Interesting little wood burning stove.
05-24-17, 04:54 AM
#26
For me this is the big issue because the majority of my touring-nights I'm wild-camping. It's definitely incompatible with my philosophy of near-zero-impact.
05-24-17, 05:30 AM
#27
Senior Member
When I get to the end of a tough day of riding, I want cooking action pretty well straight away. Doesn't matter if it's propane or alcohol, they fit the bill equally well. Tramping around looking for dry twigs to burn (and trust me, when you need them the most is when they can't be found) is just task that I don't want.
And agreed about the environmental things. I can't understand how burning wood is carbon neutral, and moreso when there has been a manufacturing process to compress the wood into pellets.
And agreed about the environmental things. I can't understand how burning wood is carbon neutral, and moreso when there has been a manufacturing process to compress the wood into pellets.
05-24-17, 07:25 AM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
I used my stove last weekend (Friday and Saturday). I always have a pile of firewood ready before I start. There is also the factor of windscreen. The boil is affected in windy environment but nevertheless I do enjoy not worrying about bringing and buying fuel. If you camp in locations with abundant dry wood I think the woodstove is a winner. (aside from places that forbid the use of ...)
For testing it out home, I used scrap wood from my shop. Pieces of pine with most pieces about 3/4" square and 2" long. The instructions say to make sure the pieces are short enough to be below the vent holes on the wood box. I used it outside on a cement slab and put a cookie tin lid under it to catch the ashes.
The very first time, I put the pot on top as soon as I lit the wood. It brought 2 pints of water to a boil in around 5 to 7 minutes. The second time I tested it, I allowed the wood to be burning well before putting a fry pan on to cook some eggs. I noticed less soot on the bottom of the pan using the second method, but both methods produce soot on the bottom of the pan. The wood burned hot and there was very little noticeable smoke or ashes. I found filling the wood box once was enough to boil the water and cook the eggs, but some reviewers mention having to add wood and caution people to make sure they have their wood supply ready at their side so they don't have to wander around looking for more wood.
I later used it in a campground using small dead twigs from fir trees I picked up around the campsite. I used twigs of mostly thumb diameter as they don't burn up as quickly. I set it on top of the campfire grate so I didn't have to worry about where the ashes would go and boiled water for coffee. The coffee tasted fine with no noticeable taste of smoke. I also didn't notice any smell on my clothing. Hardwood would probably burn slower, but fir and pine worked fine. Certain fuels might not work so well.
(I was surprised that the very bottom of the system stayed fairly cool and the whole thing cooled down fairly quickly once the fire had been out a while.)
Have fun with your stove! I sure hope you get an opportunity to use it on your next adventure!
The very first time, I put the pot on top as soon as I lit the wood. It brought 2 pints of water to a boil in around 5 to 7 minutes. The second time I tested it, I allowed the wood to be burning well before putting a fry pan on to cook some eggs. I noticed less soot on the bottom of the pan using the second method, but both methods produce soot on the bottom of the pan. The wood burned hot and there was very little noticeable smoke or ashes. I found filling the wood box once was enough to boil the water and cook the eggs, but some reviewers mention having to add wood and caution people to make sure they have their wood supply ready at their side so they don't have to wander around looking for more wood.
I later used it in a campground using small dead twigs from fir trees I picked up around the campsite. I used twigs of mostly thumb diameter as they don't burn up as quickly. I set it on top of the campfire grate so I didn't have to worry about where the ashes would go and boiled water for coffee. The coffee tasted fine with no noticeable taste of smoke. I also didn't notice any smell on my clothing. Hardwood would probably burn slower, but fir and pine worked fine. Certain fuels might not work so well.
(I was surprised that the very bottom of the system stayed fairly cool and the whole thing cooled down fairly quickly once the fire had been out a while.)
Have fun with your stove! I sure hope you get an opportunity to use it on your next adventure!
05-24-17, 07:27 AM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
I'm not sure what stove are others using but a canister stove comes in a non refillable container that is thrown away when empty, an alcohol stove fuel comes in a plastic bottle that gets thrown away when empty. Perhaps the only contender would be whisperlite but overall all of the stoves that require fuel come in some sort of packaging that contributes to creating waste.
