Yielding to cars in the traffic circle has always been the rule, Europe or U.S. Yes, you have to wait your turn.

thank you for that
I was about to say the same thing
roundabout or traffic circle rules are the same all over the world--now as for people following that rule, thats a different matter and here in Canada, you still get people who do doofus moves and are clueless about it.

My understanding from Europeans I've known (French and Dutch), was that in their countries you have to yield to the one on the right, which is the one merging into traffic (opposite of NA). Always made sense to me, but I will gladly be corrected.

In Europe you always have to give way to traffic coming from the left at a roundabout. Thus you have to wait for traffic already in the roundabout… which can lead to a long wait.

I aggressively take the lane before and in roundabouts, and signal with a fully outstretched left arm if intending to pass an exit, and with a right arm before exiting.
Above is for driving on the right, of course.

I usually ”drop the hammer” too, to get through as quick as possible.

edit: Just to add, if you’re cycling in Europe, don’t use a bent left arm to signal a right turn. No-one uses that here, and no-one will understand it.

all very sound bike riding behaviour to give Imi.

(I also liked what you added about only using the straight out left or right arm signal. I've always used those biking here, and hope that the "bent left arm one" will disappear from use. As a car driver, I've always felt the straight out left or right arm is faster and much clearer of your intentions, super important that a car driver understands instantly what you are doing. I have a friend who steadfastly sticks to using the bent arm one, which to me is just increasing the chances of some driver taking a split second of not understanding and could lead to a dicey situation.)

I'm very much in the "drop the hammer" group and timing it as best I can to be around cars the least amount of time when I'm on a bike, in all the countries where I've ridden (and driven) through roundabouts or traffic circles in mainland Europe and the UK.

but yes, Paul, its a universal rule of "yeilding to those already in the roundabout" , so whether we are driving or on bike, we have to just wait patiently and have the reflexes and judgement to react quickly to get into an opening when it appears.

Paul, in the Montreal area, I find biking into traffic circles aren't too bad, but there are some up in Tremblant area on the 117 that have a lot of traffic, are pretty wide so people are going fast.
So biking through them you have to be on the ball, or just avoid the road itself and use the sidewalk, especially with a loaded bike, the few times I've been on the 117 to get to places off the Ptit Train du Nord bikepath.

but even driving, there are always people not clear on the universal rule of priority to those within the roundabout, or do not signal their intention to exit the roundabout.

Thanks. I do that everywhere.

Another roundabout thought: Never trust a car’s blinking indicators to judge their intentions. Sometimes they do the opposite.

Yes! Well said! Sometimes a roundabout can be too fast and heavily trafficked, lots of trucks, rush-hour etc… Then I’ll walk my bike.

Sorry about the thread drift. As to navigation, roundabouts are one place where knowing the name of the next town on your route is important, as you can follow the signs.

With paper maps and cue-notes, I think I used to be much more aware of this, even though I now navigate mostly with Komoot.

Google Maps recently told me to take the wrong direction out of a roundabout in Sherbrooke and I ended up in hilly downtown which I was trying to avoid. I even got honked at by a car which I figured at the time was because it didn't like me being in its way, but maybe it was telling me I'd missed the exit for the bike route. I use mainly paper maps in a plastic window on my handlebar bag, but the resolution is not good enough for urban areas. So I've sometimes resorted to Google Maps (the only app on my phone) to try to figure out why I'm lost, but it happened often enough that Maps wasn't helpful or sent me on a wild goose chase.

Even in a car I'm not comfortable in a roundabout, there's too much information to process instantly while worrying about missing the proper exit. I've updated my knowledge of driving in Europe, which I've never done though I've been there several times. I think my error comes from hearing about areas where intersections with stop signs are not the norm like they are here and I just extrapolated to roundabouts. But I still think that yielding to an entering car either on a highway or roundabout makes more sense since the oncoming traffic has no blind spots and can clearly see the other car while the merging vehicle can have serveral blind spots to deal with. It would also garantee being able to enter.

You have to let the circle have space before you can enter, otherwise you got circle lock. I LOVE traffic circles. Statistically, compared to a regular intersection they are much quicker, safer (surprisingly), quieter, more fuel efficient, and cause less wear on the brakes. European drivers were exceptionally patient whenever I rode in one this past summer.

The roundabouts generally keep with the thread since we were talking GPS and roundabouts and how to navigate through them. I personally like it when the GPS / Phone says something like "Take the 2nd exit" as I can count at least that high. Only issue is if a driveway or private road is on the roundabout and the GPS doesn't count it. Worse case is I turn a bit early and then quickly the spidey senses say "this doesn't look right". Surprisingly, prior to the GPS, I had toured for maybe 30 years and only made a bad turn 6 times. It has happened much more now because I tend to tune it out now that I can "rely" on the GPS' instructions and I miss hearing it say, "Dumbass, wake up, you have to turn in 100 meters" or at least something like that. I REALLY hate it when it gives me the turn cue about 1000'/300 meters in advance in a city because I tend to either turn early, miss the turn because of paying attention to the traffic, or similar.

I didn't vote, because I think what I do is not close to any of the offered options.

I draw the route exclusively using RideWithGPS. However, I never pick two points (e.g. starting and ending point or the whole tour, or even a day on tour) and then ask the tool to connect the two, never. I inspect the whole area using mostly Google Street View, browse the internet for all possible points of interest between the two points (e.g. daily start and finish) and choose the route based on what I want to see, what roads exist in the area and can take me where I want and which of them I prefer based on Street View and internet opinions and suggestions. Then I draw that in RWGPS. So, I take no clues or help from the tool in planning the route, and only want the resulting distance and elevation totals.

