KD5NRH

Trying to remember where I saw this. Guy had basically made a flat plywood piece with a handle that attaches just like a regular pannier, then has something akin to PALS loops on the outside, (I think some were actually PALS compatible, while others were just lashing loops.) for attaching gear. IIRC, he also made a silnylon rain cover for the whole thing in his main camping configuration. Main benefits were that he was able to deal with bulky stuff like sleeping pads and whatnot, without having to find a commercial pannier big enough, could pull the whole thing off and carry it easily if the campsite needed to be a few yards from the bike, and could pack/unpack in a non-linear matter. (i.e. no need to dig through rain gear on top to get the cook kit from the bottom) Overall, it looked practical for touring (where one can perfect an arrangement of gear by trial and error and stick with it) but not so much for utility. (unless, I suppose, one buys the exact same things every shopping run)

Anybody remember this? I'm thinking of doing something similar, and it wouldn't hurt to have his pics and writeup available while planning out the project.

Tourist in MSN

What is a PALS loop?

Rob_E

Not really what you're asking for, but maybe it could provide the functionality you want without the weight of attaching a piece of plywood to your rack: Freerider pannier

I used to have a set of grocery bag panniers, and I got this to replace them. It's more functional and more versatile, I think. It's open topped, so obviously not waterproof, but it has a hole in the bottom to let water drain, so if you packed your stuff in dry bags, it'd work. Of course if you're main goal is to have everything laid out, so you can unpack from the bottom, that's not going to do it.

When I had a sleeping pad that was too big for a pannier, I rolled it up and attached it to the top of the rear rack, or, once or twice, tied it to the handlebars. I have sometimes had gear that's too bulky for a pannier, and in general I've found it more beneficial to get smaller, lighter gear than I have to find ways to carry bulky items.

All my tent and sleeping gear used to fit into one, Ortleib pannier, so it was easy to pull it off the bike and take to where ever camp needed to be. Although it was rare that camp was somewhere I couldn't just wheel my bike to. So while this sounds like an interesting solution if you routinely have to ditch your bike on the way to camp, it sounds like it might be more hassle than it's worth if that's not an issue you regularly face.

A pannier set with pockets can accomplish this as well, but not with the flexibility you're hoping for, I guess. I have now switched to a set-up that has multiple storage spaces rather than two, large panniers. The cookset is in the framebag along with water and tools. There's very little digging. Most items are separated into bags by use, and most bags are smaller than the average pannier. Essentially the bike becomes the backbone of the attaching system, rather than one, plywood pannier back. I don't have to go digging for an item, because there's only one bag that has clothing, and that's all it has. One bag for bedding. One bag for tent stuff. One place where the tools and cookware live. The only thing is that my Anything cages in particular lack that easy-on/easy-off functionality. that's why I try and use them for items that only need when setting up camp, rather than anything that I might want to access throughout the day.

That's why I like the Freerider. It doesn't have the ability to pull stuff out of the bottom or the middle that seem to be looking for, but it holds awkward loads while camping or while shopping, or it's a normal, old, grocery bag holder. My most common uses are carrying a cooler to the campground or carrying a backpack or satchel when I want to leave the bike somewhere and continue on with my stuff. And that might work, too, for you if you found a non-bike pack that had the kind of attachment system you wanted. Throw it an open topped pannier and pull it out when you need it. Doesn't help with water proofness, though. Good luck. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

mstateglfr 

Its those loops on the outside of backpacks and gear carrying cases where you can tie things down onto the backpack.
Its a type of those loops, specifically.

mtnbud

I've heard them called a Daisy Chain.

mstateglfr 

Yeah, thats what i call em. Buddy from work was military for years and called the things on his bag PALS. Then described the difference...i zoned out. They are horizontal instead of vertical, maybe?

Tourist in MSN

Most of my back packs have leather lash tabs, we called them lash tabs, not an acronym.

My military experience was Navy, not a lot of backpacks used on board ships. I suspect the acronym PALS is more recent than my experience anyway.

The photo gives you an idea of the age of my backpacks. I think I bought my Kelty Tour Pack in the 70s? Photo is only three years old. Pack still works great, but I wish it got more usage than it actually gets.