05-24-17, 09:11 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,480
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
7 Posts
Its all marketing. It seems that even if you use a combination of Narwhal whale oil, mountain top leveling mining, and leather from freshly clubbed baby seals in the manufacture of anything, all you have to do is say its carbon neutral and fair trade with a picture of a forest glade on every layer of packaging, and it will sell. Even if its a useless product that no one really needs. I am not a tree hugger, though I have stroked a couple gently, so I try not to do this. The best way to reduce or recycle waste is to be careful of what you use in the first place.
05-24-17, 03:34 PM
#31
Senior Member
I'm not sure what stove are others using but a canister stove comes in a non refillable container that is thrown away when empty, an alcohol stove fuel comes in a plastic bottle that gets thrown away when empty. Perhaps the only contender would be whisperlite but overall all of the stoves that require fuel come in some sort of packaging that contributes to creating waste.
05-24-17, 04:16 PM
#32
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,369
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6222 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
The problem lies in burning fossilized carbon which has been out of rotation for 10s to 100s of millions of years. Even a little bit of that would get naturally burned...coal seam fires are relatively common...and released back into the atmosphere. If it weren't, all the carbon would eventually get locked up on either coal, petroleum or limestone and the plants would die.
Burning fossil carbon wouldn't even be that bad if we clever little monkeys didn't burn so much of it. But if we burned less of the fossil carbon and more of the "modern" carbon, we'd be a lot better off.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
05-24-17, 04:34 PM
#33
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
Okay, I don't know exactly how "carbon neutral" is defined (and am not going to bother googling it right now), and I'm not going to try to sell the attraction of an efficient wood burning camp stove to anyone who doesn't find the idea attractive.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
05-24-17, 07:33 PM
#34
Senior Member
Okay, I don't know exactly how "carbon neutral" is defined (and am not going to bother googling it right now), and I'm not going to try to sell the attraction of an efficient wood burning camp stove to anyone who doesn't find the idea attractive.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
05-24-17, 07:49 PM
#35
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
As for me, I'm not going to take it anywhere near that far. My bike will be steel, it'll have a leather saddle, rubber tires, and so on. I hate to think what my cell phone is made of.
05-24-17, 08:38 PM
#36
Senior Member
I do most of those things, but when I read it back, I realize I sound like some kind of a nut.
05-25-17, 08:34 AM
#37
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,369
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6222 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Okay, I don't know exactly how "carbon neutral" is defined (and am not going to bother googling it right now), and I'm not going to try to sell the attraction of an efficient wood burning camp stove to anyone who doesn't find the idea attractive.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
I definitely find it attractive, though. I pass piles of discarded wood all the time, broken furniture, palettes, packing crates, yard trimmings, whatever.
Intercepting some wood on its way to the landfill and burning it may not be "carbon neural" but it appeals to me as an environmentally preferable alternative to buying a bottle of something.
To be clear, I find the stove intriguing. As an updraft gasifier it could be efficient but it is likely to make tars and soot so it might not be as clean burning as you'd think. As I said above, I am somewhat concerned about its utility during fire bans as it is one of the items that USFS wants to keep out of forests. It's not the easy to stop from burning if you have to as there's no shut-off. But I may get one just to play with it.
I also find the Biolite stove intriguing and I've seen one in action. They are kind of loud but they have a better burn than this one would because of the fan that forces air into the chamber. This kind of gasifier is called a downdraft gasifier which is much more efficient since oxidation zone is in a different place and the tars and soot have to travel down into the combustion zone and are more quickly and readily converted to carbon dioxide and water. I probably won't be buying one because of a number of factors like cost, weight and, frankly, it doesn't work quite like advertized.
Bicycles are already a low carbon way to travel. We don't really need to wear hair shirts as penance. Even a steel or aluminum or titanium bicycle doesn't use that much carbon in their construction. I would like to point out, however, that carbon fiber bikes are petroleum derived so their carbon footprint is much, much higher.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
05-25-17, 09:03 AM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 1,030
Bikes: 2019 Trek Stash 7, 1994 Specialized Epic 1986 Diamondback Ascent 1996 Klein Pulse Comp, 2006 Specialized Sequoia Elite
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked 523 Times
in
291 Posts
There's good carbon and bad carbon. Carbon from trees and plants is carbon neutral because it is short rotation carbon. For this kind of stove, the carbon was likely incorporated into the wood within the last 1 to 10 years. It's good carbon because plants still need carbon to grow. Thus, burning wood is carbon neutral.
