Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Help an old tourer understand something

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Help an old tourer understand something

Old 12-02-23, 04:01 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MarcusT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: NE Italy
Posts: 1,593
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 330 Posts
Help an old tourer understand something

Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
MarcusT is offline  
Likes For MarcusT:
Old 12-02-23, 05:54 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 11,810
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1223 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 549 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT
Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
It does kind of seem like there is an avoid racks/panniers at all cost attitude with some riders. I never got it, but it is their choice. I see folks carrying more gear than I did when I was still using large panniers and not packing what I consider particularly light. I don't really see any real advantage to some of the setups. Folks can pack how they like though. I have done some pretty unorthodox packing methods myself. That said, even when fairly light sub 20 pounds of gear I have sometimes still used a pair of panniers.

I think for many the big thing is avoiding using racks. That may be because their bike doesn't easily support one, because they believe there will be more sway off road, or just to be "fashionable". Also off road there are clearance from brush/rocks issues with big/low panniers.
staehpj1 is offline  
Likes For staehpj1:
Old 12-02-23, 05:54 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
theblackbullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 780

Bikes: I don't even

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked 190 Times in 76 Posts
I think bikepackers are drawn to the aesthetic as much as the activity. I've always found racks and panniers to be easier to use and more practical all around. I do have a 14L saddle bag that I really enjoy throwing on the back of my "race bike" for short trips though.
theblackbullet is offline  
Likes For theblackbullet:
Old 12-02-23, 06:52 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,801

Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 665 Post(s)
Liked 698 Times in 413 Posts
I agree with all the above. One thing I began to take note of as I lightened my load was the volume/weight ratio of a pack. A larger, simple pack without pockets or zippers is best. I canned my handlebar bag for that reason. So I wonder at the multitude of small, zippered packs all over the frame. They're expensive, too. But I also agree, they can spend their money and pack as they like. A bunch of young people are getting out into the wild. And it actually does look pretty cool.
andrewclaus is offline  
Likes For andrewclaus:
Old 12-02-23, 07:45 AM
  #5  
Hooked on Touring
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,853
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 91 Posts
And backpacks.
Backpacks raise your center of gravity and make you sweat like a pig.
I mean - it's kinda like back in the 1970s.
Nobody would be caught dead with a transistor radio
when you could have a cool 8-track player.
jamawani is offline  
Likes For jamawani:
Old 12-02-23, 07:58 AM
  #6  
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,222

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6118 Post(s)
Liked 4,038 Times in 2,294 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT
Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
10 L is kind of small in the bike packing world. 14 to 16 L is closer to what is mainstream. Loading the handlebars and frame isn’t something that happened after the seatbag came out but was part of the whole system all along. Fork bags and some kind of rear bag are more recent developments as people have discovered that the minimalist way is too painful.

That said, bike packing bags have their place, however that place isn’t on the road, in my opinion. Bikepacking bags solve the problem of touring in rough roads but are of little utility on smooth pavement. They work better than panniers when the going gets rough. I’ve used panniers in the past (1985) and they were less than ideal, especially the panniers of that era. The Nashbar panniers with shock cord or, worse, spring tensioners on the bags and simple hooks were prone to flying off if you hit even a rather small bump. I had to chase panniers down hills many times.



The age of off-road touring with trailers was short lived…thankfully…no problem with losing luggage but…damn! They were heavy. All of them pushed the rear wheel in odd directions and some were very adept at lifting the rear wheel during braking. That’s not something that you really want on a rocky steep downhill.

DSCN0027 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

You aren’t wrong about bikepacking bags making the bike top heavy. When bikepacking…true bikepacking not riding a road bike with bikepacking bags…, I just accept that I’m going to end up on the ground at some point.


Since the bags are well attached to the bike, the yard sale isn’t too large.



Bikepacking bags are good enough for a nice short adventure of up to about 5 days. I can carry enough freeze-dry meals to last that long. More importantly, I can tolerate freeze-dry meals for about that long…as long as they don’t have zucchini in them. Trust me, you don’t want to eat freeze-dried zucchini!



For longer trips where I actually have to cook food, bikepacking gear is less desirable. I tried a trip on the Cowboy Trail in Nebraska. I chose the mountain bike because the trail is softer. But the load was equivalent to want I carry in panniers because of the need to actually cook something and it just wasn’t all the pleasant to ride. I managed about 100 miles before I bagged the ride as a bad job.