Back to the original question, I can't imagine why anyone would want to lash each of their items onto a board instead of put it all in a bag, or a bag with several pockets? And I can't imagine an easier way to loose stuff than to have lots of items lashed onto a vertical board with lash points. When things fall off they might not make enough noise to alert you to their loss.

KD5NRH

The arrangement I'm remembering was several different sizes of MOLLE pouches, with the lash points being for the bigger stuff like the ground pad and tent. The nonlinear idea being that one might need only the sleep system one night, (after grabbing dinner at a restaurant) pack the cooking gear last one morning, (having everything else packed before breakfast is done) or get only the sleeping bag liner out of the whole pile to stay with a WarmShowers host. Done right, there's no reason it would be any less secure than the assorted stuff that was commonly lashed to an ALICE pack before MOLLE and PALS came along.

Especially for overnighters and other short trips, I like to take a chair along, (the $15 WalMart knockoff of the $100 Helinox Chair One) which just doesn't get small enough to easily find space for in a pannier. Obviously if I'm not camping, it just goes on top of the rack, but if I am camping, the hammock and tarps are usually already there. It would be a pretty simple matter to add PALS loops to the case it comes with, or maybe find an existing case the right size already equipped, (I'd have to measure, but a couple of the dump pouches out there look like the right size) which also allows the chair to be directly accessible on a stop where I don't need anything else. The same goes for anything that might need to be the only thing pulled out on a given stop; tool roll, rain gear, etc.

staehpj1

I rode and camped with a guy on the PCH for a while who had plywood panels bolted to his racks and really cheap backpacks bolted to the plywood. It seemed like just extra weight to me, but I guess it worked OK and it was an inexpensive solution.

FWIW even back when I packed much heavier than I do now or when I needed to carry some extra large bulky item(s) I never found a shortage of places to strap or tie things outside of the panniers. You can fit a lot of stuff on top of a rear rack. You can also put fairly large items in a bar roll. In fact I have done a long camping and cooking tour with everything either in a bar roll or on top of the rear rack and with no panniers at all.

Tourist in MSN

More acronyms. I give up.

thumpism 

Yeah, I have a nephew who speaks in Army-ese and it's rare to get through a sentence without wondering WTF?

fietsbob

Shouldn't you be working , rather than posting here? getting fired won't help your touring plans..

KD5NRH

When I did cheap backpack panniers, I used some very thin plywood, (scavenged from the "pallets and such we're not reusing" bin at the company I was working for at the time) and put it inside the packs. Less than a half pound each in added weight, and it worked well for carrying stuff to classes because the backpacks were already organized to keep pens, calculator, etc. readily available. I think I may even still have one or both in storage somewhere.

MOLLE/PALS is pretty familiar to plenty of outdoor enthusiasts due to both surplus equipment being readily available and a fair number of outdoor gear manufacturers using it for the same reasons the military does; it's a lot easier to produce a single modular system with several optional components than a long list of custom configurations. (Especially since the same guy may want 3-4 canteens for a long hot day, but one canteen and several extra mag pouches for a potentially dangerous escort the next day.)

ALICE is familiar to those of us who were buying surplus gear 20+ years ago. They're still available today, but the older, cheaper stuff tends to be uncomfortable compared to even low end modern gear.

Already out of work for the moment; company moved all operations 150 miles away, and I can't afford to be that far from my kids. I was expecting it in about 6 more weeks, so not exactly unexpected, just sooner than I'd planned/budgeted for. For now, I'm looking for something temporary to get back on plan without the "need a week off after working there for 6-8 weeks" hassle. Plus I took a couple days before job hunting to get out and ride a bit. (In five years with the company, not counting jury duty, I'd taken a grand total of 8 days of leave, three of those for funerals and two sick days. All of them included frequent interruptions, and I even caught some flak for turning my phone off during one of the funerals because the constant texts were distracting. I was definitely overdue for a couple of "me" days, and a "me and my kids" day yesterday without interruption from them.)

Plus, check the post time stamps; I haven't worked graveyard shift in a long time.

Tourist in MSN

Got it. I think the last time I bought surplus stuff was in the 70s. Oops, I have a Norwegian army surplus camp stove that I bought during this century.

tyrion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouch_..._Ladder_System

There's a mil-spec for them, certain webbing size, certain distance apart, etc.