The problem lies in burning fossilized carbon which has been out of rotation for 10s to 100s of millions of years. Even a little bit of that would get naturally burned...coal seam fires are relatively common...and released back into the atmosphere. If it weren't, all the carbon would eventually get locked up on either coal, petroleum or limestone and the plants would die.
Burning fossil carbon wouldn't even be that bad if we clever little monkeys didn't burn so much of it. But if we burned less of the fossil carbon and more of the "modern" carbon, we'd be a lot better off.
The problem lies in burning fossilized carbon which has been out of rotation for 10s to 100s of millions of years. Even a little bit of that would get naturally burned...coal seam fires are relatively common...and released back into the atmosphere. If it weren't, all the carbon would eventually get locked up on either coal, petroleum or limestone and the plants would die.
Burning fossil carbon wouldn't even be that bad if we clever little monkeys didn't burn so much of it. But if we burned less of the fossil carbon and more of the "modern" carbon, we'd be a lot better off.
I expect those wood pellets mentioned earlier are made with the waste products from lumber production.
The Biolite design is pretty neat. The original design was much larger and was designed to help people in third world contries where they were burning dung and all types of scrap in inefficient fireplaces inside their unventilated houses. Many people end up with respiratory problems and lung diseases from breathing in the smoke from their fires. It has the added benefit of generating power which could be used to power a couple efficient led bulbs etc. The backpacking version first started as a kickstarter campain with the intention the capital could help the designers with the goal of providing these larger stoves to these third world countries.
Sharing the woodstove design with a buddy of mine reminded him he inherited an old Sierra Zip stove from his dad. It had hardly any use. This design used a small fan with a C battery to add air to the fire. He had tried it out and then showed it to me last weekend after we got back from backcountry skiing. The stove appeared to be made out of a combination of tin and galvanized steel. It had a damper to control the rate of the burn. Even with the fan, it didn't seem to burn as cleanly as the stove I purchased, but than fan really got the fire going. It also produced a lot more smoke than I expected. It's pretty light even with the C battery. I'm not sure how well the thinner metal would hold up over time.
Last edited by mtnbud; 05-25-17 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Adding image
05-25-17, 09:30 AM
#39
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
You can trust me about the carbon neutral aspects of utilizing biomass. My whole career is built around the premise. I've been working on various aspects of converting biomass to energy for 35 years. I've even worked on gasifiers that use the same ideas as this one but in much larger scale...one was 8 stories tall! I've also worked with some of the pioneers of gasification over the years.
To be clear, I find the stove intriguing. As an updraft gasifier it could be efficient but it is likely to make tars and soot so it might not be as clean burning as you'd think. As I said above, I am somewhat concerned about its utility during fire bans as it is one of the items that USFS wants to keep out of forests. It's not the easy to stop from burning if you have to as there's no shut-off. But I may get one just to play with it.
I also find the Biolite stove intriguing and I've seen one in action. They are kind of loud but they have a better burn than this one would because of the fan that forces air into the chamber. This kind of gasifier is called a downdraft gasifier which is much more efficient since oxidation zone is in a different place and the tars and soot have to travel down into the combustion zone and are more quickly and readily converted to carbon dioxide and water. I probably won't be buying one because of a number of factors like cost, weight and, frankly, it doesn't work quite like advertized.
Bicycles are already a low carbon way to travel. We don't really need to wear hair shirts as penance. Even a steel or aluminum or titanium bicycle doesn't use that much carbon in their construction. I would like to point out, however, that carbon fiber bikes are petroleum derived so their carbon footprint is much, much higher.
To be clear, I find the stove intriguing. As an updraft gasifier it could be efficient but it is likely to make tars and soot so it might not be as clean burning as you'd think. As I said above, I am somewhat concerned about its utility during fire bans as it is one of the items that USFS wants to keep out of forests. It's not the easy to stop from burning if you have to as there's no shut-off. But I may get one just to play with it.
I also find the Biolite stove intriguing and I've seen one in action. They are kind of loud but they have a better burn than this one would because of the fan that forces air into the chamber. This kind of gasifier is called a downdraft gasifier which is much more efficient since oxidation zone is in a different place and the tars and soot have to travel down into the combustion zone and are more quickly and readily converted to carbon dioxide and water. I probably won't be buying one because of a number of factors like cost, weight and, frankly, it doesn't work quite like advertized.