1500 miles on this setup is dead easy. Plus it is way easier to pack and/or move around off the bike. Bikepacking bags are odd shapes. Nothing fits in a logical manner because you have to put something where there is space. Your fuel canister may be in one bag but the stove is in a different bag. Cooking utensils are in a fork leg bag but the cookware is in the frame bag and the food is in the micropanniers. Every night is an exercise in unpacking and repacking.

If you have to move the bike around without the bags…loading on buses for example…carrying 7 bags of different shapes that don’t have handles and don’t nest together well is only slightly less difficult than dealing with a trailer.



When I see some of the people with bikes with overloaded bikepacking bags doing road tours, I just shake my head. There is a better way of carrying stuff on a better bike.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!




Last edited by cyccommute; 12-02-23 at 08:06 AM.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 09:00 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,014

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3381 Post(s)
Liked 1,404 Times in 1,100 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT
Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
My empty Ortlieb Backrollers and Front Rollers, plus a Tubus Logo EVO rear rack and a Tubus Tara front rack weigh a total of 5.21 kg, or 11.49 pounds. That is empty weight before I added the weight of a granola bar. That has a capacity of 65 liters of volume, or one pound of luggage per 5.7 liters of capacity (apology for mixing units).

If I skip the front panniers, then the total weight of the Logo EVO and Backrollers (skip a rack top bag) is 3 kg, or 6.6 pounds for a volume of 40 liters. That would be 6.1 liters of capacity per pound of luggage.

(I skipped adding my handlebar bag to this discussion, I use it on all tours and often use on longer day rides. But, I think most bike tourists do not use a large handlebar bag like I do.)

I am not sure what the total volume capacity is for bikepacking using: bags in anything cages on a front fork, a large commonly used frame bag, a large bikepacking saddle bag, and a front harness and dry bag. If it is less than 40 liters, that is less volume than a pair of backrollers. And I have no idea what those things weigh. But I can see where if you pack really light that you could save some luggage weight.

I am sure cost comes into the equation, but I am citing the Tubus and Ortlieb because I have owned those for over a decade, they are not inexpensive. I have no clue about bikepacking stuff.

If I did a credit card tour, I would try to get by with a Carradice Camper or Carradice Nelson Long Flap, plus a frame bag, those would add up to less volume than my Backrollers but would save a lot of weight on the bike. And if you care about aerodynamics, that combination of bags would be more aero than panniers.

Bike geometry comes into play too. But I virtually never hear anyone saying that a particular bike has a better geometry for panniers (rear loading) than it does for bike packing (more front loading), or the reverse of that. So, while front vs rear loading of a bike is important to handling for different geometries, it seems to be the first item that gets neglected in these considerations.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 09:44 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,741

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3137 Post(s)
Liked 1,963 Times in 1,122 Posts
[QUOTE=staehpj1;23088329]It does kind of seem like there is an avoid racks/panniers at all cost attitude with some riders. I never got it, but it is their choice.QUOTE]

The bikes they are using typically do not have eyelets brazed on to mount racks, thus the move to strap on bags. They are often off road using mt bikes of some form with no eyelets, or possibly a dedicated bikepacking bike which might just be a hard tail with no suspension fork.

As to the OP's questions, the types of large rear duffel, large front duffel, internal frame bag and maybe bags installed on the forks, generally do not have the carrying capacity of what an old fashioned cyclo tourist would carry with front and rear panniers installed on racks. Thus they use lighter and more minimalists gear all ibn orders to jam in food and water. Not unusual to be wearing a medium sized backpack as well. Food storage capacity is the limiting factor.
Steve B. is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 10:04 AM
  #9  
buy my bikes
 
mrv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,797

Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times in 244 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT
Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
+1 on the "it's an aesthetics" thing comments.
I will counter that panniers are a bit of a pain with AMTRAK - out of Ann Arbor and some of the smaller stations where you don't get a full cargo car to roll on. But then a full frame bag makes shouldering impossible.

https://bikepacking.com/bikepacking-101/setups/
- the very first set up shown uses a rear rack. I like the BikePacking website quite a bit - enough to pay for the very expensive twice a year periodical / journal. It's really well done.
In practice I stick with dirt roads and MUPs for cyclo touring. It truly drives me nuts to hear people I'm touring with say they are "bike packing" when we're on a rail trail and about 1/3 of the people have a chase vehicle carrying all their stuff. my humble-brag: i road to the event and road home from the event, making it a 4 day weekend of CYCLO TOURING! ... or bike camping ... or just touring - when ya got zero % single track, you're not BikePacking.

