Help an old tourer understand something
#26
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I for one will never be a "bike packer", not because it's not cool, but because there is no way in hell that I can swing my leg over that seat pack in order to mount the bike, as I can barely just clear my saddle now. I would have to lean the bike way over and step over the top tube which can't be fun. Ha
I have toured with a couple of individuals who "bike packed" and it seemed that they had every inch of bag space accounted for, such to the point when we stopped at a grocery store to pick up food for that evening's dinner, they had no where to stuff it, so a friend and I carried their food for them to the campground.
I think it's a great way to go if you're a minimalist, or off road, or you're race touring and want to be more aero. And I do appreciate all the new gear that's getting created for that group, where maybe I can eventually come to make use of some of it.
I’m using a mountain bike with suspension and bikepacking bags.
For pavement or even smooth dirt like this
I choose panniers. I prefer panniers but they just don’t work all that well when the going gets rough.
I don't tour on single track. I prefer the weight low and on the side even on rough gravel. I abandoned handlebar bags years ago.
I do bikepacking (original meaning) because it lets me go to places where most tourists never go.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#27
Senior Member
Meh. To me anytime you transport yourself and spend the night away it is all touring. Whether is months, or credit card touring, or going to a campground overnight, same same. What bike and how you wanna strap your load, also a big fat whatever.
This guy knows what I'm talking about:
This guy knows what I'm talking about:
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#28
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I for one will never be a "bike packer", not because it's not cool, but because there is no way in hell that I can swing my leg over that seat pack in order to mount the bike, as I can barely just clear my saddle now. I would have to lean the bike way over and step over the top tube which can't be fun. Ha
....
....
How to dismount a loaded tour bike?
And for my example, I used a horizontal top tube bike which makes it much harder.
#29
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Meh. To me anytime you transport yourself and spend the night away it is all touring. Whether is months, or credit card touring, or going to a campground overnight, same same. What bike and how you wanna strap your load, also a big fat whatever.
This guy knows what I'm talking about:
...
This guy knows what I'm talking about:
...
But, since he only has one wheel, maybe he was a uni-packer instead of a bikepacker?
He has racks, but no panniers on his single speed, so I would call that ___-packing, not ___-touring
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#30
Senior Member
Your photo of the Penny Farthing reminded me of a bikepacker I saw in Iceland nine years ago.
But, since he only has one wheel, maybe he was a uni-packer instead of a bikepacker?
He has racks, but no panniers on his single speed, so I would call that ___-packing, not ___-touring
But, since he only has one wheel, maybe he was a uni-packer instead of a bikepacker?
He has racks, but no panniers on his single speed, so I would call that ___-packing, not ___-touring
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#31
Senior Member
I don't have the flexibility to kick over the top tube. The cowboy mount with 4" pedal height boost is the only way I can do it.
I had no problem with panniers on Schofield Pass CO (yes, wider tires and suspension would have been nice!) Had road toured all the way from Canada and didn't want to bring a MTB just for one pass.
I did "ride" the entire pass, picking my way up slowly through the rubble. That said, I had to carry the bike across a lingering snowfield up high and come back for the bags. So yes, I actually did some "bikepacking"! Wouldn't want to ride westbound down it on a touring rig though.
Pictured below are old, discontinued "Kangaroo Baggs" panniers. Designed for the 90s MTB crowd to not bounce off. Previously posted at other threads but here it is again ...
Schofield Pass CO
I did "ride" the entire pass, picking my way up slowly through the rubble. That said, I had to carry the bike across a lingering snowfield up high and come back for the bags. So yes, I actually did some "bikepacking"! Wouldn't want to ride westbound down it on a touring rig though.
Pictured below are old, discontinued "Kangaroo Baggs" panniers. Designed for the 90s MTB crowd to not bounce off. Previously posted at other threads but here it is again ...
Schofield Pass CO
Last edited by BobG; 12-04-23 at 07:45 PM.
#32
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Noted, not disagreeing.
#33
Senior Member
I think it's the perception of some that in order to go bikepacking you must shun panniers at all costs. But more manufacturers are making small "gravel" panniers, and then there are the like of the aeroe spider rack and everything coming out of Tailfin.
