nobody4422

Hi my name's Phill, and Im new to these forums and the concept of cycle touring in general.

Im inexperienced with all the technical aspects of bikes and cycling that Ive come across while trying to research and plan a trip. And so I figured the best way to learn would be to ask the people who have done it.

About me and my trip

Age: 21
Weight: 140 lbs (sorry dont know kilos)
Physical Condition: Moderate but healhty
Destination: Japan
Duration: Until funds run out (optimally at least 1 month)
Prep Time: appx 1 Year
Travel type: Self contained touring
Travel experience: Mod/high
Camping experience: Low/None

Originally I was planning my trip as a creditcard backpacking tour of the country, but after learning about the price of hostels and the rail pass, I started looking for ways to cut my expenses and increase the duration of my trip. I decided camping was the best way to go to avoid the $30 a night it would cost to stay in hostels. Travel took me a little longer to figure out, since the railpass was out I was going to just walk and take trains. But walking would be too slow (and probably hellish with a heavy pack) and having been to Japan before, I know that train fares can add up fast. I finally figured that bicycling would not olny offer an economical solution but be an interesting way to see the whole of the country and not just a blur through the window.

To make a long story shot, (too late I know) Im in the research stage of the trip and need information about bicycles and tuoring in general. I have a friend who is very experienced in survival camping (think tarp and emergency blanket) so I intend to tap that informational resource as well.

And now without further ado, my questions (Oh and Ive already searched the forum and read at least some the newbie guide and touring 101 but couldnt find the answers)

Budget:
About how much money shoud I expect to spend on gear for an extended tour, if starting from scratch? Im looking to spend less than 1000, is it feasible?


Bike type:
How do touring, hybrid and comfort bikes compare for extended tours like the one Im hoping for?
Touring bikes are really expensive, so if I can get away with a cheaper hybrid or comfort bike with a small sacrifice to comfort or speed Id go that route.
What about weight tolerance?
What about their riding positions, is having options best?

700c v 26":
Ive been reading different things about each of them and cant really decide which is right for the job. Ive read that 700c are easier to pedal but are a bit more difficult to find andhave trouble supprting the weight of a self supported tour. What are your recomendations.

Bike shops:
Are expnesive and hard to find. Are less expensive bikes that you would find at a decent sporting goods store (Dicks sporting goods) really that bad?
I know you get what you pay for and some of the components are lower quality, but will it get the job done with decent reliablity and comfort?
Since most people have to tweak their bikes anyway, even high end bikes from bike shops, does it really matter if I go the cheaper route on the frame/brand?

Tech:
What are some things that I should look for in a bike in terms of commponents?
What are some red-flags?
Ive only been able to find a couple things to look for in a bike and nothing to look out for besides people saying dont by department store bikes. Even then though, Ive seen a couple people recommend buying a cheap bike and tweaking it to save money.
My list so far
Wheels- 36 spokes, 22mm wide aluminum
Gears- At least 21 speed, 24-28 teeth on the small gear, 30-34 on the largest, triple chainring (which I think means 3 gears attached directly to the pedal arms)
Frame- 1.5 - 2.25in clearance between top bar and groin, rack mounts

Bags & rack:
Do you use panniers on both sides of the bike, or just one?
Just one - how does that effect balance
Both - does the chain get in the way?
Do/can you use panniers in combination with with a trunk bag, or does that put too much weight of the rack?
Whats a good weight distribution thoughout the bike?

Travel:
I intend train in the US before I go, Im guessing I should avoid highways and go secondary state roads?
Regular maps arent really that easy to navigate, espcially when it comes to secondary roads, but carrying numerous street atlases could easily become cumbersome. What would you suggest as a comprimise?
Where would you get them for foreign countries.

Other:
Am I asking the right questions?

Im sure I have more, but I need to get going, and I figure this is enough for now anyway.
Thanks

BigNoseWhipper

damn

CdCf

Simply incorrect. Tyre width, pressure and construction are the important factors. A smaller wheel is always faster when wheel size is taken as a factor alone.

nobody4422

I forgot a really important question

Am I asking the right questions.


Yeah, I know its long, but I like to do my research before making any kinds of large purchases like this. Ive been burned too many times in the past.