I've only done one multi day trek that involved lots of single track, and i had rear panniers - a bit of a pain on the long pushes up rocks and roots...
mrv is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 11:10 AM
  #10  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,144
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2717 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 774 Posts
cycco has the most experience of any of us here doing off road tours, trying out all kinds of packing variations--which, btw, I meant to mention a while back when you posted similar shots--it's neat how you try different setups for different situations and a lot of fun to see the progression throughout the years. I too enjoy trying out different setups, and part of the fun is just switching out things and seeing how it works for the specifics of a given trip.

bottom line, bikepacking setups work better for all the reasons.

Over the last couple of years in bikepacking, using small rear racks and small panniers has had a clear come back, the advantages of having more room and or easier access has it places, yet bikes are still better suited to hike a bike stuff and passing through narrow areas with "micro panniers".
I've even had perfectly fine success using my smaller arkel rear panniers with light, bulky things in them, and heavier stuff on top of rack and in a handlebar harness, and this has held up great on rough surfaces and manhandling the bike still easily enough over stuff and through narrow sections.

In this photo, the panniers looks heavy, but they just have clothes in them, so didn't move around too much over rough stuff, important given their thin construction.
I also didn't travel with my fork cages and small frame bag (flew with my bike in more traditional pannier mode, but brought some bikepacking stuff for this section of my trip) so I could have easily put the heavier stuff, tools, kitchen stuff, onto the fork and frame, freeing up more space for spare food etc.


djb is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 11:50 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,014

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3381 Post(s)
Liked 1,404 Times in 1,100 Posts
[QUOTE=Steve B.;23088495]
Originally Posted by staehpj1
...
. Not unusual to be wearing a medium sized backpack as well.
....
Thanks for mentioning that, the majority of bikepackers that I have seen were wearing a backpack, but virtually nobody that I see with panniers does that.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 12:22 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 38,826
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18218 Post(s)
Liked 15,004 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by jamawani
And backpacks.
Backpacks raise your center of gravity and make you sweat like a pig.
I mean - it's kinda like back in the 1970s.
Nobody would be caught dead with a transistor radio
when you could have a cool 8-track player.
I take a transistor and a large sum of money to spend.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 12-02-23, 12:44 PM
  #13  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 127 Times in 78 Posts
Originally Posted by MarcusT
Greetings all
I understand how "bikepacking" has taken off. The minimalist baggage with out the use of racks or panniers.Yet as time continues, I see more and more bikepackers keep the 10 litre saddle bag, yet have heavily loaded handlebars, forks and frame, where it looks like if the rider brakes too hard they'll do an olly. Seems, in order to call themselves bikepackers, they must avoid rear panniers at all costs.
Or is it just my perception?
I think it's the perception of some that in order to go bikepacking you must shun panniers at all costs. But more manufacturers are making small "gravel" panniers, and then there are the like of the aeroe spider rack and everything coming out of Tailfin.
I have moved over to Tailfin for everything on the rear of my bike (as well as a few of their other bags), and have restrap front harness/handlebar bag and a custom frame bag.
Prior to getting a Tailfin Aeropack and a selection of their panniers (5 litre mini and 22 litre), i jad a 15 litre saddlebag. But, my bike is only 46cm, so it needed to be packed just right so it didn't bounce off my rear wheel. And it got a bit time consuming packing/re-packing the saddlebag on trips. Enter the Tailfin- it is absolutely rock solid, doesn't move, rattle, sway, etc. I put my tent, cook set, and Microfiber towel in the aeropack and use the 5 litre mini panniers for my clothes (spare set of kit and extra layers on one side, sleeping/camp clothes in the other). And I still have full use of my dropper post as well. I have the 22 litre panniers for commuting when I need to take tools, laptop, steelies, etc for work as well as for taking my son bikepacking (he's a toddler). I put lightweight but bulky items into it (his sleeping pad, bag, some of his clothes, my clothes, etc), with the rest of his bits going into his trailer (toys, milk, nappies, etc).

Before i bought the 22 litre panniers.

