I'm a 5-11 female, with a 35 inch inseam and short-ish torso (24 inches), long arms and legs. Can you suggest good steel frames for me? Steel because I'm pretty set on getting S&S couplers and titanium is way out of my price range (approx 2k at the most, hopefully I can find a good deal for under 1k used). Will I want a custom frame for a half-year tour? I'm visiting with a bike shop tomorrow but doubt they'll tell me if I need a custom frame since then I'd buy it direct from someone like Bilenky rather than the bike shop. There's a small likelihood that I can get a 57cm used Bilenky touring frameset with S&S, so advice on that for touring would be great. Also I'll probably be scouring ebay for a while, so stuff I can get via ebay and recommendations on time of year to buy would help. Also looking for recommendations on Bilenky or Robert Beckman bikes. To be clear: looking for a whole bike, but more than willing to build it myself unless someone out there has a great touring-specific build like Beckman apears to have.

Thanks!

Sounds like you know what you're up to.

In contrast, I'm just learning how to take care of my bike properly and in reading my Zinn book found a section devoted to measurement for getting the right frame dimensions. I haven't gone through it yet, but as someone who is also long of leg and short of body, I have found that many bikes don't fit quite right, and I'm hoping that following the measurement advice from the Zinn book will help me specify what I need out of a frame and its accoutrements.

In theory, you go by the torso, so by that theory. you would not want a 57, since that would probably be closer to a person of your height who has the "normal" sized torso, which is to say a reach of 5'11", though possibly that is your reach if your arms are real long. I am 6'1" with a reach of 6'4". I should be 56 cm seat tube, and 60cm top tube. Custom maybe or the Nashbar frame which I understand is long in the top tube, though that is more or less a rumour. I just finished up a tour on a 58, and it was fine, though I probably needed a longer stem than I had. And a lower standover as on a Surly would have been easier to get onto. The satndard 58 I had was real nice to ride though.

If your inseam is a true 35", meaning bare feet - flat on floor - 10" apart with ruler snug against bone and dead horizontal, then you're probably going to need something in the 60-61 cm range on the ST measurement. I just can't see a 57 fitting you properly. Having said that, either a Bilenky or Beckman would be a very good choice in a touring bike. I especially like the Bilenky. He appears to be a stickler for quality and, he is one of that dying breed who is good with lugs - if you like lugged steel.

My mind is not working too well tonight otherwise I would offer a few other suggestions in a reasonably priced touring bike. In any event, being that there will likely be some disagreement with sizing on this forum, I would recommend getting a competent shop or someone to fit you. Someone who specializes in fitting for touring, not some modern shop with a hip fit machine and racing bikes lining the walls.

Good point. I am like 33 inseam, and the 58 standover is ok-large. So 35 is going to be tall there, but the torso, I don't know.

I found the fit calculator was right when I got on the bike: The standover was pushed to the limit, and the top tube length was a little short. Just what the calculator said. I was on the right bike frame for stock given the square frame dimensions.

I'm a 6'0" female with a 34" inseam and a shorter than average torso. My arms length is in proportion to my torso and so my reach is much less than most with a 34" inseam. I have also struggled to find bikes with a top tube short enough to be comfortable. I just purchased a Trek 520 23" bike and it fits wonderfully. Because it has touring geometry, the top tube is a little shorter than a standard road bike and I futher compensated with a little shorter stem - and it is very comfortable.

My best advise to you is to check the specs of all the different brands, as top tube lengths definitely differ between brands. Find the right top tube length (including any changes to stem length that might be necessary) and you should find something that will work for you.

Cherry Bomb

Check out Rivendell's site for their Atlantis. Calculate the frame size for your height and inseam with their table. They have some data on their frame dimensions. That could give you a start.

Get a Surly Long Haul and build it up or have your LBS build it. Cut the steering tube high and put spacers above the stem. That way you can raise the handglebars no problem. With a high handle bars, the 58cm frame might fit just right.

Or go the Trek 520 route, but be sure to special order the bike with the steering tube uncut.

I'm 6' and have a 35" inseam. Both the Atlantis and LHT are too long for my preference. I like a frame in the 61-63cm range with about a 57.5cm top tube and a stem length between 90 and 110mm depending upon exactly where the ST and TT lengths end up. Old bikes usually fit me much better than most new ones. Current sizing bias on most off-the-shelf bikes tends to be towards a stretched out position for men with long torsos.

There is some thinking that not only do women tend to have short torsos, but they balance differently necessitating even shorter lengths. If that's true, the lengths above might still be too short for you.

Even with all of that, variables like your fitness, use and personal preferences make all the difference. Measurements just aren't enough.

A lot of people are recommending Mercian or Bob Jackson for custom tourers recently, but I'm the only one around here who I know actually owns one and mine's not a tourer. It's worth considering, but I don't know of anyone with first-hand experience touring with one. If the $2k you quoted is for a complete bike, not just frameset, then Mercian or BJ may be your only custom options.

