The 67 is a great saddle. I have both 17 and 67's and I use them interchangeably on centuries.

Patience my son. Epiphaney awaits you. There, just ahead. Over the mount, through the misted vale...

Remember thou, the True Flagellants. Comfort and Bliss is only achieved by Diligence of the Spirit and the Denial of Buyer's Remorse. Surely, thy skin shall be as hardened stone by way of The Forming of the Hide, and thickened upon thee, by way of ridicule from the Unwashed. Pay no heed to the Syntheticists, and the Children of the Bike Shop.

Be thou blessed,
Knight of the Wicking Hide, 10th Order

Yes master. I'm sorry for my impetulence. My bum will not stray and it will not want.

After riding Brookses on my other bikes, the Selle San Marco on my geared 29er feels like I'm riding the serious end of a hatchet.

Are you doing anything for break-in? Otherwise, it probably is ... "stiff and rigid as a steel bar."

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...88#post5927188

I haven't done anything with it yet. The impression I got from reading the forums was that I should try to break it in without oiling it first. I will be putting 50 miles on it tomorrow and then again on Friday.

And yes, it feels something like "The Real MAN ® saddle" from www.sheldonbrown.com.

That may be the looong road to conditioning.

You can purchase a pre-conditioned B-17 from Brooks for about $20-$40 extra. A conditioned Brooks is said to be the equivalent of one-year of pre-aging; and a Brooks pre-aged saddle has nothing to do with applying weight to the saddle for a year.

You have to remember Brooks saddles are products developed back when:

- no one knew what ADD was
- there was no FEDEX overnight service
- you couldn't heat up a frozen dinner in the microwave in under 7 mins

Good things come to those who wait - or in this case who ride their bike. I wouldn't be afraid to put a reasonable application of Proofide on your saddle, but beyond that I'd just use it.

I rode it into work today. It was not a life changing experience or anything, but it was not uncomfortable at all.

25 miles and it is already starting to show the slightest of impressions in the right spots. Keep in mind, I have a rather slight build, (5'11'' 145 lbs) so I feared that it might take me longer to break in a saddle. However, my wife pointed out that my sit bones are VERY pronounced, (on the few occasions that I have sat on her lap, she said it felt like someone just "frogged" her in the thigh) which might accelerate the break-in period.

Anyhoo, my point is that I now know that I can ride patiently and await "bum-nirvana."

You have the right idea. It takes a little longer for lighter riders. At 245lbs, I start forming a 17 at about 100 miles. At 300, it's all mine, but it still keeps forming for another 600-800 miles. Then, since I don't get too excited about applying the unguents and salves, it stops just where it needs to.

It's funny, but it won't be a lifechanging experience at all. But one day you will be riding along and think... Wow, I've come this far and my butt doesn't hurt (as much as it used to).

I recall a female Canadian cyclist who frequents these forums being as dubious as you and she has a slighter build. I recommended strongly the Brooks route for her, and had my heart in my mouth as I awaited each progress post on how the saddle felt.

Now she is a big advocate of them, AND she wants another one for her trainer bike!!!!

I lost on eBay last night for a slightly used B17 after the bidding went a bit crazy, but I will keep tracking around for another two (a honey for me and a black for her) .

I have two different Brooks, a Swift TI and a B17 Pro, and both have been ridden in rain...but I keep them covered with a Velox saddle cover when in rain even though it's likely that the saddles would probably be ok without the covers-I'm probably just anal about it.

Also I don't break my saddles in using Profide as others do, I break them in naturally which takes longer but I feel the results are better...but I could be wrong about that; but I do use it afterwards for sweat and water protection.

If you know where the impresions are going to be, just take something bonier, like your thumbs, or a golf ball, and press down a little harder than you could reasonably expect your tush to. Instant broken in Brooks. Don't try to upset a wide area. Once it gets started it will proceed at a rapid pace to conform to you. You only want the smallest possible area to upset.

Proofide is not used to break-in saddles. It provides a temporary waterproofing effect for the top side but no more than that.

This is not good advice because your thumbs cannot duplicate the exact place, position or depth that only you sit bones can provide. That's akin to saying to break in a pair of shoes just put you hands into the shoe and bend and twist or whatever,

That's not entirely correct, here is a product diffinition: "It basically has two roles: It helps accelerate the time in which your new Brooks will conform to your body and pedaling style. It also helps protect the leather exterior of your saddle over the long haul. Since Proofide is a semi-solid blend of natural fats, it won't fill the pores of the leather (unlike oil), allowing it to breathe. This breathability -- or what Brooks refers to as "porosity" -- is essential to saddle comfort. Invisible pores in animal hides provide natural ventilation, which means a Brooks saddle always feels cool, no matter the temperature. Proofide helps ensure this coolness over the many, many years in which you'll own your Brooks. But there has been advice given over the years (not by Brooks) to put liberal amounts of Proofied on the tops AND bottoms of saddles to soften the leather a bit to speed up the break in period."