Once I am done with the plan, I print the elevation profiles of some parts of the route, usually the more demanding ones, with steepness and total vertical meters typed in for each important climb, so I know what to expect as I often plan for a bit more than I can chew and need as many plans B I like as I can find. For my 17-day tour this summer I had something like 15 such printouts, some of the planned route and some of the possible plan Bs.
Also, once on the road I never ask any tool to "take me there from here". I never use navigation, not even in cities I have never been in before. I look at my current location (Google Maps, usually), figure out the general plan and then just wing it. Whether any tool is good for navigation or not is irrelevant, as neither has a clue about what I am interested in, which is pretty much always dependent on what I want to see and which road I want or don't want to use.

So, I would say that 99% of all work is done by simply researching the internet for points of interest and for ways to get to them using as many side roads as possible, and 1% is actually drawing those plans in RWGPS. Then, Google Maps for seeing where exactly I am at the moment, and my eyes for looking where I want to go next. I record the track on the phone which is in the handlebar bag all the time and is not looked at except to start the app in the morning and shut it down in evening.

I wouldn't like to be without the internet, because it has so much information that wasn't available before. On the other hand, I use it only for gathering information and recording it, but not much more than that.
Also, I like to talk with locals (Europe) and ask them for their opinion, if for no other reason then to enjoy the ride as much as possible. Google Maps is dumb, locals can be too but are not necessarily predictable and are almost always interesting.

I blame Friday afternoon and beer #2 for such a long post, it really isn't my fault.

Unless you are on a very specific organised tour in Paris, I would recommend avoiding this roundabout

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...77c61c15c.jpeg

Thats maybe right if one let the app do automatic routing. With manual route planing one single app is cool. (to me).

Where I live, half the people never use their blinkers. I never rely on that.

If I get to Paris, maybe that round about is a good one to miss.

I think the biggest problem I have with round abouts is that almost everyone going through one does that every day, thus are used to the type of traffic, how fast to go, they know the layout of that particular round about, and the other drivers they see also are used to the traffic in that one. The ones I have driven through many times in a car, they do not bother me at all. But a new one that I have never seen before, if I am on a bike I will most certainly upset the normal flow of traffic.

indeed
purdy foto though

Maybe it is just be, but I can't figure out how you navigate while on the road. You say you wing it but if you are doing say a 62-mile / 100k day, how do you get from start to finish if you never look at your phone. But you use it too look at your current location. However, you said you don't look at it and if that is the case, why bother with RWGPS. What I am I missing? Are you sure it was beer #2?? :)

Obviously, I look at my phone when I want to check my exact location, and when I do that it is for the purpose of navigation. But, I don't ask any tool to draw me a route or tell me which turn to make, that is all - I look at the map, see where I am and put the phone back in the bag. That can happen more than usual when I am in a big city, but a) I am capable of following a general direction without checking my location often and b) I don't mind taking some wrong turns in cities I am not familiar with as they can take me somewhere interesting and I like to explore (that is why I go on tours, after all).

RideWithGPS is used only to plan the tour, at home and on desktop computer, and to upload the gpx file once I am back. I don't have that planned route anywhere in front of me, I have it in my head as my tours are not months long. All I need and use is the Google Maps to see where I am.
I have a separate phone, which is stripped of everything that can possibly be stripped except the app that records my ride (Orux maps) and that phone I touch only in the morning, to start recording, and in the evening, when I am done for the day.
My days are usually around 90-100km (~60 miles).

Hopefully that explains it :)
And yes, it was only my second beer, but it was a Friday afternoon and the week was hard and ugly...

edit. Here is the last tour https://ridewithgps.com/trips/316284840 recorded in Oruxmaps as a single file, single ride.

Some places the directions really aren't that hard ...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...92f6e5b79f.jpg

I have had great success in using RWGPS to allow me to draw a route that could be downloaded to a device. I know that at times I am unfamiliar with some of the roads out on the east end of Long Island (where I live) and have created routes to download and follow. Worked flawlessly giving accurate TBT directions. I have used Garmin’s, a Hammerhead and now a Coros GPS for this and now fairly familiar with the process to have no qualms using this method to an unknown city or town. It’s a reasonably good method to navigate once you are familiar and learn the quirks and ins and outs.

This pole is not reflecting what is actually being used in the long distance and adventure cycling community. Effectively no one is using maps and they increasingly more difficult to acquire. I did a 3 month tour this spring/summer in Europe and to think I would carry maps with sufficient resolution for all the regions I covered is ridiculous.

I understand the romantic attachment to spreading a map on a picnic table and planning the next day over a beer with your buddies like it was 1976 Bike Centennial ride across America however, in reality, those scenes just aren’t relevant anymore other than a short multi day ride with your C&V crew.

I agree with you. There are just a few situations where paper maps are still useful, although the big picture thing is still there, but as you say not really for a long trip.

And frankly why not a lot of younger riders are in here I reckon

We gotta adapt to changes, and take advantage of the technology available to us now

No we don’t 😊

It ain't broke.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed91a8fc37.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...647e17180a.jpg

If you had a route laid out before you started and you never deviated from that route, what you propose works.

I think my Natchez Trace tour, Katy Trail tour, South Florida tour, and George S. Mickelson tour fits that quite well. I could have done those tours quite well without any paper maps. On those tours we never deviated from our planned route for over a day or two. Three of those four tours are well established routes.

But not any of the other tours. On those others I have often left my planned route where I was off route for several days, to in two cases was off my planned route for over a week and a half.

While it is possible to stare at a tiny little screen and make your alternative plans, that does not work for me. I am a retired geological engineer, I worked with maps (both electronic and paper) on every day of my professional career. I am quite good at using the most efficient and best tools available when it comes to mapping. Where I used to work, I was the one telling our software staff what upgrades we needed on some of our mapping tools.