My touring bike is 1986 Trek 620 with a modern 8-speed drivetrain. It fits and works great. I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a half-year tour.

You should be able to have a custom touring frame plus fork for under $1,000. I know of frame builder who normally charges $700 for a steel frame. Build kit for $1000. Bingo.

I am also "blessed" with a long inseam & short torso. There are still some good tall steel frames out there. Unfortunately Trek shrunk the 520. It once was available with a 25.5" frame. Also, I think they shrunk the quality some. I recently picked up a steel Atlantis (Rivendell), and I really like it. You may have to get an unusual stem to make a good fit, no matter which bike you end up with. Atlantis frames are available up to 68cm.

Thanks a lot for the advice, everyone. Just talked with my LBS's owner who sized me up, and recommended a custom frame... which in the end, since I'm going to spend 7 months straight on my bike, I guess I'll go with. Approximately 2k is going to end up being 3k with the couplers and 105 setup... not including extras like panniers, racks, etc. Everything seemed pretty reasonable though - Franklin lugged frame for about 1400 WITH s&s couplers (this is very reasonable for a custom with couplers from what I've researched), but add to that the shimano 105 build kit for about $800 plus wheels, pedals, handlebar, saddle, etc. etc. and it's looking like 3.1k.

I do have that much to spend without breaking the bank thanks to a generous gift from a relative recently (I count my lucky stars every day)... I wonder if this seems reasonable to you-all? Also, what do you think of 105 versus Ultegra vs. some kind of combination road-mtb setup?

If I do a combination, what should be MTB and what should be road? This forum, btw, kicks butt. Very very useful and thanks for everyone who responds!

If you're riding fully loaded with camping gear, you probably want mountain gearing and road shifters. Work with the bike shop that is selling you parts to get the compatability issues worked out. Just remember, a loaded touring bike handles very different from a racing bike and has very different stresses. Racing components aren't going to be the best choice all around.

That seems pretty steep. I paid 1200 canadian for my bike, and the frame was about 500, so if your frame is 1400 us, I don't see why it needs to cost 3 k plus. Mine had LX hubs and gears, no brifters just regular levers, B17, Alex rims which seem really good, etc. It was custom components I picked, except where I didn't care. I swaped over the brakes off my mountain bike, racks I already had, pedals I had.

The brakes were not perfect, but that probably worked out: I was willing to go mega custom on the cantis, now I am probably looking for something else. So I probably saved myself about 250. and the canti can go back on my MTB

All up my package probably weighed 340, and the only problem I had in 1000 miles was the usual 500 mile new crank problem, and a burst tire.

Go to the rivendell site and check out the stuff they recomend, a lot of it is pretty cheap, but it works. Their bikes are expensive, but their taste in components is reasonable.

I'm guessing you don't weigh over 200 like me. Therefore you could easily run 32 spoke wheels, and use a donor MTB for almost everything needed to fill out your frame. Anyway, price isn't an issue for everyone, and fancy gear can be a lot of fun. Though... I got nothing but rave reviews about my bike from folks on the road.

By the way, I've lost track of when you need this by, but for 200, you could build out a Nashbar frame, or similar, with all the cool stuff, then just ride the heck out of it for a while. You would be a total expert on your needs size wise, after that experiment, you could sell the frame, and switch the package to the custom frame you may well need in the end. The switch over is a realtively small task, if you have the tools you will probably want for your touring anyway, and a few others.

The big advantage to this approach is it totally demystifies the whole thing. At the end of the day, the bike just has to be good, not perfect. If you did this, I think you would end up saving money in the long haul.

If you want to see what a real touring bike should look like, check out the Bruce Gordon BLT.
https://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html
These come at under $2km equipped with the kind of components that experienced tourists would select.
I would query a complete 105 build kit. Whilst the quality is sufficient, the gear ratios are too high. Most tourists use an MTB chainset and many use MTB hubs, esp on the rear.

Do you have any links to the Franklin frameshop?
You get some artisan builders who charge extra for the name and others who do artistic, fancy lugs which are nice but not neccessary.

Did not see franklin in the list https://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm. $1400 sounds very reasonable for a custom built to measure lugged frame with nice paint job and the couplers. If you are putting up $800 for the 105 kit, have you given any thought to a Rohloff speed hub? It has the gear range of a mtn bike in 14 steps, and a single chain ring up front. Might increase the cost of the frame somewhat. Thorn Cycles in the UK makes a touring bike built around the Rohloff.
Something else I think is worth its weight is a Look ergo stem, if you are getting fatigued in one position during a long ride, stop the bike and change the stem length and or and height.

From what I understand he's building the frame and having it retrofitted by one of the S&S authorized guys. Have to look into the Look ergo stem. As far as gearing, I'm somewhat at a loss. LBS is recommending 105 or ultegra 10sp, but willing to accomodate me for alternate gearing. Why would a single chain ring in the front be good? I'm inclined to get three chain rings up front...

If you're talking about loaded touring with camping gear and your LBS is talking about 105 and Ultegra for gearing, I'd be VERY skeptical about their understanding of touring.

