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-   -   Touring frame dimensions & advice, please. (https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/142492-touring-frame-dimensions-advice-please.html)

oknups 10-13-05 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by halfspeed
Speaking as someone with similar proportions (slightly taller, slightly shorter inseam), it's unusual. Frames like that haven't been common in twenty years. It sounds like you are an excellent candidate for a custom. Either that or you can try and find an 80s Trek 720 or 620 on ebay and have it rebuilt with modern components like I did. :)

No I do not know of a frame that would fit. Sorry. I just guessed at your weight and ran the numbers you posted. I never really thought about it too much but its funny your inseam is longer than mine by an inch, yet your overall reach is shorter, and our differnce in height is only maybe 1-1/2". The top tube on my custom frame is 598 mm.
I will ask around about a stock frames and custom ones, and contact via pm. I do not think the tube geometry would work with lugs, I might draw it up and see, also I do not think the bottom bracket shells out there will work, the most common seat tube/down tube angle is 60, not even close to 62.8, lugs can be bent maybe 1 1/2 degrees 2 max what I have been told. Tig allows any geometry, and it is lighter. Looks aside welding is a better solution for odd angle frames.
When do you need this bike? If I start asking around it would be good to know.

lorrer 10-13-05 08:03 PM

No huge rush on it, I'd like it before summer so I can train properly, but I've got plenty of time. Thanks for your offer to help out, oknups, it's good to have someone so knowledgable giving me a hand. I think maybe women have shorter arms proportionate to their legs too... but then again I have pretty long arms, or at least so I've thought :).

halfspeed 10-13-05 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by oknups
No I do not know of a frame that would fit. Sorry. I just guessed at your weight and ran the numbers you posted. I never really thought about it too much but its funny your inseam is longer than mine by an inch, yet your overall reach is shorter, and our differnce in height is only maybe 1-1/2". The top tube on my custom frame is 598 mm.
I will ask around about a stock frames and custom ones, and contact via pm. I do not think the tube geometry would work with lugs, I might draw it up and see, also I do not think the bottom bracket shells out there will work, the most common seat tube/down tube angle is 60, not even close to 62.8, lugs can be bent maybe 1 1/2 degrees 2 max what I have been told. Tig allows any geometry, and it is lighter. Looks aside welding is a better solution for odd angle frames.
When do you need this bike? If I start asking around it would be good to know.

I think she can get plenty close with lugs. My Mercian road bike is a 61cm c-t seat tube with a 57.5 cm top tube. The head and seat angles are both 73 degrees. Paterek isn't necessarily gospel either. It's time to talk to frame builders instead of just random forum posters.

Bob Brown http://bobbrowncycles.com/ can do just about anything with lugs.
Mercian is a more affordable alternative: http://www.merciancycles.com/
Also there are the previously mentioned Bilenky and Beckman.

oknups 10-13-05 10:18 PM

[QUOTE=halfspeed]I think she can get plenty close with lugs. My Mercian road bike is a 61cm c-t seat tube with a 57.5 cm top tube. The head and seat angles are both 73 degrees. Paterek isn't necessarily gospel either. It's time to talk to frame builders instead of just random forum posters.


I agree Paterek is not gospel nor Bill Boston nor any of them. I posted this quandry to the good folks on the frame builders list. Hoping someone will come to bat, and build lorrer a bike.
Lugs only bend so much, 2 degrees maximum according to Henry James, and Kirk Pacenti who provide most of the investment cast lugs, and bb shells used by custom builders in the usa. Thats why I thought lugs were out. I have not drawn it up yet, but I still do not think the st/dt angle will work looking at a 2.8 degree bend at the bottom bracket shell. Maybe things can get tweaked around and still maintain the same geometry, don't know.
TIG is great way to build a frame, no worries about angles, cut your tube copes (or miters) and weld away. I do not need a tig welder and odd angles, lugs fit my personal geometry fine without bending them. I am not a professional builder, but I do understand the principals and do not worry about what it costs me to build a bicycle frame. Doubt I will make more than 6 frames period. I can only ride them one at a time. Looking forward to the introduction of reynolds 953 next year I am on the list and ready to buy a tube set, as soon as they come up with a price.
Draw it up, see if you can make it work with the lugs, and bb shells that are available. I doubt it will work.