I have moved over to Tailfin for everything on the rear of my bike (as well as a few of their other bags), and have restrap front harness/handlebar bag and a custom frame bag.
Prior to getting a Tailfin Aeropack and a selection of their panniers (5 litre mini and 22 litre), i jad a 15 litre saddlebag. But, my bike is only 46cm, so it needed to be packed just right so it didn't bounce off my rear wheel. And it got a bit time consuming packing/re-packing the saddlebag on trips. Enter the Tailfin- it is absolutely rock solid, doesn't move, rattle, sway, etc. I put my tent, cook set, and Microfiber towel in the aeropack and use the 5 litre mini panniers for my clothes (spare set of kit and extra layers on one side, sleeping/camp clothes in the other).
I have moved over to Tailfin for everything on the rear of my bike (as well as a few of their other bags), and have restrap front harness/handlebar bag and a custom frame bag.
Prior to getting a Tailfin Aeropack and a selection of their panniers (5 litre mini and 22 litre), i jad a 15 litre saddlebag. But, my bike is only 46cm, so it needed to be packed just right so it didn't bounce off my rear wheel. And it got a bit time consuming packing/re-packing the saddlebag on trips. Enter the Tailfin- it is absolutely rock solid, doesn't move, rattle, sway, etc. I put my tent, cook set, and Microfiber towel in the aeropack and use the 5 litre mini panniers for my clothes (spare set of kit and extra layers on one side, sleeping/camp clothes in the other).
#34
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When I tried using a rear rack offroad, the metal in the rack fatigued and broke. I'd be okay with using a metal rack offroad if I had some kind of guarantee that the rack wouldn't break. I do think bikepacking bags are set up so they're not bouncing and jostling around as much as panniers would be bouncing offroad.
#35
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Your photo of the Penny Farthing reminded me of a bikepacker I saw in Iceland nine years ago.
But, since he only has one wheel, maybe he was a uni-packer instead of a bikepacker?
He has racks, but no panniers on his single speed, so I would call that ___-packing, not ___-touring
But, since he only has one wheel, maybe he was a uni-packer instead of a bikepacker?
He has racks, but no panniers on his single speed, so I would call that ___-packing, not ___-touring
#36
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I stopped to see the sights and saw the unicycle leaning against the sign, snapped a couple photos. Then went to take a few photos of the scenery, when I came back to my bike the unicycle was gone. June 19, 2016 in Iceland. I never had a chance to see the rider.
#37
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When I tried using a rear rack offroad, the metal in the rack fatigued and broke. I'd be okay with using a metal rack offroad if I had some kind of guarantee that the rack wouldn't break. I do think bikepacking bags are set up so they're not bouncing and jostling around as much as panniers would be bouncing offroad.
That said, the bouncing around of a pannier off-road is going to put a lot of stress on the pannier hardware which is another point of failure. With all the warts that bikepacking gear has…and they have a lot of warts…they do well for their intended purpose. I like to say that bikepacking gear is the best of the bad solutions for off-road touring.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 12-05-23 at 11:14 AM.
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#38
Junior Member
I've installed an extra lower hook to my four ortlieb panniers (bike packers at the rear and sport packers up front) and two extra upper hooks each to the rear panniers).
I added neoprene tubing to the rack rods to which the panniers attach for a snug fit.
I also added some adhesive foam pads between pannier and rack wherever there was still some movement.
Probably doesn't do much for overall stress on the racks, but gets rid of percussive type stress and the rattles that go with it.
Ortlieb make it easy by selling extra parts.
One day I'll get a steel rack, when I can afford it. I'm very limited in choices for the front since I have to be able to remove the front wheel to park my bike in my appartment stairwell, not to mention that I have a suspension fork.
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#39
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Some things can be done to reduce the bouncing around.
I've installed an extra lower hook to my four ortlieb panniers (bike packers at the rear and sport packers up front) and two extra upper hooks each to the rear panniers).
I added neoprene tubing to the rack rods to which the panniers attach for a snug fit.
I also added some adhesive foam pads between pannier and rack wherever there was still some movement.
