Hmm, OK you-all have got me convinced. I need to take more time and learn more, and probably use a different shop. Thanks especially for the last couple of posts, they really cleared things up for me.

Any ideas on a good shop in NYC where I can just chat about different frames and custom v. stock? I've been on an ultra-brick-like bike for the last couple of years, so it may be that I can get an inexpensive frame, add S&S (or maybe I don't *really* need those couplers?) and good components and be fine.

A lot of the time I find myself thinking, "well the frame doesn't have to be *that* light/new. I can achieve the same results by losing 10lbs before the trip after all..."

What was the need for the BTC's in the first place unless you intend to fly with the bike?
I hope you took the time to look at lunacycles, I have a hunch that a woman builder will be slightly more attuned to a female rider, than a male, after all we males do tend to suffer from testosterone poisining. We like to go fast and that really affects our judgement.
Light frame? get a bike built out of true temper oxiplatinium tubes, tig, brazed or lugged. If you get it tig welded the only thing lighter will be carbon fiber or Ti.
One thing I fail to grasp is the need for 27 or 30 gears. I managed quite well with a Kabuki diamond tour 10 speed road bike for many years, until the poor beast broke ( bent the hell out of the rear derailleur hanger beyond repair, due to a free wheel failure) it was not geared as low as a mtn bike. Oh, it was heavy about 28 lbs bare. I managed a couple of loaded 50 lb+ loaded centuries touring with it. I like my current bike with the rohloff hub it does have the low range of a mtn bike, I do find it lacking on the high end, I like to go fast, it can not not make the higher gear ratio of a road bike, so I spin out and go slow. But this IS the touring forum, and for the most part we move slow.
If you want the bike to fit you get it custom made. How do I know this ... I built my own from the tubes up right down to the paint scheme, just the way I wanted it and you know what, it really is a pleasure to ride it fits.
I do believe that a womans geometry merits a differnent approach to frame building. Unless the builder is keenly aware of those differences all you can hope for is a stock bike. Most programs that calculate frame size do include differences in reach, torso length, leg length, and a few other factors, but fail to account for differences in center of gravity. How about a 180mm crank any input on that?
Custom builders near you: spectrum, bilenky, proteus in Md, might come up with a better list latter. If so I will post it.
If you are willing to take the time there is a frame builders list, mostly PROS and serious ams, the members are quite willing to answer questions and offer advice, and services. You would need to subscribe to it is free http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders

A 24 speed makes sense. Anything more I wouldn't worry. Your'e obviously doing your homework, look at Bikefriday for portabiity. Read the Rivendel site. There is lots of stuff here.

At one point you mentioned building your own: What about this: http://fellini.net/lht/

Partability and ability to take it on a plane seem to be part of your mix, and that will determine quite a bit what kind of bike you can go for. You cna pay quite a few shipping charges before the air upcharge gets you back in the money had you bought an expensive compactible bike.

When it comes to weight, as you know, rotating weight is what you want to avoid. And rotating resistances. So wheels are the big issue. particularly if you end up with 26" stuff, make sure the rims and everything are as light a possible, be sure to have high pressure tires, of the smallest practical width, but no smaller than what you need. So for instance I went to 37mm because I had a lot of loose trails in the mountains, with everything else being paved. But normally I prefer 32. I always get zero tread. But while the wheels need to be light, you need good puncture proofness, and great tough spokes. They need to be touring wheels. F

rame weight is probably at the margin a few pounds. Groupo weight isn't the issue, you don't need the lightest stuff, cause it isn't built all that tough, and may not be available for the widest gear range.

You do need to go light, but there can be a few things you go over on. Like the frame, you can save 1 grand there, and possibly save some weight if you could drop the S&S stuff. But either way, there are reasons for going over there. The key thing is to have a weight budget, and not go over everywhere.

I'm thinking a bikefriday wouldn't be too fun for lots of miles... that it would handle strangely and just not go quickly enough. Seems a bike friday would work best if I were going to fold the bike up every day. Plus I worry that the joints would flex too much.

I like the idea of a "weight budget." Would 25lbs be about right for that?

Why square taper BB? Not for argument's sake; for my own education. TIA.

