Niles H.

Hi Jonas,

I've been in some very similar situations. My father also had a lot of money, and was willing to help. I've faced some similar decisions.

One point that seems to be arising is your relationship with your father, and in particular the issue of dependence/independence.

My suggestion to you: when you come to a fork in the road, choose independence. It just feels a lot better. Freedom and independence count for a lot in life.

Some fathers make it too easy. They almost do a disservice (without meaning to).

It seems like a central issue.

Whether your independence and freedom are best served by a bike trip is unanswerable. It will depend on you, and on a variety of other factors.

Whether the independence and freedom are best served by getting a degree (or money, or the right job) is also unanswerable. It will also depend on you, and on a great many variables.

****
Facing uncertainties in life is interesting. Many people turn to others for advice or support.

The largeness and uncertainties of the wilderness tends to scare people to some extent. They want someone to hold their hand. They want someone to guide them and tell them what to do, to protect them and tell them where to go, which turns to take, etc.

Maybe the major turn, in finding independence or freedom, is an inner turn, independent of external circumstances.

Why hand over your power -- which amounts, in a sense, to allowing the usurpation of your life -- when you don't need to do so?

****
As far as careers and finding the right vocation go: Maybe the true and central vocation is finding out what truth and real freedom are, and living in them.

snusmumriken

vik's proposal sounds very, very fun, but I don't think I will do that now.

About the whole "TEFL in China" idea, it won't be carried out. I think there is a decent amount of wisdom Machka and Bacciagalupe's post. The super-cheap offering of a TEFL course and a follow-up job is most likely a scam. Other TEFL courses are much more expensive; not like in Europe, but adding the airplane ticket it will be too much. I'll forget about it.

Bacciagalupe, I am supposed to fly to Lyon December 30th. I don't absolutely have to, though.

I have talked to my parents, and we all seem to agree that if I really want to realise this idea of an Asian bicycle adventure, I should get a job and earn some money before I go. Doing that will also provide me with more time to prepare for the journey. If I want to, I can get a TELF certificate before I go, or somewhere in Asia.

If I decide to get a job now (in Western Europe, because of the salaries) there's really no hurry planning things, but I still don't see why flying somewhere to bicycle is such a great thing. What and how much I see of Asia is not determined by my place of departure. I can go exactly the same route whether I start in Europe or in Asia.

I guess I'll catch the flight to Lyon and head south to look for work. I'll be looking for something in the countryside because of significantly lower living expenses (more money to save for my trip), but I dunno if anything will turn up using the method of just "going to look for work". Any experiences? Perhaps there are some "agencies" or organizations that can help me get a job in the countryside? Hm. I will have to do some research on this now.

Anyway, the content of the previous paragraph is not really relevant to this thread or this forum. If you have some good advice, please write me, but otherwise I'll probably figure things out myself. Even though it looks like I am postponing the trip a few months, the thread is still very open for opinions and advice. I am very grateful for all the help I've had so far, and for whatever help I will get.

I think I should plan my trip according to the climate, at least. I can handle high temperatures, but I cannot handle physical activity in high temperatures. Or, I mean; I can do anything, but in my case, climate may easily prove to be the main determining factor for my enjoyment of bicycle touring. Maybe it's because I'm from Norway.

Machka 

Check out temp agencies ... like Manpower, for example. I saw several Manpower offices when I was in France this past August.

And yes, checking out weather patterns is a good idea ... as is keeping an eye on political situations.

tzuohann

hmmm... lets see, i ended college with $6500 USD and no bike, no flight, no visas, no camping equipment. nothing, basically.

bought all equipment for $2000, flights and visas for $750 and flew to LA, rode to DC in 38 days spending $13 a day. one night in a hotel after scare from a mad dude.

flew to dublin with approx $3500 and had to spend a bit more on equipment. up till iran, i spent say $10 on accomodation. in iran, spent about $30 on accomodation. $20 in uzbekistan and zero elsewhere until i got to china where its $2 a night or so. almost back at the pacific with $2000 left to get back to malaysia.

so, can it be done? YES! its VERY possible. just rough it out!

my trip is ongoing and has some detail on spending so you might want to look at it.

www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/longwayhome

snusmumriken

tzuohann, thank you for very useful information. This means (as I know, really) that I can leave right now, but that I'll probably still stick to my "common sense" and earn some more money first. After all, these money were given me for other uses.