I've installed an extra lower hook to my four ortlieb panniers (bike packers at the rear and sport packers up front) and two extra upper hooks each to the rear panniers).
I added neoprene tubing to the rack rods to which the panniers attach for a snug fit.
I also added some adhesive foam pads between pannier and rack wherever there was still some movement.
Probably doesn't do much for overall stress on the racks, but gets rid of percussive type stress and the rattles that go with it.
Ortlieb make it easy by selling extra parts.
Ortlieb make it easy by selling extra parts.
One day I'll get a steel rack, when I can afford it. I'm very limited in choices for the front since I have to be able to remove the front wheel to park my bike in my appartment stairwell, not to mention that I have a suspension fork.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#40
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Since we are getting down to the details of Ortlieb hooks, on my front panniers on a Tara rack, the Tara has unusually large diameter tubing. And I made it worse by putting plastic hose over the tubing to prevent chaffing. So I made some aluminum bar stock hooks for the lower hooks, 3/4 X 1/8 inch aluminum and stretched some innertube rubber over the aluminum.
In the photo above, that was after two weeks of touring and the electrical tape I put over the hose to keep it in place was coming unglued, next time will put some small zip ties over the tape. Slit the hose lengthwise so I can put it over the tube.
One of my DIY hooks is below.
In the photo above, that was after two weeks of touring and the electrical tape I put over the hose to keep it in place was coming unglued, next time will put some small zip ties over the tape. Slit the hose lengthwise so I can put it over the tube.
One of my DIY hooks is below.
#41
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Photos photos photos! You can never have too many photos! Keep 'em coming.
#42
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Cripple Creek. Trip detailed in Gold Fever. Rode from Colorado Springs to Cripple Creek to Cañon City back to Colorado Springs via Cripple Creek.
A trip into deep south eastern Colorado. Picture Canyon is almost to the Colorado/Kansas/Oklahoma line. In fact, the Colorado/Oklahoma border is only about a mile south of this point. I was going to ride from Picture Canyon to Carrizo Canyon which is about 40 miles. Unfortunately, the “trail” is a suggestion at best and it took way too long to find my way out of Picture Canyon. Will try it again someday.
Hagerman Pass. Rode from Frisco, CO to Leadville to Glenwood Springs.
Weston Pass. Fairplay to Buena Vista.
Crested Butte. Gunnison to Crested Butte to Carbondale to Glenwood Springs.
Rollins Pass. Winter Park to Boulder.
Cowboy Trail in Nebraska.
My very first “bikepacking trip” although we didn’t call it that then. 1984. Rode from Rollinsville over to Winter Park to Dillion to Woodland Park and back to Denver.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#43
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Great topic. CYCLINGABOUT has a decent YouTube on this…
#44
Junior Member
I can't get my head around having so much weight above the wheels in the bikepacking setup. I get that any lower down and you'll hit rocks and roots and stuff, but in tough, narrow conditions where nimble control is paramount the last thing you want is a high center of gravity.
I did many trial day runs with my 4-pannier, 1-handlebar bar bag equipped montain bike with a lot of weight in the panniers and the bike rode pretty well (bike path and mostly smooth gravel). I actually preferred the slower steering up front. Before setting out on a real run, I added maybe 8 lbs of food and a couple of light things on top of my rear rack not thinking that the extra weight would make that much of a difference overall being a small percentage increase in total weight. When I set out I couldn't believe how bad the back swayed. It was awful and disheartening. I admit I was carrying way too much overall and will be paring down quite a bit, but that weight placed above the wheels made a huge difference.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
I did many trial day runs with my 4-pannier, 1-handlebar bar bag equipped montain bike with a lot of weight in the panniers and the bike rode pretty well (bike path and mostly smooth gravel). I actually preferred the slower steering up front. Before setting out on a real run, I added maybe 8 lbs of food and a couple of light things on top of my rear rack not thinking that the extra weight would make that much of a difference overall being a small percentage increase in total weight. When I set out I couldn't believe how bad the back swayed. It was awful and disheartening. I admit I was carrying way too much overall and will be paring down quite a bit, but that weight placed above the wheels made a huge difference.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
#45
Senior Member
I can't get my head around having so much weight above the wheels in the bikepacking setup. I get that any lower down and you'll hit rocks and roots and stuff, but in tough, narrow conditions where nimble control is paramount the last thing you want is a high center of gravity.