(I got an old Shimano square taper BB on my MTB. It's been barely used.)

lorrer, the best bike shop I know of in NYC (and I dont know em all by any measn) is the one on 5th avenue in Parkslope brooklyn, off of flatbush. Theyve got a ton of bikes and gear, and have been around for a long time. I never approached them with touring questions or custom frame questions, but if you want to talk face to face with someone maybe go there.. I suggest researching the custom frame builders around you (PA, NY, NJ, CT, MA) giving them a call and chatting.. get info from them and tell them youre interested in a bike, give your whole deal.. they should have good info for you. Then if you can set up a meeting and get out to one of them to see the bikes. Remember youre going to be spending a good bit of $$ for something youre going to have for years!! get the right thing, and get something that you love at first sight.

skip 6 or 7 speed setups, the parts arent as easy to find nowadays. 9 speed is very common and easy to get and durable enough. 25lbs should be easy to do, unless youre 6'5".

have fun
~Steve

ps.. I was in the same boat as you, in NYC, went around one day to every bike shop I could find and settled on a Lemond Poprad that very day. Ive been super happy with it ever since. So, these things dont have to be drawin out sweat every detail ordeals. It was wonderful on my tour (after adding racks and changing gearing/wheels) and now gets daily commuter use and everything else in between. I love it!!!
find something you love.

People say otherwise about a BF, and I have seen them out there. But I haven't tried them. There is something to be said for the idea of small low rolling resistance wheels, and a suspenssion system, though I prefer the simplest Friday, really. It worth considering if portability, was critical, as in every tour you are planing starts with a plane ride somewhere. If you are planing 90% local, then I would just get a regular bike.

Not to drive home the point too hard, you could do a real nice touring bike, and a Bike Friday for 3 grand. My very nice touring bike cost me about 1K US ( I hope to have pictures up by Sunday Monday), and you can get a the basic friday for 900-1500. Fridays are also all custom fitted, which is easy for them because each frame has huge potential up fit, so really, stocking just some lengths gives them both up and out fit, for the same cost of a regular stock frame approach (though I don't know that is how they are doing it). So if your elegant leg length demands some special fit, Friday to the rescue.

I'm the guy selling the 57cm Bilenky, so my advice might be a bit unusual but if you aren't going off deep into the wilds and the Bilenky doesn't do it for you, have a look at Marinoni. The Turismo is a steel touring bike or frame and none too expensive at around $1600US or $1850US with a disc brake set-up. It doesn't have lugs but is well-finished. These are Canadian prices (in US$) but shipping to NYC for example would be around $100 or so.

http://www.bikespecialties.com/marin...rismodisk.html
http://www.bikespecialties.com/marinoni/turismo.html

Oh hey, fancy seeing you here. Thanks for pitching in your information. I'm slightly discouraged actually. One guy fitted me but won't tell me the size of the bike he's thinking of making (is this even remotely normal?). Another LBS tried to sell me some titanium frame for 5k after I explicitly stated I wanted steel and what my budget was (ahem, not 5k!).

Does anyone know of a good, solid way to get fit for a touring frame that I can do at home? Alternatively, a bike shop in NYC that might do this for me? I'd love to get the Bilenky or a nice stock S&S frame that has dimensions close enough (and what does close enough consist of, anyway?) but feel like it's hard to get straight answers on what really is best.

Also, if I'm going to really be a ton more comfy on a custom built to my body, I'll go with it, but if the frame built is just going to have the same dimensions as one I can buy that's stock, why in the would I go custom on the frame (besides those sexy, sexy lugs of course)? Is it generally necessary in order to fit MTB gearing on the back?

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO

Do a road fit, probably tending towards the French Fit, if you want a classic touring frame. But either way, what you are looking for is whether the seat tube and top tube are pretty close. In my case they were four inches appart. So 56 and 60. To me that begs for a custom frame. but I was never uncomfortable with the 58 I had. However if I had gone with a standover fit, a 56, then the added 5 inches of reach would have been a bit much for a stem to take up!

On the other hand, this fit calculator was easy for me to read. But... it did recomend everything from 53 inches to 61, if you take my shortest leg fit, and my longest TT fit.

But getting back to the custom question, if your numbers came out 58 leg 52 reach, because of ballet dancer like leg length or something, then you would know the custom option is reasonable. If your fit comes out 56 56, then you fit off the rack. So goign through the process will tell you whether you are a necesarry custom fit person.

You don't need a custom bike for any other reasons than: 1) fit 2) pretty 3) you have a ton of strong opinions and you need a way of getting them into a frame: 9 water bottle mounts, and a 20" wheel in the front.

Also "lugs", as in "you big lug". Does that really sounds pretty? People have just been conditioned to believe that lugs are high art, when welding is art and lugs are investment casting. If you want lugs just buy some from Henry James like every other frame builder. Heck, I remember when all the bikes had lugs, Big machines pressed the frames together, and multiple torches heated up the metal while slugs of brazing sloshed everywhere. Very proletarian. Plumbers do it every day.