Bicycles are already a low carbon way to travel. We don't really need to wear hair shirts as penance. Even a steel or aluminum or titanium bicycle doesn't use that much carbon in their construction. I would like to point out, however, that carbon fiber bikes are petroleum derived so their carbon footprint is much, much higher.
You don't mention alcohol. My understanding is that alcohol could be carbon neutral, depending on the details. If it's made from corn grown with lots of fertilizer, a lot of petroleum goes into making it. At any rate I do like cooking with alcohol. No fumes, very little hardware.
Certainly the concern about fire getting out of control, and causing major damage, is real. There will be times when it's a bad idea to use a wood burning stove. No doubt some bicycle tourists are camping deep in the woods where forest fire danger is real. But not all are doing that. I've camped in lots of places where a little wood fire would have been pretty safe.
As I've said, the idea intrigues me. I'm going to try it. That's not to say it's a good idea; I have lots of bad ideas.
I'm used to it. I'm not trying to convert anyone.
By the way, a bamboo bike isn't especially carbon neutral either, is it? I mean, it involves a lot of metal parts, a lot of epoxy, and so on.
Well yeah, but this is a bike touring forum. We get used to that....
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Last edited by rhm; 05-25-17 at 09:37 AM.
05-25-17, 10:13 AM
#40
Senior Member
“Bamboo bikes have almost a negative carbon footprint,” said Craig Calfee, President of Calfee Design, which makes bamboo and carbon fiber frames and bikes. “The living bamboo plant may have consumed more carbon dioxide than was used in manufacturing and transporting the frame.”
Burning of gasoline or natural gas in campstoves is a completely unnecessary source of ghgs, when wood is such an easily available alternative.
https://momentummag.com/how-green-is...manufacturing/
05-25-17, 10:53 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,207
Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times
in
51 Posts
Alcohol requires quite a bit of energy to distill. One would have to be careful to make sure that was coming form a carbon neutral source, too. Quite a bit of wasted water involved in alcohol manufacturing, too, if you live in an are where water isn't abundant.
05-25-17, 11:29 AM
#42
Senior Member
Alcohol could be completely carbon neutral depending on its method of manufacture. The material source -corn or whatever- would have to be produced without fossil fuel fertilizers and harvested in a carbon neutral manner. The machinery would have to be electric, powered by renewable sources, or harvested by animal power. The heat source for distillation would have to be carbon neutral as well. Its actually a complicated question.
05-25-17, 12:57 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Let's take into account packaging. How does the product get to you? Alcohol in a plastic bottle, canister stove in a nonrecyclable container etc..
05-25-17, 01:24 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,207
Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times
in
51 Posts
Sure, if we can also talk about how we obtain our fuels. Whom did you receive permission from to harvest and burn those sticks? Did you know that state and federal forests can require paid-for permits to collect any firewood?
05-25-17, 01:35 PM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
umm, this is the internet so I'm assuming you and I live in totally different environments and different rules. First, there is not need for any permission where I usually camp. Second, the tiny twigs that lay around everywhere can hardly qualify as firewood or harvesting firewood. It's more like cleaning up litter, at least in my neck of the woods.
Third, I'm not a dedicated wood stove fanatic. I use alcohol stove too and sometimes I use my pocket rocket.
Here is where I cooked my diner Thursday night (using SOLO wood stove):
Here is where I cooked my breakfast last Saturday morning (using SOLO wood stove):
Third, I'm not a dedicated wood stove fanatic. I use alcohol stove too and sometimes I use my pocket rocket.
Here is where I cooked my diner Thursday night (using SOLO wood stove):
Here is where I cooked my breakfast last Saturday morning (using SOLO wood stove):
Last edited by PedalingWalrus; 05-25-17 at 01:42 PM.
05-25-17, 02:19 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,207
Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times
in
51 Posts
I can't imagine forest lands rules change from Michigan to Maine.
I just want to make sure if we are talking about the impact to the environment, we cover all bases!
05-25-17, 02:26 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,612
Bikes: Corvid Sojourner, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Co-Motion Divide, Co-Motion Java Tandem, Salsa Warbird, Salsa Beargrease, Carver Tandem
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times
in
227 Posts
Yeah, if you click on the link you supplied and scroll down you'll see that permits are required in regards to "Firewood Cutting"
In addition, let me reiterate that for these woodburning stoves we are talking about dry pieces that are about 3 inches long and as thick as your pinky or smaller. Such debree is usually just laying around campsites where other campers might lament the lack of firewood. The stuff is so small that no one wants to bend their back for it, stuff that is plenty sufficient for tiny woodburning stove but grossly inefficient when it comes to having a campfire.
