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Does size matter?

Old 02-23-22, 03:29 PM
  #26  
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John N - Another thought with mixing and matching wheel sets -

I have on my radar a Surly ECR. The reason for the thought of it initially was what I described with the soft trail conditions in my previous reply. You can get up around a 3" tire width on the ECR. They have 2 versions of the frameset made to different wheel options (I forget what those are, I want to say one was 27" and the other 29er or 29+? I'd have to look it up again). What I have been thinking of is setting the bike up with more wheel set options so I can have a wide floater wheel set for the soft conditions then have others down to maybe 40-50mm width.

What I found was with disk brake framesets (which that is all the ECR comes as) you CAN do this, however the variance of the rolling OD of the tires needs to be taken in to consideration. With smaller diameters pedal strike in turns can be a real issue. Even 1/2-3/4" reduction in radius (1-1.5" diameter) can be enough to cause issues - it brings the pedals that much closer to the ground when banking turns.
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Old 02-23-22, 04:28 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
Thanks. At this point I am leaning toward bikes that can handle both 700c and 650b. That way I can have narrow "paved" tires and wider "unpaved" tires depending on the tour. While I would guess most frames could theoretically handle both wheel sets sizes, it is the 650 width that seems to be the limiting factor. The total outside wheel diameter going from a 700x35 to a 650x55 should be about the same so the bike's handling should not change all that much.

Tailwinds, John
My Thorn Nomad Mk II, I usually use that with 57mm wide tires, but I did try some 40mm wide tires on it to see how it would handle, handled just fine. The width difference was 17mm.

You are looking at tire sizes that range over 20mm, not much greater than the 17mm range I cited. My point is that you might want to get the 650b wheels. See how 55mm and how 35mm tires work on those wheels. You might decide that a second wheel set is not needed.
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Old 02-24-22, 06:43 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO View Post
John N - Another thought with mixing and matching wheel sets -
What I found was with disk brake framesets (which that is all the ECR comes as) you CAN do this, however the variance of the rolling OD of the tires needs to be taken in to consideration. With smaller diameters pedal strike in turns can be a real issue. Even 1/2-3/4" reduction in radius (1-1.5" diameter) can be enough to cause issues - it brings the pedals that much closer to the ground when banking turns.
I agree. I have been using BikeInsights.com to compare frame geometry and do try to account for different tire sizes using the "align on ground" view. I know that I am fine with my old stolen 56cm Co-Motion Americano and overall enjoyed the ride. When reviewing other bikes, I try to look at the differences and think what that could affect/effect (hate that word!). I know for instance that if I go from drop to flat bars (something I am not against), then the reach can be a little longer if I plan to use swept back bars, a la Jones H-Bar loop.

I do keep an eye on the ground to pedal spindle clearance just for the reason you wrote about.
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Old 02-24-22, 06:46 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
My Thorn Nomad Mk II, I usually use that with 57mm wide tires, but I did try some 40mm wide tires on it to see how it would handle, handled just fine. The width difference was 17mm.

You are looking at tire sizes that range over 20mm, not much greater than the 17mm range I cited. My point is that you might want to get the 650b wheels. See how 55mm and how 35mm tires work on those wheels. You might decide that a second wheel set is not needed.
Oh, I would try that first before buying a second wheel set but I would be concerned that the ground to pedal spindle measurement would change a lot too. That said, I would indeed try it first.
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Old 02-24-22, 09:15 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
Oh, I would try that first before buying a second wheel set but I would be concerned that the ground to pedal spindle measurement would change a lot too. That said, I would indeed try it first.
I understand. I never look very hard at bottom bracket height off the ground, I do not corner very fast so that is not much of an issue to me. I have a vintage (early 60s) Italian bike where I often scrapped the pedals in corners, but that is the only bike where that was an issue, and I cornered a lot faster on that bike several decades ago than I do now.

Plus my Nomad Mk II has a bottom bracket that is quite high compared to other bikes. And that is the only bike where I have run that big of a range of tire sizes.

Different topic, what is the customs duty on having a new bike shipped to USA from EU these days? I bought my Nomad Mk II as frame and fork, not as a complete bike. I expected that to be 4 percent but was charged 6 percent plus a flat fee. You might consider a trip to Europe to make your new bike used instead.
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Old 02-24-22, 09:33 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I understand. I never look very hard at bottom bracket height off the ground, I do not corner very fast so that is not much of an issue to me. I have a vintage (early 60s) Italian bike where I often scrapped the pedals in corners, but that is the only bike where that was an issue, and I cornered a lot faster on that bike several decades ago than I do now.