I did many trial day runs with my 4-pannier, 1-handlebar bar bag equipped montain bike with a lot of weight in the panniers and the bike rode pretty well (bike path and mostly smooth gravel). I actually preferred the slower steering up front. Before setting out on a real run, I added maybe 8 lbs of food and a couple of light things on top of my rear rack not thinking that the extra weight would make that much of a difference overall being a small percentage increase in total weight. When I set out I couldn't believe how bad the back swayed. It was awful and disheartening. I admit I was carrying way too much overall and will be paring down quite a bit, but that weight placed above the wheels made a huge difference.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
I did many trial day runs with my 4-pannier, 1-handlebar bar bag equipped montain bike with a lot of weight in the panniers and the bike rode pretty well (bike path and mostly smooth gravel). I actually preferred the slower steering up front. Before setting out on a real run, I added maybe 8 lbs of food and a couple of light things on top of my rear rack not thinking that the extra weight would make that much of a difference overall being a small percentage increase in total weight. When I set out I couldn't believe how bad the back swayed. It was awful and disheartening. I admit I was carrying way too much overall and will be paring down quite a bit, but that weight placed above the wheels made a huge difference.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
#46
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Some interesting posts here and completely agree about not wanting panniers when riding trails for clearance, but what about those who never leave the road?
Is there a purpose or is it just fashion?
Is there a purpose or is it just fashion?
#47
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I can't get my head around having so much weight above the wheels in the bikepacking setup. I get that any lower down and you'll hit rocks and roots and stuff, but in tough, narrow conditions where nimble control is paramount the last thing you want is a high center of gravity.
The faint path is the established trail.
You can see the trail and marker below. Behind me, the trail just kind of disappeared.
And the picture I originally posted was the actual trail. I eventually found that I could follow cow paths and get more of where I needed to get to. The fork bags dragged everywhere and eventually wore a hole in them. While they were bad, panniers would have been worse.
I did many trial day runs with my 4-pannier, 1-handlebar bar bag equipped montain bike with a lot of weight in the panniers and the bike rode pretty well (bike path and mostly smooth gravel). I actually preferred the slower steering up front. Before setting out on a real run, I added maybe 8 lbs of food and a couple of light things on top of my rear rack not thinking that the extra weight would make that much of a difference overall being a small percentage increase in total weight. When I set out I couldn't believe how bad the back swayed. It was awful and disheartening. I admit I was carrying way too much overall and will be paring down quite a bit, but that weight placed above the wheels made a huge difference.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
So the bikepacking setup may be necessary to be able to get to where you wouln't be able to otherwise, but handling must be awful.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#48
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That’s the point where it gets silly. You are trading a reasonable low center of gravity, ease of packing, ease of moving the luggage off the bike, ease of mounting the panniers on the bike, and improved handling for a bit better aerodynamics in a situation where you really don’t need better aerodynamics. If you need to go that much faster, why not just have someone follow you around in a sag wagon. As I say about most large group sponsored “tours”, they are too much de France and not enough Tour. It’s not a race.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#49
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Location: Madison, WI
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Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.
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Their bikes were Ritchey Break Away frames, so they could pack the bikes in small cases. This trip for them would have cost $300 more each if they had to pay the oversize fees that Delta charged at that time if they did not have coupled bikes.
My point is that not only was their luggage minimalist, the packed bike luggage was minimalist at the airport too.
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And I know a gal that was trying to figure out how to set up her bike for a week long credit card tour, she asked me about front panniers. I suggested she try the anything cages on her fork instead since she was looking at only a tiny volume. That is what she did. No racks on her bike. She later ditched the bikepacking saddlebag and went with a Carradice Nelson Longflap saddle bag.
Speaking of the Nelson Longflap, someone on this forum has toured with very minimalist camping gear, I think it is Nun?
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Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 794
Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte
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Met this fellow last year as he was riding cross country in about 6 weeks, a healthy pace. He stuck mostly to asphalt but was using bikepacking bags.