Also, I feel like travelling slower, so I'd probably spend much more time than you reaching the pacific. (Not slower to avoid the physical activity of cycling, but slower to have more time to breath in and experience the environments I am travelling through.)

One question: You mention accommodation in Iran and Uzbekistan, for instance. Did you feel that it was necessary while travelling there?

And I have been reading your journal for the past days. It's very enjoyable.

I wish you the best of luck completing your trip!


Machka, I will do that, thank you.

Niles H.

If you don't mind an alternative point of view here: it can be boring to live safely.

There are some widely contrasting views and versions of this, and of living more freely/dangerously. Some of them appear in On the Road, others in Into the Wild; and there are many others.

Someone once said something very pointed on this topic. He said that most people choose a safe life, and so they die a safe death.

****
(Sean Grady's Endless Summer is a very interesting journal, which speaks to some of your points, as is Marcus McShane's.)

DukeArcher 

If you want some more inspiration, check out Alastair Humphreys. He started off on a world bike tour with a plan of heading through Asia to Oz, but went south through Africa to Cape Town due to political problems. Four years of cycling round the world on a budget of £6000!!

www.roundtheworldbybike.com

Niles H.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=28116&v=9k

Brains

You speak good English
Go to London
Get a **** job, waiting tables or something, anything will do - get more money and wait for better weather
Go live a squat as rent is the killer in big cities
Buy a bike. if you can get a 2nd Thorn, then great, Brick Lane is the place to get top spec bikes cheap (as they are all stolen)
Mid April/Early May, make a date now, get a ferry to Zebrugge
Cycle up the Rhein and down the Danube to arrive in Istambul July.
If money left go east, if not go for Cairo vias land or Cyprus or home

snusmumriken

Dude, you don't need to tell me this. I know. It's in my soul. I'd be on the road now if I'd earned the €3500 myself. My dad already told me they were mine to use, although he deeply hopes they will be used for something he thinks will make my life simpler. More secure. Good? Bad? I dunno, but it's nice of him.

So although I totally agree with you, and although I see that these money can sustain me for a long, long time, I'll go about trying to earn some money myself. The link you posted me later is excellent. I'll read some more of his journal.

Brains, it's a good plan. If fishing for a job in France does not reward, I'll probably go to England. Or actually, if money is the only thing I'm going for, I'd stay in Norway. But I believe I want some adventure supplied with the money. So a country where I cannot speak the language makes a good starting point. Maybe that will prevent me from finding something, though. Time will show.. Thanks, anyway.

DukeArcher, great link. Thank you.

tzuohann

hey jonas, to answer your questions.

in iran, i spent on accomodation when i was sick for 3 days and when i was near the turkmenistan border and wanted to spent the rest of my iranian rials. besides, camping near borders is not too wise, might bump into an overzealous border guard.

in uzbekistan, i was told about a register every night rule and went to a hotel for the first night before bumping into cyclists who said they don't care about the rule.

in china, its so cheap to stay at places, esp if you speak chinese (i assume you do not) so i rather sleep in beds instead of risking tearing my hammock/sleeping bag and nonsense like that from camping.

BASICALLY, from my experience, its safer for a person to camp east of europe than anywhere else. you are more likely to meet a**h*l*s in western nations, punks or drunk college age kids just being stupid, or someone with a gun. in the east, you might have more ppl wanting a small thing from your bike just because they are so poor and because a guy on a bike is a novelty, but the further east you go, the friendlier people are. that is generally true, tho ppl are downright rude and not welcoming in china. they are honest and safe etc, just rude and unaccomodating. and, from what you describeded yourself to be, i think you are willing to camp anywhere, which is what i did, no problems at all.

if i were you, i'd work so you can make more cash and wait out the lousy weather and scout until you find the bike of your dreams matching your pocket. i don't know where to work or what bike to get etc. but i would do that.

when the weather gets warm (you plan it out) head east, and be close to south china by the time it gets cold again next year, and spend the rest of the time in SEA where it is warm. that way, you safe on equipment and having to use accomodation for bad weather days. if you come to malaysia, let me know, always a guest here.

BUT, if i were indeed you, i'd plan to leave in a week.