Plus my Nomad Mk II has a bottom bracket that is quite high compared to other bikes. And that is the only bike where I have run that big of a range of tire sizes.

Different topic, what is the customs duty on having a new bike shipped to USA from EU these days? I bought my Nomad Mk II as frame and fork, not as a complete bike. I expected that to be 4 percent but was charged 6 percent plus a flat fee. You might consider a trip to Europe to make your new bike used instead.
I have been lucky in that I have ordered bikes, lots of parts (Rohloff, SON hubs, etc.) and never had to pay a tax. Plus if you buy from Europe and have it shipped to the USA, the seller waives the expensive VAT (tax) which can be as high as 21%.

That said, I am booked to go to Europe for a couple months this summer. Ideally, I would buy a used bike like I want but since there are very few, I may not have that option. This would be the first new bike I have bought in 3 decades as I strongly prefer to buy a used bike and let someone else take the massive depreciation bikes have. Covid sort of ruin that model. Normally, I would not be as rushed but since my Americano was stolen, I am looking for a new bike. My Thorn Nomad MkII is totally disassembled, including the wheels, so I may have to just rebuild it and take it and be patient.
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Old 02-24-22, 09:51 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
I have been lucky in that I have ordered bikes, lots of parts (Rohloff, SON hubs, etc.) and never had to pay a tax. Plus if you buy from Europe and have it shipped to the USA, the seller waives the expensive VAT (tax) which can be as high as 21%.

That said, I am booked to go to Europe for a couple months this summer. Ideally, I would buy a used bike like I want but since there are very few, I may not have that option. This would be the first new bike I have bought in 3 decades as I strongly prefer to buy a used bike and let someone else take the massive depreciation bikes have. Covid sort of ruin that model. Normally, I would not be as rushed but since my Americano was stolen, I am looking for a new bike. My Thorn Nomad MkII is totally disassembled, including the wheels, so I may have to just rebuild it and take it and be patient.
My Rohloff, I paid no duty on that, but I think I should have been charged. But a bike frame (Nomad Mk II) in a big box, plus it had a lot of other parts in the box to push the price up, and the S&S couplers added to the price, I think that cost me over $100 for customs duty.

I assumed that your Americano was purchased new. Every owner of one that I have talked to was the original owner.

Have a great time in Europe, stay safe, and good luck passing all the covid tests you likely will have to pass along the way.
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Old 02-24-22, 12:18 PM
  #33  
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John, just out of curiosity, what was the maximum tire size your Americano could take, and what did you usually ride?
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Old 02-24-22, 12:26 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
...more tire options...
Yep!!! For now...
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Old 02-24-22, 01:14 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Yep!!! For now...
For the foreseeable future, too - the majority of road and touring and gravel and hybrid bikes, and a significant minority of MTBs still come with 700C, so it is unlikely there will be a reduction in 700C choices any time soon.
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Old 02-25-22, 07:51 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
John, just out of curiosity, what was the maximum tire size your Americano could take, and what did you usually ride?
I usually rode on Schwalbe Supremes (paved only) or Schwalbe Mondials (mixed surface). I can't remember for sure but the rear was only 37 or 35mm, I "think" 37. I tried a larger 40mm Supreme and it did not fit. The front fork handled the 40mm fine and probably could have done more. My frame was a 56cm if it matters. I enjoyed the Americano but really wished it would have accepted 40-42mm tires in the rear. I am considering a Co-Motion Divide (50mm F&R) but due to an 8 month build time, will probably pass.
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Old 02-26-22, 07:47 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
I am considering a Co-Motion Divide (50mm F&R) but due to an 8 month build time, will probably pass.
Local to me..I thought I saw one recently.

This is at The Bike Doctor bike shop..good shop.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik...450889591.html

another, though maybe be a bit big
https://columbiamo.craigslist.org/bi...443864889.html

I remember another local one recently on FB that had S&S couplers, but it doesn't seem to be listed any longer. Price seemed fair to me & it was listed for quite a while.
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Old 02-26-22, 08:08 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Local to me..I thought I saw one recently.

This is at The Bike Doctor bike shop..good shop.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik...450889591.html

another, though maybe be a bit big
https://columbiamo.craigslist.org/bi...443864889.html

I remember another local one recently on FB that had S&S couplers, but it doesn't seem to be listed any longer. Price seemed fair to me & it was listed for quite a while.
Thanks! I should have mentioned that I would like a 52cm since as I age I find the shorter reach more pleasant. The 55cm Divide has a longer reach than the 56cm Americano.

