-13-17, 02:04 PM
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I'm Neutral about Carbon

If you love carbon - - fine.
If you hate carbon - - fine.
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Old 05-13-17, 02:18 PM
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It's not a fine, it's a tax.
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Old 05-13-17, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
It's not a fine, it's a tax.
My kind of humor.

-Snuts-
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Old 05-13-17, 02:36 PM
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Aren't we all basically carbon?
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Old 05-13-17, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Aren't we all basically carbon?
Bags of water?
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Old 05-13-17, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Aren't we all basically carbon?
If you are equating bikes to humans, then do you have a preference of which you prefer to ride?
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Old 05-13-17, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bwgride
If you are equating bikes to humans, then do you have a preference of which you prefer to ride?
Definitely female. 😁
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Old 05-13-17, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by stardognine
Definitely female. 😁
Bikes?
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Old 05-13-17, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Bikes?
la bicicleta
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Old 05-15-17, 11:30 AM
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The twin joys of ignorance and apathy:


I don't know, and I don't care.
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Old 05-15-17, 02:11 PM
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Old 05-15-17, 02:28 PM
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I can't afford, scratch that, I refuse to pay for carbon so I just pretend it doesn't exist...
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Old 05-15-17, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I can't afford, scratch that, I refuse to pay for carbon so I just pretend it doesn't exist...
But...some of the most expensive bikes out there are custom steel!
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Old 05-15-17, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nickw
But...some of the most expensive bikes out there are custom steel!
Yeah, I pretend they don't exist too!
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Old 05-15-17, 10:00 PM
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Carbon neutral? Carbon is a more environmentaly friendly frame material than Steel or aluminum.
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Old 05-15-17, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord
Carbon neutral? Carbon is a more environmentaly friendly frame material than Steel or aluminum.
I am not disagreeing, I have simply never seen a good study to back up your comment.

How is it more environmentally friendly? At the manufacturing point? At the end point? Overall in every way measurable?

What i have read is this-
- it takes 14 times more energy to create a CF frame vs a steel frame.
- steel and aluminum frames and components can be recycled. There is no established recycling process for CF frames or components.
- CF doesnt break down over time due to the very properties which make it so appealing as a finished product.


There are steel frame bikes still in use which are 50 years old. Millions of 20-40 year old steel frame bikes are still able to be used in the US alone. Seriously- millions.
At what year of use does a steel frame catch up to carbon?...after 10 years? 20?


I am genuinely interested in this topic so please link specifics showing in what way(s) metal frames are environmentally worse, and measurably how much worse they are.

Really- Worse in terms of water use at the point of manufacturing? Worse in terms of pollutants released durong manufacturing? Worse how?
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Old 05-16-17, 06:49 AM
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this argument is frankly taxing my brain, but I am steeling myself for more...
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Old 05-16-17, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I am not disagreeing, I have simply never seen a good study to back up your comment.

How is it more environmentally friendly? At the manufacturing point? At the end point? Overall in every way measurable?

What i have read is this-
- it takes 14 times more energy to create a CF frame vs a steel frame.
- steel and aluminum frames and components can be recycled. There is no established recycling process for CF frames or components.
- CF doesnt break down over time due to the very properties which make it so appealing as a finished product.


There are steel frame bikes still in use which are 50 years old. Millions of 20-40 year old steel frame bikes are still able to be used in the US alone. Seriously- millions.
At what year of use does a steel frame catch up to carbon?...after 10 years? 20?


I am genuinely interested in this topic so please link specifics showing in what way(s) metal frames are environmentally worse, and measurably how much worse they are.

Really- Worse in terms of water use at the point of manufacturing? Worse in terms of pollutants released durong manufacturing? Worse how?
I've really questioned how much waste is produced manuf carbon frames. I know a lot of the companies use vacuum bags, so essentially a plastic bag for every component produced, which is tossed. It gets complicated since you have to look at the whole supply chain, soup to nuts. Steel seems better instinctively, but when factoring in large scale production, mining ore, shipping....who knows.
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Old 05-16-17, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by nickw
I've really questioned how much waste is produced manuf carbon frames. I know a lot of the companies use vacuum bags, so essentially a plastic bag for every component produced, which is tossed. It gets complicated since you have to look at the whole supply chain, soup to nuts. Steel seems better instinctively, but when factoring in large scale production, mining ore, shipping....who knows.
It would be interesting to find out, but since studies like that might never be made on the rather small bicycle industry, it's easier to just go with the tried-and-true eco-friendly method of buying USED. Regardless of frame material, reusing something that's already been created will inherently be "better for the environment". It's also cheaper.
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Old 05-16-17, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Aren't we all basically carbon?
Bipedal carbon-based life forms (with apologies to the OP ).
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Old 05-16-17, 02:03 PM
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You can find a decent carbon bike on Craigslist. Many haven't been ridden 20 miles. People get them with good intentions, but the gold loses its luster when they actually have to work for it. Personally, a titanium bike is next up on my list.
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Old 05-16-17, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord
Carbon neutral? Carbon is a more environmentaly friendly frame material than Steel or aluminum.
I've heard this before but I've never seen the evidence/studies either, so I'd be very interested to hear your source for this as well.
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Old 05-16-17, 03:29 PM
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Sorry to inform you but there is carbon in steel. I love crystallized carbon frames aka diamond frames.
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Old 05-16-17, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ce111917
I've heard this before but I've never seen the evidence/studies either, so I'd be very interested to hear your source for this as well.
Steel has a high carbon footprint, as high CO2 coking coal is burned in the steel making process .Al uses a lot of electrical energy to refine, it was very expensive to make Alu until electrical power became plentiful. Carbon fiber sequesters carbon in the bike frame, it isn't emitted into the atmosphere as GHG gases.
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Old 05-17-17, 03:44 AM
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My steel frame is 40+ years-old. I rode it yesterday. In the extreme unlikely-hood that becomes unusable as a bicycle I throw it in the recycle bin.

It's hard for me believe that current carbon-frames will be ridden 40 years from now. The the landfill is where they'll end up
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