Full set-up from this summer. Ive changed a couple of bits sone then
rivers is offline  
Likes For rivers:
Old 12-02-23, 12:55 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,741

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3137 Post(s)
Liked 1,963 Times in 1,122 Posts
[QUOTE=Tourist in MSN;23088609]
Originally Posted by Steve B.

Thanks for mentioning that, the majority of bikepackers that I have seen were wearing a backpack, but virtually nobody that I see with panniers does that.
Capacity of the bags is the driving issue. A pair of Ortleib front and rear rack mounted panniers can carry 65 liters of gear, where with a bikepacking setup, as a large under seat duffle as well as round bar bag is around 30 liters. Add a frame triangle bag for another 15 liters, maybe. Really big difference in what you can carry. Also consider that typically bikepacking was intended for off-road backcountry type trips where panniers on a touring bike was not the ideal setup, but there were also usually fewer opportunities to re-supply as you do on a road centric self supported tour. Thus the amount of food you carry limits how many days you can be out there, thus moving to very minimalist gear for shelter, bag and clothing yields you more room for food and more days riding.

Last edited by Steve B.; 12-02-23 at 02:33 PM.
Steve B. is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 02:11 PM
  #15  
Hooked on Touring
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,853
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 91 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
I take a transistor and a large sum of money to spend.
But whatever happened to your 8-track? ;-)
jamawani is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 03:31 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 11,810
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1223 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 549 Posts
Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN

Thanks for mentioning that, the majority of bikepackers that I have seen were wearing a backpack, but virtually nobody that I see with panniers does that.
Somehow that quote got attributed to me due to a mangled previous quote, but yes. I agree that you seldom see folks with panniers and a backpack.

I will say that after having used a little one to carry just a few things that I want to keep with me, I find it quite nice. I try to limit it to maybe 3 or 4 pounds with the exception of short hops here and there where I might need to tote extra water or groceries. For example the fairly rare example where I might have no resupply for a full day/night on a road tour. It is also real handy if I am making a run to the store from camp. For ultralight touring the 3-4 pounds is a significant portion of the load, for heavier touring it would be more about having a few items handy when you leave the bike. I might consider one for a pannier tour if I do that again.
staehpj1 is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 08:02 PM
  #17  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,497

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Liked 1,716 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rivers
I think it's the perception of some that in order to go bikepacking you must shun panniers at all costs.
One of the travelog writers @ bikepacking.com apologized to her readers for using panniers.

Fred Birchmore, 'round the world 1935~36:



I like quality, purpose-driven gear, but...Mr. Birchmore wrapped his gear in a canvas tarp, tied it to the rack of his Reinhart utility cycle, and headed out.

Last edited by tcs; 12-02-23 at 08:09 PM.
tcs is offline  
Likes For tcs:
Old 12-02-23, 08:29 PM
  #18  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,144
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2717 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times in 774 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs
One of the travelog writers @ bikepacking.com apologized to her readers for using panniers.

Fred Birchmore, 'round the world 1935~36:



I like quality, purpose-driven gear, but...Mr. Birchmore wrapped his gear in a canvas tarp, tied it to the rack of his Reinhart utility cycle, and headed out.
cool story.
worth the read here:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...world-1462409/

as for apologizing for panniers, I'll have to see what was written in that regard. It certainly touches on the view that panniers are only for us old friggin old farts, being old fashioned, and while I totally get the whole bikepacking thing, its fun as hell, like I said earlier, there's very much a return to smaller panniers and such to facilitate carrying stuff--but the main ethos of carrying less **** still stands, and thats a good thing, and I get it to a certain point.
djb is offline  
Likes For djb:
Old 12-02-23, 09:48 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
It certainly touches on the view that panniers are only for us old friggin old farts, being old fashioned, and while I totally get the whole bikepacking thing, its fun as hell, like I said earlier, there's very much a return to smaller panniers and such to facilitate carrying stuff--but the main ethos of carrying less **** still stands, and thats a good thing, and I get it to a certain point.
Age certainly has something to do with it.
I used to sleep on top of mountains with only a 1/2" closed cell pad under my sleeping bag directly on rock. And I slept well.
I now get sore on an 18" thick plush mattress.
I cut a fairly thick closed cell pad just long enough to go under my shoulders and hips which fits inside a rear pannier (like a liner, so doesn't take up mush space).
That and a remarkably small 1 lb 3" thick air mattress. Together it's sort of comfortable. The pad is mostly for heat retention.
Paul_P is offline  
Likes For Paul_P:
Old 12-02-23, 11:08 PM
  #20  
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,222

