Thank you for the good reading. BTW I usually carry a small backpack in my bags somewhere just in case I need to carry groceries from the store to the campground. Its so small it can fit under my front packet of my shirt (and its waterproof).

You can also use a Carradice Bag on a Rack in front, a frame bag, and a saddle bag, they come in plenty of sizes.

Here on this setup there is all in, tent, all sleeping stuff needed, all cooking stuff needed. All warm clothing needed.

an appropriate low gear depends on your bike+load total weight, what sort of terrain/steepness/long climbs are realistic to encounter, and to a smaller extent imo your age, fitness etc . Im in my early 60s and even in my mid 20s I realized that having a low gear of about 20 g.i. works best, and easier on my knees, easier on knee and leg muscles, so stronger overall in a day if you can downshift and not force your body a bit too much---this is the still ongoing fallacy in bike gearing, being able to put less torque into your knees and leg muscles just means it takes less out of you in the long run, so fresher over the day. When you don't need to be in the lowest gear, you shift up, its that easy.
There are days where we are more tired, didnt sleep well, or feeling sick a bit, starting a cold, or had tummy issues -- or whatever, so having a low gear that you dont use that often is fine. As long as you can comfortably pedal up to about 30 or 40kph 20-25mph for a period if you have a tailwind, which really doesnt happen that often anyway.
Going fast downhill is pretty much always going to be way past your gearing anyway. If the conditions are safe enough, I love blasting down hills and around corners, but all the times I get to 70, 80+ kph, 50mph+ I am way past my gearing so its a moot point also.

re panniers, look at the weights of empty panniers and you'll see how some are much lighter than others, its worth looking at this. The ortlieb bikepacking 25L rears are lighter , also ortlieb "Plus" versions of all their panniers uses a lighter fabric, I like these and used plus ones for about 30 years.
But then specific bikepacking small panniers are much lighter also, but probably dont have the "easy on, easy off" aspect of regular panniers.
I use a very light set of Arkels, 25L , called Dry-Lites, only about a pound for the set, BUT arent as tough as regular panniers and go on with velcro and a traditional bungee and hook system--but are super solid on rough single track--BUT are finicky putting on and off.
Compromises as always in life.

as you say, lots of options, for a cross country trip, you may appreciate a bit more volume , or not....but you have fun options.

"""an appropriate low gear depends on your bike+load total weight, what sort of terrain/steepness/long climbs are realistic to encounter, and to a smaller extent imo your age, fitness etc ."""

of course its nice to have a very low gear when cycling with weight, no doubt about that. at home with any weight on the bike I use then same low gears I use with a well loaded bike, and I love the easy going. the really big roll on the back panniers of your last image looks really cool.

Brifters would not work with that drybag you have on your handlebars, more and more people are touring on brifters. I do not recall the brand name of the shifters you use, but they must have very short levers to work with that dry bag. I can't quite make out the shift levers in the photo.

Hi there senor
You will laugh, when I did that trip in Scotland ,I borrowed the red dry bag just to have some spare space and to avoid putting heavier stuff in those thin rear panniers, so with all rough riding, they wouldn't get a hole worn in them.
The first day, the bottom of the dry bag came apart, so I had to improvise with a plastic bag to close the end so in the regular Scottish rain, it wouldn't get wet inside.
A frame bag would have been best to put the heavier stuff in like my pump, repair stuff, stove etc

I still like the idea of having a dry bag for overflow food shopping, weighs very little and with voile straps, easy to securely put on top of each.

It all worked out, and the setup was fine on a lot of rough single and double track. The panniers work well, but better to just have softer stuff like clothes, rain gear.

Agreed and that looks like a good way to go (the Carradice bags front and rear). I emailed them yesterday to confirm the Super C Audax for the front. Would be thinking maybe the Super C (23L) off the back (with support from their QR system). Any suggestions you all have on attaching the front using a rack? Maybe the Soma demi-porteur. I'd rather not attach to the handlebars. Would I need a decaleur receiver for a Randonneur-style handlebar bag or a tombstone loop for that bag?

I still have thoughts on using the Tubus Duo for the front. Got some time to think about it.

And...I just ordered the Rodeo Spork 3.2 fork. Again, excellent service. With this fork I can attach a rack, fenders, or the low rider rack (and fenders) My current Whisky forks allow none (I had fenders, but they were a little odd to attach).

I've ridden a lot with low rider panniers on a tubus Tara front rack.
Low weight means very nice handling around corners, and you just get used to the ride feel with them.
For a paved trip, or regular dirt roads, it's fine.