In addition, let me reiterate that for these woodburning stoves we are talking about dry pieces that are about 3 inches long and as thick as your pinky or smaller. Such debree is usually just laying around campsites where other campers might lament the lack of firewood. The stuff is so small that no one wants to bend their back for it, stuff that is plenty sufficient for tiny woodburning stove but grossly inefficient when it comes to having a campfire.
Are you sure, or is it jsut a routinely ignored law? Maine seems to require permits on public lands: Gathering: Hunting, Fishing & Gathering: Bureau of Parks and Lands: Maine DACF
I can't imagine forest lands rules change from Michigan to Maine.
I just want to make sure if we are talking about the impact to the environment, we cover all bases!
I can't imagine forest lands rules change from Michigan to Maine.
I just want to make sure if we are talking about the impact to the environment, we cover all bases!
Last edited by PedalingWalrus; 05-25-17 at 02:31 PM.
05-25-17, 02:39 PM
#48
hello
I'm not sure what stove are others using but a canister stove comes in a non refillable container that is thrown away when empty, an alcohol stove fuel comes in a plastic bottle that gets thrown away when empty. Perhaps the only contender would be whisperlite but overall all of the stoves that require fuel come in some sort of packaging that contributes to creating waste.
My backpacking trips are short (over-nighter or two) and I use a 100 gram iso-pro canister. I use a G-Works adapter to refill or top off my little canister from a larger, 1 pound canister before heading out each time. Saves money too. And in warmer weather you can transfer fuel from those cheap Asian butane cans into your canister.
05-25-17, 03:44 PM
#49
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,369
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6222 Post(s)
Liked 4,221 Times
in
2,367 Posts
Well, I refer you to Craig Calfee, who says this
Steel is especially bad, because of the use of coking coal in steel production, plus the huge environmental damage done by mining. Carbon bikes have the added advantage of carbon sequestration, the carbon in the frame is stored, keeping it from returning to the atmosphere.
Burning of gasoline or natural gas in campstoves is a completely unnecessary source of ghgs, when wood is such an easily available alternative.
https://momentummag.com/how-green-is...manufacturing/
Steel is especially bad, because of the use of coking coal in steel production, plus the huge environmental damage done by mining. Carbon bikes have the added advantage of carbon sequestration, the carbon in the frame is stored, keeping it from returning to the atmosphere.
Burning of gasoline or natural gas in campstoves is a completely unnecessary source of ghgs, when wood is such an easily available alternative.
https://momentummag.com/how-green-is...manufacturing/
No, a carbon bike isn't a form of carbon sequestration. The carbon in the carbon fiber isn't made from carbon dioxide taken out of the atmosphere within the last 100, 1000 or even 10 million years. Currently, the carbon comes from petrochemicals which are fossilized carbon. Carbon sequestration is about taking some of the fossil carbon we are using and putting it back underground. There is currently research going on to produce carbon fiber from wood lignin which would be mostly carbon neutral and would be a form of carbon sequestration since the tree is taking the carbon out of the atmosphere but that technology has a long way to go yet.
Finally, before we go too far down the rabbit hole of ecological holiness, look at what that article says. Basically, bicycling uses so little energy compared to automobiles over their lifetime that it's a bit ridiculous to compare them. If I use a canister or two of butane or maybe a quart of gasoline or maybe a quart of alcohol every couple of years on bicycle tours, I'm not too concerned about my carbon footprint. I figure that by consuming less carbon than my fellow countrymen do over the course of my life between tours, I'm okay using a little bit of carbon while on tour.
I already wear the hair shirt by suffering through winters, I don't need to add cactus thorns to the mix to make it even less comfortable. I'm saving 3 tons of carbon from going into the atmosphere per year as it is. Since 1988, that works out to saving about 86 tons of carbon. I'm good...as are most bicyclists.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 05-25-17 at 03:49 PM.
05-25-17, 04:56 PM
#50
Senior Member
The carbon comes from fossil fuels and instead of being burned and added to the earth's atmosphere it is turned into carbon fiber and into a bicycle, a solid form of carbon.
The small wood burning camp stove takes wood pellets, wood which would normally be discarded. so it is truly carbon neutral.
The small wood burning camp stove takes wood pellets, wood which would normally be discarded. so it is truly carbon neutral.