Any little bit of information I can get helps.

avatarworf

I think with so many questions you should keep reading a bit more, maybe get a good all round book on touring. And just get out and cycle. You will pick up a lot in the first few months. We only really started getting into cycling just after Christmas and knew nothing as well, but we've picked up a reasonable knowledge base fairly quickly. I think $1000 sounds tight for a budget starting from scratch for gear but then, we had a bit of cash to spare and splurged on all the ultra light stuff so maybe I'm not the one to ask. You'll want at least 2 back panniers for a 1 month trip so the balance question doesn't really come into play.

Losligato

You can do it on $1000! My wife's touring bike cost a grand total of $14.99 at a thrift store and mine was just a bit more. Get everything second hand.... it does not have to be the best or the lightest...it just needs to keep peddling. You can do it.

supcom

Be sure to research the availability of campgrounds in Japan. since you've been there, presumably you have some idea already.


Since you apparently have no equipment, staying under $1000 is going to be difficult. A good bike, if new, will eat up most, or all of this budget.

Having multiple hand positions is a very good thing. Hand numbness is second only to saddle pain.

For a loaded touring bike, the wheel and tire size will have very little impact on your speed or range. You will, of course, want slick tread tires. No knobbies.

You do not have to buy a very high end bike for touring. Although it can, and is, done, you will get few recommendations for a department store "toy" bike here. You will be universally advised to visit a bike shop with a good recommendation where the staff can help you select a bike that fits your needs, your budget, and your body. Although a bicycle in an LBS may seem to be expensive, it probably has the least markup of anything in the shop. You will almost certainly be happier with a better bike.

Buying a cheap bike and fixing it up can be an economical way to go. There are many good older bikes available. So long as you know what you are buying and have a good understanding of how to work on it and what to buy. I have ridden thousands of mies on a thrift store bike that I fixed up. However, the cost of all the upgrades was probably close to that of a new bike of equivalent quality by the time I was done!

You will want a triple chainring. Most good bikes come with at least 9-speed rear cogs.

You will want panniers on both sides of the bike. The panniers fit outboard of the chain - it's not a problem. You will probably not want a trunk bag because you will likely be strapping your tent or other gear on top of the rack. If not, you certainly can use a trunk bag. I don't use panniers so someone else will need to advise on weight distribution.

Most of your training will most likely be day trips. You can make a map by hand, take a state map, use a program like TopoUSA, etc. to generate a route map. Since you are likely to be travelling only about 60 or so miles in a day, you don't need a big map. You can also use a mapping GPS like a Garmin Legend to help guide you, but that will take a good bite out of your budget.


I recommend you start by selecting a bike and start riding. Since you have no bike yet, you need to begin getting into condition. As you can afford it, buy additional equipment and start thinking about taking some weekend trips to a state park or some place you can camp for the night. Get used to using the gear and learn what things you need to have and what things are heavy luxuries. Always look toward lightweight gear and buy good quality stuff. Remember, cheap tents only leak when it rains.

nobody4422

Thanks a bunch everyone. So far everything has been a great help.

I suppose that I am getting a little ahead of myself. Im just a little excited about the propect of travel and having a bike again. Its been a long time.

The bike is my main concern right about now, but I still have about two weeks of research time before I will make my purchase so do I still have a good amount of time before I can really get started.



Thanks for your patience.

Cave

You are not in the market for a new dedicated touring bike or a custom build. Your budget means you need to buy second hand, or alternatively a good but economical mass market bike. Keep in mind that a bike for touring dosen't have to be marketed as a touring bike; lots of hybrids make great bikes for road touring.

Things you need:

Comfortable posture for long-distance, moderate-intensity riding:
1. Your back should be at about 45 degrees. This means that the handlebars and saddle need to be at about the same height, or the bars slightly higher. You will initially be more comfortable sitting upright, but this is not best for efficiency or longer-term comfort.
2. Handlebars: Most people find it more comfortable to have the thumbs pointing forwards or angled, rather than pointing inwards. In your price range, you will probably have mountain bike bars; bar ends are pretty good at making things more comfortable. Drop bars give you more positions and a crouched-over "racing" posture, but aren't really necessary; as long as you can go between thumbs in and thumbs forwards, you will be able to give your wrists and palms a rest. If you do get drop bars, make sure they are wide enough - most are narrow, racing drops, even on older touring bikes.
3. Make sure the front wheel dosen't hit your toes when you turn the front wheel. I still find this annoying on my bike.