Thanks for the thought though. I might start doing a nationwide Craigslist search.
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Old 02-26-22, 08:49 AM
  #39  
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john, you should also be able to put in specific searches in other used bike networks. As these are rare bikes, probably worth it also for trying to track yours down, one never knows.
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Old 02-26-22, 08:50 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
Thanks! I should have mentioned that I would like a 52cm since as I age I find the shorter reach more pleasant. The 55cm Divide has a longer reach than the 56cm Americano.

Thanks for the thought though. I might start doing a nationwide Craigslist search.
I thought a 55 vs 56 might be doable, but a 52..that is different. I did do a national CL search(via searchtempest) and the two I posted are all that are available nationally, at the moment. There were couple Americanos too, I think.

You might give the Bike Doctor a call. He's been a Co-Motion/Gunnar/Trek/some Cannondale dealer for quite a while. He may have something that isn't listed. I don't think he runs CL ads much. I've only seen a couple from him recently. Haven't been out there lately, his shop is a regular stop on a route that we ride (he's on a good trail).

I was also in Ben's Cycle in Milwaukee lately. He(Vince) carries Milwaukee Bikes. MB has a touring frame, nice steel tubing, made by Waterford Cycles. The 56cm frame has a 55cm top tube.
https://www.milwaukeebicycleco.com/m...gitive-20834/p

(edit: Co-Motion's Divide 52cm frame with a 55cm top tube..odd combo, seems very long for a 52)

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Old 02-26-22, 08:58 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
...
Thanks for the thought though. I might start doing a nationwide Craigslist search.
I assumed you already were to see if your stolen bike showed up.

And this one that Fishboat identified has pinion. But 12, not 18. I assume 18 is your preference.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik...450889591.html
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Old 02-26-22, 09:25 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I assumed you already were to see if your stolen bike showed up.

And this one that Fishboat identified has pinion. But 12, not 18. I assume 18 is your preference.
https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik...450889591.html
Yep, but depending on the costs involved, I think I could replace it. John
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Old 02-26-22, 09:26 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
john, you should also be able to put in specific searches in other used bike networks. As these are rare bikes, probably worth it also for trying to track yours down, one never knows.
I only know of a couple of used bike networks, mainly ProsCloset (mainly racing bikes). Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 02-26-22, 09:38 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
I thought a 55 vs 56 might be doable, but a 52..that is different. I did do a national CL search(via searchtempest) and the two I posted are all that are available nationally, at the moment. There were couple
(edit: Co-Motion's Divide 52cm frame with a 55cm top tube..odd combo, seems very long for a 52)
I 55cm would work (I would switch to something like Jones H-Bar Loop). Anyway, that is why I use BikeInsights.com. It allows you to compare frame geometry side by side: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geo...49040020299db4, You may need to play around with it a bit but I had a 56cm Americano compared to a 52cm Divide using "Align Ground". You have to reconfigure the tires sizes so both with 35mm tires for comparison. I know I can add larger tires to the Divide but wanted to see how the frames compared. I wish all manufactures would list all their bikes.
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Old 02-26-22, 09:58 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
I 55cm would work (I would switch to something like Jones H-Bar Loop). Anyway, that is why I use BikeInsights.com. It allows you to compare frame geometry side by side: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geo...49040020299db4, You may need to play around with it a bit but I had a 56cm Americano compared to a 52cm Divide using "Align Ground". You have to reconfigure the tires sizes so both with 35mm tires for comparison. I know I can add larger tires to the Divide but wanted to see how the frames compared. I wish all manufactures would list all their bikes.
I've compared many bikes on bikeinsights. Very useful tool and can be rather eye-opening at times when one tosses away the marketing buzz and just looks at comparative geometry of various bikes. Lots of stuff has changed over the years and lots of stuff hasn't.

I'll keep an eye open and let you know if anything interesting pops up.
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Old 02-26-22, 01:51 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by John N View Post
I only know of a couple of used bike networks, mainly ProsCloset (mainly racing bikes). Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Ive found a couple of used bikes on local craigslists in different regions (both found by friends and referred to me) , and did look at used fatbikes on something called Pinkbike, which seems to be more of a mountain bike thing in the States, and then also on another local thing called Kijiji (which might only be Canadian).

I reckon using the right keywords is the main thing, stuff like touring, igh, rohlof, all that sort of stuff, will just increase the chances of getting relevant listings to pop up.
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