NoReg 10-13-05 10:18 PM

Halfspeed, could you cram yourself on a 58 with those specs? Lorrer is obviously willing to go the custom frame route, but for everyone else out there with similar specs, is it "necesarry".

halfspeed 10-13-05 11:01 PM


Originally Posted by Peterpan1
Halfspeed, could you cram yourself on a 58 with those specs? Lorrer is obviously willing to go the custom frame route, but for everyone else out there with similar specs, is it "necesarry".

Problem with a 58 is saddle to bar drop. Shorter seat tube means more exposed seat post and more height above the bars. I'd need a lot of steerer with lots of spacers to make it work. Our tandem is around a 58 with a 58ish top tube in the front. I've got a short stem with a lot of rise on it to make it functional. It's OK for rides up to 30 miles with my wife but for loaded touring, no way.

The only way to know for sure is to try some bikes out.

halfspeed 10-13-05 11:05 PM

[QUOTE=oknups]

Originally Posted by halfspeed
I think she can get plenty close with lugs. My Mercian road bike is a 61cm c-t seat tube with a 57.5 cm top tube. The head and seat angles are both 73 degrees. Paterek isn't necessarily gospel either. It's time to talk to frame builders instead of just random forum posters.


I agree Paterek is not gospel nor Bill Boston nor any of them. I posted this quandry to the good folks on the frame builders list. Hoping someone will come to bat, and build lorrer a bike.
Lugs only bend so much, 2 degrees maximum according to Henry James, and Kirk Pacenti who provide most of the investment cast lugs, and bb shells used by custom builders in the usa. Thats why I thought lugs were out. I have not drawn it up yet, but I still do not think the st/dt angle will work looking at a 2.8 degree bend at the bottom bracket shell. Maybe things can get tweaked around and still maintain the same geometry, don't know.
TIG is great way to build a frame, no worries about angles, cut your tube copes (or miters) and weld away. I do not need a tig welder and odd angles, lugs fit my personal geometry fine without bending them. I am not a professional builder, but I do understand the principals and do not worry about what it costs me to build a bicycle frame. Doubt I will make more than 6 frames period. I can only ride them one at a time. Looking forward to the introduction of reynolds 953 next year I am on the list and ready to buy a tube set, as soon as they come up with a price.
Draw it up, see if you can make it work with the lugs, and bb shells that are available. I doubt it will work.

You know more about frame building than I do and I certainly can't explain away your concerns about lugs, but I have a garage full of lugged bikes with geometry very close to what we're discussing.

vosyer 10-26-05 01:02 AM

Lots of information going on in this thread. Just a few comments though. Time is on your side. Make sure you know what your measurements are. Keep checking Ebay and Craig's lists throughout the country daily. My current tourer is a Waterford 1900 which believe or not I got on ebay new for $1200 with a Ultegra triple and STI and xt rear der. Although it's a nice frame I am picky so I switched the STI to durace barends and the cranks to a sugino AT with raceface 9 speed rings (48,36,26). The point I am trying to make is that you have lots of choices. Take your time. I agree with alot of what's been written to date accept that you can do alot with a standard frame in stead of a custom frame with stems and crank lengths. I'm also in favor of used complete bike or a frame purchase with a build up - the fact of the matter is that people well intentioned people buy bikes but ride them very little which eventually get sold for substantial discount - plus dealer liquidations occur a lot. Also many well off riders turnover their bikes more often than their cars. Case in point I purchased a Waterford rs22 frame for $400 recently - these frame go for $2200 today - so my advice take your time get to know your parts and find a LBS that can do the work you .

vosyer 10-30-05 09:43 PM

My local LBS and I talked at length yesterday about your sizing issue nothing seems to indicate that you need a custom frame. It will get confusing wether you are using a sloping top tube or staight top tube or for that matter 700c tires or 26 inch, mountain or road frame, or staight or road bars - but lots can be done with size of stem , spacers, and crank arm length. Because everyone is making a plug for a custom frame builders - R&E cycles in Seattle - they make a lot of touring bikes for women for pretty reasonable prices if you are thinking new.


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