BTW, china has great bikes for touring at low prices. there is a complete ready to go bike for $300. get orthlieb panniers in germany on ebay. they are cheap there, and are good.

and, im doing a detailled breakdown of my costs when i get home in 70 days, so check the journal then.

i did go to bricklane but it was closed. but after being on the road, i WOULD NOT go to brick lane coz it creates a market for stolen bikes, and broken hearts for those on bikes with similar dreams as yours.

snusmumriken

You would go in one week? I still could, theoretically. However, I think I'll go hitchhiking on the French countryside wearing a sign that says, in French, "I SERIOUSLY NEED WORK". We'll see if it'll bring me something.

Thank you for very useful information about campinig. I am happy to hear.

From a pragmatic point of view, I support your view on Brick Lane.

Good luck.

vik 

If your goal is now to raise money for a cycling trip why don't you do the following:
- live at home and work so your cost of living is low to nil
- buy a touring bike now with some of your money [you can replace it with money you earn if you don't want to use your father's $$$ for a cycling trip]
- learn to ride, fix and equip your bike while you earn your travel $$$, go on some short tours near home to validate your equipment choices and improve your skills. Who knows you may not actually enjoy cycle touring at all. Certainly a long international cycle tour is going to be much more challenging than finding an apartment and job in France. A long cycle tour is also - well long! - you have to want to do the same thing for an extended period of time which takes more than a fleeting level of commitment to an idea.
- by the time you have earned your travel money, if you have been riding your bike, daily and doing shorter tours you'll have the confidence in your bike and your cycle touring skills - as well as some idea that whole project is an undertaking you will enjoy.

BTW - Tzuo's comment about going right now highlights the fact that people talk a lot of sh*t with regards to extended tours and other challenging undertakings. It is easy to chat about riding through SE Asia from Europe, it is fun to talk about it, chat online about it, but very few people actually do it....I'm just guessing here, but probably a very small % of the people chatting online about some huge trip will ever get their adventure started - it is too much work, too much risk, too much loss of comfort. So if you want to break out of that paradigm of talking, but not doing the simple way is to get on a bike and start riding today practicalities be damned. I think a lot of people can related to the story of having some wild adventure planned when they were young, deciding to take some time to earn money for the trip and realizing 10 years later that they never actually went anywhere with that dream - instead they are living in a comfortable house with their wife and kids going everyday to a good job. Not to say that is a bad life, but just be aware if you delay your dreams you allow for more and more chance they'll never happen.

snusmumriken

Thank you, vik. What you are proposing is, of course, the most sensible thing to do with regard to money, which is what I need. However, being fairly adventurous by nature, I feel opposed to the idea. I really want to learn French, I am really fed up with my home town, and I really feel better experiencing something new and challenging. Travelling the French countryside looking for work sounds good; it's just a pity if I won't find anything.

So, I would stay in my home town and find work here (I'm sure I could) if I knew it would be hard to find something in France. But I also happen to be an optimist, and I feel quite certain that something money-bringing will turn up in France.

We'll see.

But you got me thinking, and I will seriously reconsider leaving over the next 40 hours, when my plane is scheduled to depart. Time will show.

vik 

Hey Tzuo I just wanted to say thanks for posting your trip journal - besides being quite entertaining your travels are very inspirational. You are a great example that you can do some amazing things without having the best gear, a lot of experience and a ton of $$$ as long as you are willing to move past the talking/thinking about travel to actually doing it...

Good luck on the rest of your trip and don't forget this lesson as you move through the rest of your life...

eric von zipper

+1

Niles H.

This indicates something.

You're not doing what you want to do. Your spirit isn't happy about it.

Doesn't it also indicate that there is some kind of expectation tied to the money? Some kind of tie, subtle contract or condition(s)?

In that case, you aren't really free.

This amounts to a shackle. It's like being under contract.

****
You are dealing with some blockages to freedom and living in freedom.

I've been through this one with my father, and quite a bit.

The expectations may or may not be explicit.

They may or may not be entirely conscious, or entirely understood.

But they are there.

Sometimes the expectations are in one mind or the other; sometimes they are in both minds.

****
Looking back on it, my father would have been glad to support my freedom if he had just understood the basic principle at work, and the basic need.

The need for this sort of freedom is something in the soul. It is as important as other 'needs' -- like food and money and health. (It can probably be seen as an aspect of inner health, or a healthy spirit, or a free heart.)

He could have understood it, if we had just talked it out, and gotten down to the basic issues or principles.

He could have understood it if we had related it to his own life. He was a self-made man, and he liked it that way. What he took a long time to see is that I needed that too, and that he -- or more precisely his conditions were (unconsciously) getting in the way.