So many options, I'd recommend figuring out what volume you really need and then you'll have a better idea of options you'd like to consider.

Yes, It is getting slightly cooler here so I can break out the gear and do a couple of S24Os using my current pannier and rear rack setup. Nothing like a trial run to figure out what you knew at one time, but seemed to have forgotten

I'm always surprised how much I forget what works, although I now tend to take clear photos of what I have in each bag from different times of the year, a simple visual reminder of a packing list.
I used to take notes of what I used, what I didn't use, what I would have liked to have etc etc.
Handy to dial in stuff, but again, you have this experience from hiking.
Theres always some improvising with different time of year or specific regions countries, but I've found most of the core stuff remains the same year to year.

Oh, and you can always try certain bags or racks, and if you aren't crazy them, it's pretty easy to resell stuff. I've bought used frame bags and stuff before.

thats a good idea having an extra dry bag, never thought about it. I carry one of these ridiculous thin back packs in case i have to carry food for some hours.

I use the Nitto M18 on that bike, the Carradice Nelson Longflap rests fine on that rack, look at your handle bar width... my wife's Carradice is very small, I still had to change her handle bar to 44mm. Also the Tubus Duo when my wife comes with me, works fine. At the down part of the fork I place some 2-3mm rubber between the fork leg and the Duo, the Duo fixing point touches the fork there.

Has the Rodeo 3.2 already 3 eyelets, or 2? If 2 eyelets think about it .... the day you mount these fork leg cages 3 eyelets would be the easy way. My Rodeo is some years old and has only tow, so when I mount my King for cages I need to do a workaround with rubber and zip ties.

DUO and ORTLIEB GRAVEL Panniers

Str, I don't think I have mentioned this before, but your frame size and nearly level toptube is so handy to be able to have that partial frame bag, yet still have ample room for two regular water bottles.
I do like having a sloping toptube on rough terrain, but having a much bigger frame triangle is really nice.

Hi T, didnt see this message. Nope, they aint brifters, thems those oddball Gevenalle shifters, so the levers dont swing at all, they are just regular old brake levers.
But yes, makes things easier with baggage, to an extent.
I still do have to place the yellow drybag properly to not get in the way of the swing of the shift levers, and I have 46cm wide bars-- a lot of bikepacking bars are really wide nowadays, part for more wide control on sketchy surfaces, but with bonus of working well with brifters. The son of a friend put wide dropbars on his bike earlier this year, they were super wide, like 54cm or something.
Here are the shifters, easier to see, on narrower bars than now.

When I saw that dry bag, my first thought was how do you shift? I did not see bar end shifters on your bike. Then I remembered your type of shifters.

I use a fairly large handlebar bag. When I built up my rando bike, I was unsure how a Campy brifter would work on that bike, but it works just fine, below:



But if the bag was up higher, that side pocket could get in the way.

a better photo to show how they work well enough with stuff in the handlebar harness, it keeps things low ish so not an issue when placing the drybag and stuff in a way not to be sticking up and out the sides where the shifters swing inwards.

Yeah, the bikepacking front bag harness systems put the weight and volume lower than the modern handlebar bags that use a quick release bracket.

Decades ago handlebar bags also hung lower when they hung from a steel rod support that cantilevered off of the handlebar.

You have seen photos of my usage of a second stem to lower the quick release bracket for my handlebar bag, so I won't bother showing that again here.

I use bar end shifters on my touring bikes, except the Rohloff bike. But that Rohloff shifter is mounted on the end of the handlebar (with a Hubbub adapter) too, so I suppose you could call that Rohloff shifter a bar end shifter.

I am not sure why the drop bars on bikebacking bikes initially were angled out more, as that was not a big aero advantage. But I can see how the extra width on those bars is needed for bikepacking handlebar harnesses, especially when brifters are used.

being in the wider drops is nice on rougher or technical downhill sections, wider gives more steering control, or easier control with bumpy stuff going on.
The drop bars on my Troll have a moderate flare out, there were more flared out ones even back when I built that bike up in 2016, but I preferred a shallow flare for the majority of my riding.
Pretty much why mtb bars have gotten wider and wider over the decades. The 90s mtb were really narrow and folks figured out wider was better. Ive ridden both old and new and wider is nicer.