Some has even gone as far as to say to treat the saddle with oil used in baseball gloves-this is poor advice because the saddle is a hammock and the oil will soften up the leather too much and destroy the hammock effect.

Some people will give advice to use other products to either soften the saddle or waterproof it, but keep in mind Brooks says in their warranty that using ANY OTHER product besides Proofide will VOID their warranty. So if you use any other product do so with the knowledge that if a warranty issue occurs your tough out of luck; for some they may not care about the warranty or warranty no longer exists so who cares. Brooks has been making saddles for over 100 years, I think they know what's best to use on their saddles.

Suggestions for the proper care and treatment of the top (treated) side of a new Brooks-17:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...74#post5948374

Not working your leather is like having a muscle that you're afraid to stretch.

I have purchased 3 different Brooks B-17 saddles on e-bay and they are all GREAT. However I am SURE they were sold because their original purchasers felt like you do - but sold them instead of persevering. I used mine (unbroken) in outback Australia and after several days it was feeling FINE. After a week noticed it felt really good AND my bum felt cool even though I was sweating "profusely"...

I still have 2 saddles because I bought them for my sons - who now have very little interest in bicycling. Oh well, once gasoline gets to $1.50 a leter here in Canada they will change their minds ;-)

Your feeling of regret will soon go away - only to be replaced by a feeling similar to: "Boy, am I ever SMART and glad that I have kept this saddle.."

One question about the Champion model: is it a model specific to the North American market or what? Because I've checked the Brooks catalogue and I couldn't find it anywhere. And is it just for B17 saddles or are other models "Champion" too?
I'm just curious, I ordered a Team Professional in Europe, had a thorough look around European shops/online shops for which model would be best suited for me and never found any mention of a Champion model. I think that the Champion model is sold only on US online shops.

The B17 Special in the Brooks catalog is what is sold in the US as the B17 Champion Special. I don't know why there is a difference in the name. I bought my "Champion Special" from Harris Cyclery. It's Champion Special on the web site, but the box says "B17 Spec."

Speedo

***UPDATE***
Two and a half commutes on the saddle now, (~125 miles). The butt divots are not any more pronounced than they were, but there is just slightly more "wrinkling" in those spots. I'm not noticing a huge difference from the first day, but like I said, it's not uncomfortable at all. Even with its rigidness, I can feel it absorbing impact from the pavement.
I did give the bottom side a going over with bee's-wax based leather treatment over the weekend. We are expecting rain later this week and even though I ride with fenders, I wanted to apply a little protection.

The TRUTH will set you FREE... but first it will make you MISERABLE ;-)

Enjoy the ride.

The designator "Champion" can be found on all B17's. There is the Brooks Champion Standard B17, Brooks Champion Special B17, and the Brooks Champion Narrow B17.

I think the Brooks Champion Flyer is also designated in the same way, since it is a B17 with springs.

The Special has larger copper rivets that are hand hammered, like the Pro.

There are several confusing statements on the Brooks site. I can't cite them all now but at least a couple have to do with the use of Proofide itself, and what exactly it does for the saddle.

Got it.
At least there is nothing confusing about the "Champion" model, which is not mentioned once on the Brooks site. It pretty much confirms that for some reason this name is used only for the North American market. Don't really see why though...

Also I've seen that Brooks have setup their own online shop now, and boy they're not going to get my money, it's freaking expensive!
I ordered a Team Professional Copper two weeks ago from BikePlus for 41 GBP (okay, it was a sale price), the same one on the Brooks online shop is 90 GBP...!

I've had several Brooks saddles and still have a B17 Champion Special. The Champion Special is the same as a regular B17 except it has copper rivets and rails, and perhaps the leather is thicker. My B17s have all been comfortable right out of the box, but they do get even better with time. Currently I'm not using my B17 because I found another saddle (Fizik Vitesse) that is just as comfortable for me and weighs less than half as much. Hard to beat that, but I'm keeping the B17 for a future project.

The Proofide that Brooks sells is recommended for helping preserve the leather. It's just as important or more so to apply the Proofide to the bottom of the saddle as well as the top. That keeps it from absorbing as much water from wheel spray if you get caught in the rain.

The biggest problem I've had with Brooks saddles is adjusting them properly. The rails are short, so it is difficult sliding them back far enough on frames with steep seat tube angles. I was going to use my B17 on my De Bernardi steel bike that I use for commuting, but the frame has a 74 ST angle and I can't move the saddle back enough without installing a setback seat post. My Merckx bikes have relaxed ST angles (72.5), so I am just barely able to use a B17 on them without a setback post. The other setup issue with Brooks is that most people find that they need to elevate the nose of the saddle higher than the rear. Until I did that, I always felt like I was sliding forward on my Brooks. When I finally got it adjust right, it looked wierd because the nose was so much higher than the back.