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Pinion? If so, P1.18 or C1.12?

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Pinion? If so, P1.18 or C1.12?

Old 05-25-24, 02:36 PM
  #76  
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Well, it has to be a P1.18. Even so, I augment it with a CS-RK3 on the back in order to obtain a few extra low gears.
I've used this setup for a year and I'm very happy with it.

Pinion: bombproof, reliable, low maintenance, expensive
Derailleur: cheap, flexible
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Old 05-25-24, 06:04 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Xavier65
Well, it has to be a P1.18. Even so, I augment it with a CS-RK3 on the back in order to obtain a few extra low gears.
I've used this setup for a year and I'm very happy with it.

Pinion: bombproof, reliable, low maintenance, expensive
Derailleur: cheap, flexible
So is the CS-RK3 (IGH) direct drive in high gear, so low and middle are both reductions, or is middle gear direct drive? If the latter, you only get one additional low gear. Either way though, if you run the rear in direct drive 99% of the time, it should get zero wear except for the wheel bearings, assuming the direct drive is a dog clutch that locks the whole unit, not just locking the planet gears and driving through the locked teeth of them.
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Old 05-26-24, 04:19 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
So is the CS-RK3 (IGH) direct drive in high gear, so low and middle are both reductions, or is middle gear direct drive? If the latter, you only get one additional low gear. Either way though, if you run the rear in direct drive 99% of the time, it should get zero wear except for the wheel bearings, assuming the direct drive is a dog clutch that locks the whole unit, not just locking the planet gears and driving through the locked teeth of them.
Direct drive is 2nd gear. Therefore, I find that a 1:1 ratio between Pinion chainring and rear cog (30T/30T) gives an 'overdrive' top gear where you can keep up with the pedals on >50kph descents, but gives low 'granny' gears for 7-15% tarmac ascents. I do not recommend the CS-RK3 for off-road ascents greater than 7%. It's not strong enough. :-(

So, generally, the IGH is in direct drive, 2nd gear most of the time. High gear is for significant descent >45kph (Pinion high gear not high enough), and low gear is for significant ascent >7% (Pinion low gear not low enough).

Compared to the standard ratio (30T/26T), with a 1:1 drive ratio (30T/30T), the RK3 effectively gives one extra high gear 19, and three extra low gears 0,-1,-2.
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Old 05-26-24, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Xavier65
Well, it has to be a P1.18. Even so, I augment it with a CS-RK3 on the back in order to obtain a few extra low gears.
I've used this setup for a year and I'm very happy with it.

Pinion: bombproof, reliable, low maintenance, expensive
Derailleur: cheap, flexible
Is that hub essentially the same as a Sram Dual Drive? I have one of those on my folder. I can't remember when Sram discontinued them, but it has been quite a while.

If that is comparable, is the Sturmey Archer comparable to the Dual Drive for quality? Better? Worse?

***

Back to the topic of the thread, I would assume that a new Pinion bike would be through axle, not a 135mm solid axle type of frame. The op wants belt, not chain drive.
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Old 05-26-24, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I would assume that a new Pinion bike would be through axle, not a 135mm solid axle type of frame. The op wants belt, not chain drive.
You can fit a Gates belt sprocket on a CS-RK3 no problem.
And some bikes (Maxx.de) use modular rear dropouts, so you can have a choice of through axle or solid axle.
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Old 05-27-24, 02:55 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Is that hub essentially the same as a Sram Dual Drive? I have one of those on my folder. I can't remember when Sram discontinued them, but it has been quite a while.

If that is comparable, is the Sturmey Archer comparable to the Dual Drive for quality? Better? Worse?

***

Back to the topic of the thread, I would assume that a new Pinion bike would be through axle, not a 135mm solid axle type of frame. The op wants belt, not chain drive.
Depends. I'm not an expert. Sturmey-Archer and Sachs/SRAM both made 3-speed IGHs (among many others), and the SRAM Dual Drive also has external derailleur gears, but I've also heard in recent months that Sturmey Archer also makes a hybrid hub like that (currently now owned by Sun Race and produced in Taiwan), and I think many decades ago as well.

Sachs IGHs (which became SRAM) had a reputation of smooth gears for a bit lower friction in the reduction and overdrive, compared to some other IGHs; I don't know if that quality was maintained after SRAM ownership or not. The only Sachs IGH hub that was problematic in quality and durability that I know of, was the Sachs Elan/SRAM Spectro 12 speed, which was also a good deal heavier than the more modern Rohloff 14 Speedhub.

This wiki shows the Sachs/SRAM 3x7 discontinued in 2000, but I thought they were also made in 3x8 at least 5 years later but could be wrong:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hub_gears
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Old 05-27-24, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Depends. I'm not an expert. Sturmey-Archer and Sachs/SRAM both made 3-speed IGHs (among many others), and the SRAM Dual Drive also has external derailleur gears, but I've also heard in recent months that Sturmey Archer also makes a hybrid hub like that (currently now owned by Sun Race and produced in Taiwan), and I think many decades ago as well.

Sachs IGHs (which became SRAM) had a reputation of smooth gears for a bit lower friction in the reduction and overdrive, compared to some other IGHs; I don't know if that quality was maintained after SRAM ownership or not. The only Sachs IGH hub that was problematic in quality and durability that I know of, was the Sachs Elan/SRAM Spectro 12 speed, which was also a good deal heavier than the more modern Rohloff 14 Speedhub.

This wiki shows the Sachs/SRAM 3x7 discontinued in 2000, but I thought they were also made in 3x8 at least 5 years later but could be wrong:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_hub_gears
So you do not own or have experience with either of them?
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Old 05-27-24, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Welcome, you are well known in these parts already.
Seeing the word "Newbie" next to Peter J White is quite a shock . Welcome, Peter!
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Old 05-27-24, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeBaby
Seeing the word "Newbie" next to Peter J White is quite a shock . Welcome, Peter!
The newbie rating did not shock me, that comes with minimal posting. But that was his first post. And looking closer, joined this month. I would have expected a "joined" date of years ago.

That said, most major retailers and manufacturers rarely post on this forum. If I was a bike business owner, I would want to stay incognito here.
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Old 05-27-24, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
So you do not own or have experience with either of them?
I have personal history with one of the entities. I also had brief ownership of a 3x7. And SAs and Shimanos in my youth and serviced both. But that doesn't bias me for or against either in terms of durability, I think the mass of data online outweighs that. I actually trust the experiences of those who have used both long term. The friction comment was based on published test results of various IGHs. I'd actually like to know the opinion of Aaron Goss (IGH repair) on durability of all brands, he probably knows more than anyone, but I can understand completely his not wanting to publish that.
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Old 05-29-24, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
The newbie rating did not shock me, that comes with minimal posting. But that was his first post. And looking closer, joined this month. I would have expected a "joined" date of years ago.

That said, most major retailers and manufacturers rarely post on this forum. If I was a bike business owner, I would want to stay incognito here.
Many years ago I was subscribed to a "Touring" list that was managed by Alex Wetmore. I have no idea if this is the same list. I had to unsubscribe because our business was getting so busy I just didn't have the time to read the postings. Now the business is a bit more relaxed so I have time to be more social.
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