Do yourself a favor and start reading here: https://kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/index.htm

I wouldn't want 105 or Ultegra 10-speed for touring. I'd stick with 9-speed so I could use mountain bike cassettes. The 10-speed cogs and chainrings are a little thinner, and perhaps they aren't as durable.

I'd get Deore, LX, XT, or XTR hubs and derailleurs, an XT 12-34 Cassette, a Sugino crankset with 26/36/46 chainrings, and Shimano 9-speed bar end shifters. If you want to go with STI, then you should use a 9-speed road front derailleur instead; still get a mountain rear derailleur, but make sure to get one without the "rapid rise" if you don't want the STI to shift backwards. A road 9-speed crank is okay if you are strong, young, and light and it should work better with a road front derailleur.

I agree with the last two posts above.

I'd recommend 12-32 9 speed in the rear and 22.34.44 chainrings in the front. You'ld be giving up 4gi at top but would have easier shifting and the same low granny gear.

I don't know if you are getting the best deal. I would suggest either getting a standard bike and fitted right for you, or going for a good custom bike. 3.1 K is too close to getting an excellent custom bike. Financing is probably available.

For almost the same amount you could get a lighter touring bike
https://lakeside-bikes.com/site/itemd...=39&sort=price

For about $250 more, you could get the manufacturer to make one exactly to your body sizes and your preferences in a touring bike. You should have no trouble getting the chainring and the cassette swapped free of charge for one more suited for touring. And you'd have the manufactor to stand behind the bike instead of just the LBS. What happens to LBS support, say in 5 years. Will it be there and will you be there so you can count on it?

I personally like to stick with a square taper BB if going with quality 22/34/44 crankset....if you can locate one, like a NOS XT square taper crankset for example. I've got that setup on my Mtb with a 11-32 9-speed cassette which I occasionally use for those quick off road overnight tours.

I also like the Sugino 26/36/46 crankset as mentioned which uses the traditional square taper BB. The only thing I might swap is the granny to a 24 which is the smallest the crankarm can handle. I run a 24 granny on my old LX crankset (which by the way looks almost identical to the Sugino) on my commuter/tourer.

You're getting a lot of information, some conflicting, and probably confusing. It stems from the fact that you have an LBS selling you a bike from a custom builder that nobody here knows about and seems to be recommending a build-up that seems spendy and inappropriate. Since we don't know about Franklin, we don't know how good they are with touring frames and whether what you get will work. Furthermore, if the LBS is selling you the wrong parts, it's not a stretch that they are selling you the wrong frame as well.

If you have the money to go custom, you should at least talk to a few custom builders who have some touring expertise. You mentioned Beckman in your first post, that might be a good place to start. Also try Bob Brown, Mercian, and Bruce Gordon.

You certainly don't =need= to spend $3k on a capable touring bike. From what little we have from you, it doesn't seem like your LBS is up to the task of doing this for you.

Halfspeed, good advice!!!

Lorrer, lets reel it in and clear up some things.

Maybe the most important thing for loaded touring is gearing!!! No strictly road setups!! no 10 speed setups!!

For loaded touring you need a triple up front, and a mountain rear cassette. (unless youre very very strong) Now the triple up front should not be a typical road triple with a 30 tooth small sprocket. Youll want something more like a 26, or maybe a 24 tooth cog. Nashbar sells a 28,38,48 (trekking crankset) that you can fit a 26 or 24 to. This is a solid crank if you cant find something in a LBS. The rear cassette, needs to have a few bigger sprockets than a typical road unit. Mountain cassettes have either a 32 or 34 tooth big sprocket. (aka granny-gear, low gear) Youll want a mountain cassette. Go with the 34 tooth, youll be very happy to have it when you need it.

Now when selecting a gearing setup like this, derailleurs have to be picked that can span such a large range. This means a mountain rear derailleur; the front has to be picked based on the size of your biggest front cog. I have the forementioned 28,38,48 front triple and had to go with a 105 road triple up front. (the MTB der I bough wouldnt work..) Now we're not talking whats better or best, were talking what works! Setups like this are not typical, so there isnt a package you can buy and bolt on, you have to pick all the parts and make them work. This is where your shop or builder (hopefully) comes in. Now honestly, from what I've read and others seem to think the same, your shop either might not have the best idea of what you're about to undertake and how to get you setup properly, or they want to make $$$ on this.

Advise from halfspeed about talking to the right people is a great idea. This board is a good first stop.

For 2.5G's you can go full custom, with racks, from a builder who knows touring. Find one within a few hours drive, visit them and get it done right. A LBS is good for some things, but for a bike that youre going to be on for months at a time, go to a true pro.

Always ask questions here. . like you said its a great resource.
and enjoy learning all this stuff along the way!!

~Steve
sorry if this seemed long and preachy, I was in a similar situation as you a few yers ago and wish I had known then what I do now!! And the bike is the tip of the iceberg!! dont even get us started on gear for your journey: )