****
Another way of looking at it is simply in terms of the need to live your own life, and live it freely, according to your own soul rather than something else.

****
My father gave me a large gift of money to buy property. I felt obligated. This got in my way tremendously. There were some strings attached.

I searched for a solution for several years. I thought of giving him his money back, and being free of it. That would have been one solution.

Another would have been to try to get through to him, and to let him know that the strings (or conditions or expectations) were preventing me from pursuing things I really wanted to do with my life, including some things that he did not really understand or approve of.

He wanted to 'help' and 'guide' me, and ended up killing, or at least deadening my soul or spirit (for some time).

****
Another thing I could have said to him is, I need to be on my own. I'm happier that way.

Niles H.

"...these money were put off for me by my father, for me to use when I'd really need them. I don't really need this trip, although I have an incredibly strong desire to realise it."

Maybe your father can actually understand your need for a trip like this, if you can get through to him.

Maybe what you are feeling is a need for a wanderjahr (or something like it). Many fathers can relate to that and understand it. They were once young men themselves. They aren't always blind to these things; they aren't always so strange or foreign to them as it might appear at times.

Maybe you could keep your eyes open, while traveling, for ways of becoming financially independent [and you could discuss this with him -- make it clear that you are not just spending the money on a meaningless trip, but on something that is very meaningful to you, and also that while on the trip you will be looking and learning more about becoming financially independent -- and earning money on the way -- maybe that would not be (in his mind or yours) a violation of his gift to you. It would not be a misuse, but rather a good use of the money. It would not be irresponsible; it would not be a waste, but something very valuable. (It would also not be ignoring your soul or spirit, which (the ignoring of that) is itself irresponsible on another level.)

He might be able to see this, and give his blessings.].

****
You can learn a lot from fellow travelers. You don't have to know or have all the answers before you leave. There are other people out there traveling. You can learn a lot from them about all kinds of things -- including equipment, ways of earning money, lodging possibilities, various ways of dealing with parents and their expectations, etc., etc. -- and sometimes the answers appear as if from nowhere, like gifts. There are unplanned events and possibilities that just appear. You don't have to plan everything.

Overplanning can be deadly.

Some degree of planning makes sense; but there comes a point where it is better to have some cajones, and deal with the unknown more boldly. Timidity sucks.

You might find that life reaches out to meet you half way.

****
As far as earning money on the road: ask around; keep your eyes open. There are many ways.

A world cyclist I met earned his way through New Zealand by helping at harvest time (mainly picking apples).

If you want to check out some art and craft possibilities, there are many that can be explored. One way of seeing some of the possibilities is by Googling 'arts and crafts wiki' and then checking out specific ones, and the links.

If it appeals to you, spray paint art is one way of making some money while traveling. There are many, many others.

Most of these will not make a large amount of money; but you can make enough to stay alive and to bicycle tour. One unusual thing about bike touring is that it is (or can be) so cheap.

This means that you are not obligated to keep up with high expenses, which demands earning more money. You are (or can be) freer from the demands of money.

****
These are just some possibilities I'm putting on the table.

snusmumriken

And I am tremendously grateful for your words. You are one of very few people who seem to make sense of things.

Despite all the sense, their are a couple of points where I feel that the sense does not apply to me. Notably:

I do not need a trip like this. I have almost exclusively been very happy and content for the past two years of my life. Sure thing, I have a strangely impulsive and adventurous nature fostering ideas and desires whose fulfilment is incredibly satisfactory. Going to Asia by bike is one of them, and I'm pretty certain it would've felt great, regardless of how I (technically) enjoy the physical activity of touring. The thing is, I don't need this satisfaction... I'm not even sure pursuing it is the right thing to do. I believe I could, through concentration and meditation, stay in home town till the very end of my days and still feel absolutely happy and at peace with myself. It seems hard, but I can do anything at that is one of those things. Happiness lies within, and I believe I've found it there.

Blablabla.

Quite honestly, I don't see much meaning in biking to China.

Seriously.

I cannot argue far it beyond this: I am trying to live in the moment; trying not to think too much about the future and not too much about the past. In this very moment, I happen to have a strangely strong desire to go to China on two wheels, so I will do it. From my experience, realising this desire will make me feel very satisfied, in a way that is hard to describe, because I don't really (intellectually) see the point in doing it.