The ability to carry a load safely and stably
1. Strong frame. Light racing frames may flex or break.
2. Rack mounts, or a trailer. The simplest and cheapest is to use racks/panniers; you need to have eyelets to mount most panniers. Ususally 2 eyelets at the back, 1 at the front (on each side) - this allows mudguards and a rear rack.
3. Weight distribution: Most of the weight on a bike is at the back; if you add 15-20 kg of gear to the back, it can get scary cornering and braking at speed. Also, really steep hills are harder. On the other hand, you either need special rack mounts on the fork, or special racks, to attach front racks; also, you can get by with rear racks only as long as you don't have too much bulky stuff. Many non-touring bikes don't cater for front racks.

That's it. Everything else is relative. It dosen't really matter if it is a touring / road / mountain / recumbent / penny farthing bicycle, as long as it gets you and your stuff there.

Touring-specific bikes are expensive. I love mine (apart from the toe overlap), but realistically there is nothing I can do on it that I couldn't do on my hybrid, and the drop bars vs. flat-with-bar-ends thing is not as big a deal as many people make out (but *definitely* get bar ends if you are on MTB bars).

Bike shops build the bikes better, service the bikes as part of the cost, and know more about bikes (although not always about touring - they may try to convince you to buy an unsuitable bike!). Shop around at various bike shops and test ride heaps.

If you buy new, bikes with mountain bike parts (26-in. MTBs or 700c hybrids) will be significantly cheaper than bikes with road bike parts. The MTB parts are also more robust and easier to get reasonable gearing with. So, at your price point, you are probably best off with a hybrid. Avoid suspension, and get one that has a flat, stretched-out posture rather than a sitting-up posture. I have seen good bikes by Shogun, Allegro, Jamis, Avanti that would make good tourers.

Parts:
-Although 9- speed is good these days, 8-speed is reliable and cheap. Alivio is the "reasonable" quality gears on most mass market bikes; you may be able to upgrade to Deore at little cost. Shimano gears will give you the best vaue at this price point, they are made in huge quantities.
-V-brakes are great. Tektro make good cheap brakes. Avoid discs - you need to pay more for quality, and adjustments can be a pain (although V-brakes can also need some adjusting).
-Avoid suspension. It is a gimick on a road/touring bike. You only benefit from it on really rough terrain.
- Save some money for a good sleeping bag and an adequate tent.
- Racks and bags - you can spend the earth, but as long as it carries your stuff and dosen't break it is good enough.

Good luck, perhaps you can find a good 2nd-hand tourer, otherwise go for a comfortable bike that dosen't cost you too much!

eleanor

If you like reading, you could check out a couple of books by Josie Dew, an English girl who has cycled extensively in Japan (and pretty much everywhere else in the world). I don't know if you're as small and cute as she is, but she found that in Japan people kept inviting her to stay with them, and strangers kept giving her food. She once had a schoolgirl rush up to her in the street, thrust an icecream into her hands and run off giggling. She spent apparently next to no cash due to the generosity of the people and her devil-may-care strategy of knocking on people's doors and asking if she could camp on their tea-towel-sized lawns. That may not necessarily be an approach that appeals to you, but I recommend her books for a bit of inspiration.

https://www.josiedew.co.uk/

Her books on japan are:
A RIDE IN THE NEON SUN: A Gaijin in Japan
THE SUN IN MY EYES: Two-Wheeling East

nobody4422

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I think Ive made my decision on what bike Im going to purchase and should hopefully have it by the week end.

Despite (or maybe in spite) of advice to the contrary Im eyeing up a hybrid bike, Diamondback Menona I think, that I saw at a local Dicks Sporting goods for around 300 or so. The component parts used are also used on various Trek bikes so I think Im ok there and even though its not a full bike shop,they do fittings, tune-ups, repairs, and seem knowledgable enough. And unlike the bikeshops I found in my area, Im comfortable there (I dont know why but the bike shops gave off a wierd vibe). Its not set in stone though.

The next step after my bike is to find a library or bookstore within riding distance and start reading up on Japan, and touring. Ive already read a couple online articles, and it seems most peopel have had similarly good experiences there. (just curious, does anyone know of anyone having a particularly bad experience?)

Anywho, one step at a time and Ill let you guys know how the bike works out.

Thanks for your support an Ill try not to over-analyse the rest of my planning.