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6118 Post(s)
Liked 4,038 Times in 2,294 Posts
Originally Posted by mrv
+1 on the "it's an aesthetics" thing comments.
I will counter that panniers are a bit of a pain with AMTRAK - out of Ann Arbor and some of the smaller stations where you don't get a full cargo car to roll on. But then a full frame bag makes shouldering impossible.
That’s one of the biggest problems I have with bikepacking bags. My state has a bus system that I can take to most any place in the state. I just put my bike on the front and off we go. The problem is that I have to remove the bags from the bike before they will let me put it on the rack. I can leave on the frame bag (most of the time) but that’s only small blessing. With this bike, I had to remove the handlebar bag, the seat bag, the gas tank and the panniers. Add in a helmet and a Camelbak (yes, I wear a backpack…even on road tours) and that’s a whole lot of juggling.


With this configuration…including the Camelbak…the two fork leg bags made the bus problem even harder to deal with. Much more than just a little more difficult.




I've only done one multi day trek that involved lots of single track, and i had rear panniers - a bit of a pain on the long pushes up rocks and roots...
While riding, the bikepacking bags work really well. They are tight to the bike and, for the most part, out of the way. I would not do a downtube bag like this one again as it hit the wheel on hard impacts.


The load is still too high and the nightly complete unpack/repack was a royal pain but they do work better than panniers for rough road travel.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 12-03-23, 02:40 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Thailand..........Nakhon Nowhere
Posts: 3,642

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1049 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times in 224 Posts
Originally Posted by jamawani
But whatever happened to your 8-track? ;-)
that went with the gremlin when mr. moneybags upgraded to a pacer!
saddlesores is offline  
Likes For saddlesores:
Old 12-03-23, 02:37 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 275 Posts
It takes me a couple of days to remember where I put everything, even though I try to use the same system each tour. That is with four panniers, a tent and sleeping bag. My usual load is about 36 lb. That includes tent, Sbag, stove, pots, etc. some food, clothes, tools and cell phone. If I were going credit card, I could probably save 10-15 lb. but would take more clothing. If I were going camping in a dry, bug free area (e.g. California) I could save a couple of pounds by leaving the tent at home.
Pratt is offline  
Old 12-03-23, 08:14 PM
  #23  
Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
 
john m flores's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 693

Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 681 Times in 324 Posts
1. Even smaller panniers can get hung up on a rock or branch when navigating singletrack
2. Panniers tend to make an inordinate amount of noise when bumping along a trail
3. Panniers open up the temptation to overpack.

Bikepacking bags certainly have their negatives but I appreciate folks trying other ways. One thing I've observed over the last couple of years in the bikepacking world is the adoption of small racks and small panniers in addition to framebags and other bikepacking bags. I see it as a correction away from the no-pannier ethos that's been pervasive for a while and a recognition that panniers can be useful.
john m flores is offline  
Likes For john m flores:
Old 12-04-23, 10:35 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,854
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times in 188 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute



.
I for one will never be a "bike packer", not because it's not cool, but because there is no way in hell that I can swing my leg over that seat pack in order to mount the bike, as I can barely just clear my saddle now. I would have to lean the bike way over and step over the top tube which can't be fun. Ha

I have toured with a couple of individuals who "bike packed" and it seemed that they had every inch of bag space accounted for, such to the point when we stopped at a grocery store to pick up food for that evening's dinner, they had no where to stuff it, so a friend and I carried their food for them to the campground.

I think it's a great way to go if you're a minimalist, or off road, or you're race touring and want to be more aero. And I do appreciate all the new gear that's getting created for that group, where maybe I can eventually come to make use of some of it.
robow is offline  
Old 12-04-23, 11:40 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked 103 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by robow
I for one will never be a "bike packer", not because it's not cool, but because there is no way in hell that I can swing my leg over that seat pack in order to mount the bike ...
At 5'5" a high seat bag would be out of the question for me also. The only way I can mount a bike is cowboy style. Left foot on the pedal for a 4" boost, swing the right leg over from the rear. Same for dismount.

I don't tour on single track. I prefer the weight low and on the side even on rough gravel. I abandoned handlebar bags years ago.
BobG is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.