What makes sense to me on an intellectual level is doing things which I believe somehow "improves" the world. I would like to "do good". I find it a little hard fitting the activity of touring to China into that category. Of course I can combine certain things with my travels which I believe will also do good, but I think what I can do is very limited... more than at home in Norway. (Or, by all means, maybe I will have some very good idea underways.)

And I don't feel guilty. I would never feel guilty for following these desires (on the contrary, as already stated, I would feel perfectly happy and satisfied). I'm just thinking... maybe I should do something else, because I would probably be happy regardless of me biking there or not, and at the same time, perhaps I could help someone else, human or animal (or the whole ****ing ecosphere), feel happy or at peace.

I guess this is the well-known war between one's emotions and one's intellect, only in my case, it's not a war; they seem to get along well, while not getting too mixed up in each other's lives. And I like it that way. It's... fun, and interesting. It works.

Apart from that, Niles, I agree with you everywhere. Actually, my father has never really told me the money should not be used for this or for that. His main request is that I, being 18 years old and "grown up", should become economically independent of him. I respect this. I know that if I embark on my trip to Asia, I may very well run out of money while still there, and my dad must thus feel emotionally obliged to pay for me to help me out. I would not be free, and he would not be free.

I guess it all boils down to a fragmented concept of freedom. To realise some freedoms, you need to take others away. Having made up my mind on a quite a few philosophical and ideological issues, I have a preference of some freedoms, or combinations of some freedoms, over others. In this issue of money given to me by my father and their use, it's not that simple, but I will still, I think, choose to earn some money myself for purely practical reasons.

And I know I will be happy, nevertheless.

Thank you, once again.

Tom Stormcrowe

Sounds to me like you're looking for what used to be called "Yondering". In the tradition of Louis L'Amour, what you are wanting to do is wander rootless for a bit and just experience life? If so, it can be a great experience, or a horrible one, or both mixed If you do this, enjoy the experience and make it your own. I'll not offer advice not to do it, since if you are truly determined to do it, the advice will fall on deaf ears .

StephenH

My take on it- time to get a job and get a life. Touring the world on a bike is great, if you've got your own finances. But it sounds like you're basically bumming off your dad's resources for your entertainment (which is what the trip is, a long vacation) and that's just not a good way to go through life.

You mention being tired of bureaucracy. I haven't been there to see, but understand Asia has it's fair share of bureaucracy, too.

Note that I'm Dad-aged, if that shows you where I'm coming from.

Old Hammer Boy

A lesson for all fathers. Don't give your kids money, it only confuses them!

deadly downtube

just save up some money, buy only reliable and necessary gear, and hurry up and start your trip... too much planning can drive a person insane! once your wheels hit the road and you start learning to handle your heavy beast, your worries will melt away... living as a bike nomad or bike bum is a great plan imo, bring some friends along and it'll be an even better time...

Nigeyy

You know reading all the responses about how you shouldn't accept money from your father, I just want to add another perspective from a person who has not received financial help from their parents (was infinitely fortunate and rich in terms of I did receive plenty of other much, much, much more important help and support, though):

Take the money. Yep, I might sound like I'm materialistic (which I am, but honestly, who isn't anyway when it comes down to it?). Lord, I would have snapped up that money at your age, quite happily no doubt. Perhaps that's a shallow thing to say, but as someone who had/has to work, quite simply put, money is freedom (though I do accept there might be a price to pay in terms of living up to the expectations of your father, but it sounds to me like that would still happen regardless, so you might as well......).

I envy your position, and hope you set off on your adventure, but don't be too proud to accept financial help! Good luck and have a great time.

nancy sv

It's been interesting reading through this thread... In so many ways, you are exactly as I was when I was your age. I had decided that I wanted to become a Peace Corps Volunteer so I could go live in foreign countries - and that required a college degree. In retrospect I am sooooo thankful that I made the decision to do something that required the degree because that piece of paper has opened more doors in my life than I can even begin to count.

That being said - I LOVE hearing the urgency in your voice and the passion you have about it all. You are absolutely right about being able to travel with not a lot of money - I did it a lot when I was younger and am still doing it (not to the extent I used to, but I suppose that has a lot to do with the fact that I now travel with a husband and kids).

I am happy to hear that you are going to try to find work and do it all on your own - I think you will be happy to have made that decision in the end. It really shouldn't take you long to save enough to head out.

Have a great trip and LEARN LOTS!!!! That's what life is all about anyway.