Okay it has taken some time to make progress, but here it is thus far. I purchased a Rodeo Labs Spork with the two holes for mounting racks (as opposed to the three holes), as it saved $100 and I don't see myself needing the three (I don't care for the little bottle holders and baby panniers). I had to have another caliper installed (another Sram), as the existing one did not line up. I could have run an adapter, but this new caliper fits better and looks/operates perfectly. I went to a 15mm thru axle and away from the quick release. I had Rodeo pre-install eyelets for connecting a rack or fenders down near the axle (as I will likely run fenders). The offset went from 43mm to 50mm and after two 25 mile rides I determine it is very nice. I cannot tell much difference in ride quality between the old vs. the new (still feels very stable).

The next step is to decide which front rack and bag/box setup. I'm edging towards a Velo Orange Flat Rack (a demi-portuer) and either a Rando handlebar bag (e.g., Velo Orange), or a bag from the likes of a Goldback from Bags by Bird. I like the Carradice bags, but I also like the XPAC material for a number of reasons.

Related - looking at another bag off the rear seat and like the bigger ones like the one mentioned above from BxB. Also, looking at the Tailfin or the Relevate Designs Spinlock. However, these would not be a used or useful on a day to day ride vs. longer tour. The bag idea would be great for both long and day to day/around town usage.

A lot of people on this forum like the Tubus Tara. It has a very small range for adjustment, in my mind too small, so if the horizontal bar is not horizontal it is hard to make adjustments. But it is a very strong rack. First post at this thread shows several photos of my bike, one photo (in a train station lobby) with the Tara on it without panniers so you can see the rack
Bike Tour near Lake Ontario and part of Erie Canal - June 2024.

I do not use a platform rack on the front for a big bag. I use a handlebar bag that has a very quick attachment method, so I can take the bag off and bring into stores and restaurants with me. I keep my valuables in the bag.

And I have enough steerer tube above my frame, that I have a second threadless stem mounted there with my handlebar bag bracket. Instead of writing up a description, here is a post I made a few years ago with some photos.
Racks/Bags and Interrupter Levers

The handlebar bags I have used are from a company that no longer makes them. But Ortlieb makes a handlebar bag that is pretty popular, you might consider one of those if you like the idea of a quick release bracket so you can take the bag with you when off of the bike.

I have a Tubus Duo now, but would like to go for a randonneur style rack bag.

Nitto M18 and Bags by Bird or Carradice

UPDATE

I went with Old Man Mountain's Pizza rack up front and I am carrying my "bedroom" (sleeping bag, air mattress, tent) and rain jacket on that - all about 10 pounds. For the rear I went with a lovely large Fabio's Chest, which is so well thought out. Tons of room and really versatile bag. It sits on my Carradice Expedition bag support. In that are my clothes, camp shoes, stove/cup, breakfast food and snacks, toiletries, and electronics - all under 10 pounds. Spare tube and tools are occupying the triangle area where the seat stay and seat tube meet and are secured on there with zip ties - out of the way, as I hope to never use them.

I swapped out my drop bars for my Jones Bars and I'm glad I did. I love the looks and feel of the drop bars, but on longer rides I have issues because I use only one hand position on the brake hoods 99% of the time. With the Jones Bars I'm shifting to about three or four positions regularly and can lower down on my elbows comfortably and with stability if needed for aero.

The bike with racks, bag and empty water bottles is 35 pounds. With all the above plus water I'm expecting to be at approximately 55-60 pounds.

Gear ratios are 34 tooth up front and an 11-speed (11-42) in the back. With the tires listed below I'm at a 22.6 low gear inch and close to 87 high.

Running Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 42mm wide tires with tubes. SKS Matt black plastic fenders are mounted too.

Cross country route maps arrived Saturday and downloaded TransAm and Western Express onto my Coros Dura.

So I will ride until my body, my mind, OR the road gives out

sounds interesting, pictures? ;)

my guess is that with 42mm tires you stay on tarmac? why 20-25 "pounds" aprox 11L of water? where will you tour?

your total load weight is fine.
I ride drops and Jones bars and while I like both (in fact, got my Jones bar bike out for the first time just the other day, I live in real winter country and there were two unusually warm days recently and the road salt was washed away).
I dunno, I switch hand positions all the time with drops, one of the reasons I love them for hand comfort.
Show photos sometime.
Supremes are great tires, alas no more.
The 42mm ones ride very well and are quite light, Just be very aware of the thin sidewall so don't ride up against hard stuff.

Other than offroad riding, I don't really get the 1x thing, a double would be so much nicer and more versatile, and give you a wider gear range, lower low and higher high, and you could even put a closer cassette on back.
22.7 low gear is just so so, decades of touring has consistently proven that for me.