Now TIG is an art form. It is actual hands on work, controling a 13000 degree bolt of lightning to manipulate a puddle of molten metal, while selectively cooling and building the pudde with filler wire. Sure it's easy when you know how, but so is brain surgery.

Admitedly they do carve some nice patterns in lugs, but it's so Victorian. When was the last time you got all excited about the hand carved detail on your computer chair?

So I take it you are a frame builder, please post a photo or a link to some of your work.
Thank you in advance.

Are you nuts, the kind of frames I like are made in Taiwan.

I am making motorcycle frames which are mostly tig welded, though lugs would be something different. One could really express oneself with Maltese crosses, and skulls, the lug is such a responsive medium.

Sure, I'd love to own a custom fitted frame made to order. But since I am of average proportions I ordered the LHT frameset from my LBS over the weekend. This is going to be one fun build..... :D

Sorry I thought this was a Bicycling discussion. Anyway how about a link or a pic? I would guess motorcycle frames are just slightly off topic though.

My views on lugs and welds are bicycle specific. They may be relevant to this thread if they free people up from feeling they are buying an inferior product, in whatever way, to a lugged frame.

There are obviously things being done with steel frames and lugs, even structurally, that one hardly sees with TIG, but that may have a lot to do with poppycock assumptions about lugs.

There are thousands of people making chopper frames right now. I've never photed any of my stuff. I still can't somach the cost of the drive train so my project is stalled at the frame level.

I started a rip-off bike friday frame thread on the folding bike side. Keep posted for any glacial progress over there.

Anyone have any CAD or specs on head tube or BBs?.

No, that is not normal. Any decent, honest frame builder would want to discuss the dimensions of a bike they were building for a client to insure that the client will be happy with the finished product.

You wouldn't buy a dress from a dress maker who wouldn't tell you how long the hem is, would you?

OK I took my measurements and they are:
-------------------------------------------
Inseam: 35.7
Trunk: 25.3
Forearm: 13.4
Arm: 28
Thigh: 25.8
Lower Leg: 22.5
Sternal Notch: 58.5)


So according to the calculator at competativecyclist.com:

The French Fit (cm)
-------------------------------------------
Seat tube range c-c: 61.6 - 62.1
Seat tube range c-t: 63.5 - 64.0
Top tube length: 55.6 - 56.0
Stem Length: 10.7 - 11.3
BB-Saddle Position: 74.8 - 76.8
Saddle-Handlebar: 57.4 - 58.0
Saddle Setback: 9.2 - 9.6
Seatpost Type: SETBACK

Could an off-the-rack do (perhaps with some modifications...?), or does this demand a custom for comfort on the long haul?

I do not see anything in there about seat tube angle, head tube angle, bottom bracket clearance, front to center, rear to center. Crank length missing, tire diameter missing, trail, fork rake if any.
There are alot of variables that a custom builder will consider, and design around. A stock frame might work just fine, take a couple for a test ride, but remember a spin around the block is not the same as a day or a week in the saddle.
I will run those body measurements through Tim Paterk's program, it has different types of ride types, as one of its parameters for frame calculation. See what it says. Just curious. Just looked at program and Paterek asks for body weight, as well. Please post.
The fit is three points of contact hands, butt, and feet, and distances and angles created. Hand position (reach) is I believe the easist to change, and differnent bars, and or stems. I also think that it is what makes the fit, more than leg extension which can also be changed. I guess this is not much help so I'll cut it short, with fit is not the same as the ride, you can have a perfectly fitted bike, but one that rides terrible, for the use that you require.

Well you are about the same as me, in reverse (lucky you). Seems as though you could probably go to something like a Surly 58, a shorter stem than average, and a lot of seat post showing, like two fists. That isn't all that bad, and I don't see why you would be uncomfortable. Your bike fit would be pretty close to what most moutain bike or trials frames look like with a lot of seat extension. On the other hand, if you wanted a classic look/relationship to the frame, then you would need a custom frame with longer seat tube, and shorter top tube.

weight: 165
height: 5-10.5

Based on you input and an assumed weight of 70 kg, the two pics are screen shots of suggested geometry for a touring frame. Via Patereks program.. Hope the attachments go through well. Top tube length is real close.

Thanks, oknups. Do you know of any frames that fit this geometry, or how unusual/usual it is?

Speaking as someone with similar proportions (slightly taller, slightly shorter inseam), it's unusual. Frames like that haven't been common in twenty years. It sounds like you are an excellent candidate for a custom. Either that or you can try and find an 80s Trek 720 or 620 on ebay and have it rebuilt with modern components like I did. :)