2manybikes

I was just about to say something similar, good post.

In other words.......it takes a cetain amount of energy to heat up a something enough to be usefull for bike camping. If you try to store that in a battery, it will be too big, and too heavy to even consider taking it on a bike....add in a microwave oven and it gets worse. It's a terrible idea.

The small stoves that burn fuel are already on the market.
The fuel stores about 69 times as much as a good battery by weight.
47.2 MJ/kg. divided by 0.684 MJ/kg. is 69.005

Speedo

If I was going to bring a battery powered gadget on the bike, it would be used to make Margaritas!

Speedo

relyt

The startup wattage of a microwave can be up to 3 times the wattage that it is rated to run at. A 600w microwave might take up to 1800w for the first few seconds.

I used to sell appliances at a hardware store, and I have seen people buy microwaves for camping, and they would not run on a portable consumer generator because the startup wattage was so high.

Niles H.

A lighthearted seven-minute history of the microwave, with some great moments,

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4h1ESUz2H3E

******
Yeah, that energy density issue is a good one.

I submit, however, that batteries are better.

Here's why:

You can recharge them.

You can recharge them at rest stops, restrooms, libraries, motels, campgrounds, various and sundry motor vehicles (yes, there are fast-chargers that have the option of charging from a DC power source), and many other sources.

If you have ever used a rechargeable power tool, and put it through its paces, you might have noticed how much torque, work, time and power is in a quite-reasonably-sized-and-weighted rechargeable battery. It can do a lot of work.

If you have ever watched kids who are really involved with and seriously into high-end RC racing competitions (gliders, cars, planes), it is amazing how much power they get out of one charge and a moderately sized battery pack. It is also amazing how fast they can recharge them (with the higher quality packs and fast chargers, and using motor vehicles), and how many cycles they can get out of them.

*****
Even without the batteries, though, the ovens would be very useful.

A previous post mentioned two minutes. What about twelve seconds? (Compared with who knows how long, for more primitive cooking systems.)

Niles H.

An ultralight, ultraflexible chainmail Faraday cage could be used.

Or, once the beam pattern is understood, one could just stay out of its way (and skip the cage).

As far as I know, the antenna on the magnetron directs the beam forward only. If you were a bit behind it, no problem.

You might want to have a safety checklist, like a pilot:

---no pacemakers: ✔

---no chihuahuas: ✔

---no flammable talking dolls: ✔

---no delicate electronics: ✔

---no librarians looking over shoulder: ✔

---no birds flying in vicinity: ✔

...and so on [I'm sure someone out there could add to the list]

Pilots do this sort of thing all the time.

*****
The main reason microwaves aren't seen like this (with free-standing magnetrons) is that they are made to be relatively foolproof. With some reasonable level of care and attention and understanding, though, they are much, much less dangerous than, say, private aircraft.

Or cars.

*****
One setup is to have the magnetron and the other basic electronic componentry all together on a little platform -- like those sheets they sell at Fry's for mounting computer and other circuitry.

The platform could be made to look 'normal' by covering it -- with a little nylon camera case, or something similar.

In a safe location, one could set it down next to one of those standard, nestable lightweight microwaveable containers.

(Take-along batteries are optional. Vehicle batteries, electrical outlets, and other sources are widely available....)

Have the magnetron mounted in such a way that the beam is directed horizontally and at the right height and angle to hit a typical microwaveable container that is simply placed right next to it, on the same surface and at the same level as the circuit board, right in front of the beam.

Hit the switch.

[Just for fun, it could be a keychain-operated switch.]

...ZZZZZZZZT!

[What lovely sounds they make.]

---And quick, clean, instant meals....

d_D

It's worse than that. Not only does the fuel weigh a lot less to start with it gets lighter as burnt fuel is released into the atmosphere.
An empty fuel bottle doesn't weight that much, a flat battery on the other hand.

Brains

Might I suggest the 4 oven AGA as a solution ? This classic European stove will cook amazing food. OK so the weight and cubic capacity, especially once you have factored in the fuel may be a bit heavier than the microwave, but think of the quality!

https://www.aga-rayburn.co.uk/121.htm

2manybikes

Good points. I finally realized he's trolling. It does not matter.

Speedo

You've just surrendered on the premise of the thread. If you have a big vehicle to lug the thing, and electrical outlets to power it, then "Light, Rechargeable, Compact - Microwave Ovens for Touring" aren't necessary. Just go to K-Mart and buy one off the shelf and install it in your RV.

Speedo

spinnaker

He's not joking. He is either smoking something or is in some alternate reality. We are realy not sure.

Just check out some of his other posts to see what I mean.

spinnaker

Yep alternate reality.

Niles H.

Assuming for the moment that this figure is correct or close, it is not unreasonable to take into account the fact that the batteries are rechargeable.

If you can get 1000 recharges, then instead of 1:69, it becomes 100:6.9.

If you take into account the cooking time, which is often about 10:1, it then becomes 1000:6.9.

Niles H.

The option of using a very lightweight and compact unit (basically just a freestanding magnetron with supporting electronics, without the cumbersome casing, embellishments, and "oven") is only one of the options.

It is an option that could work well on many tours.

*******
Microwaves are impressively quick. There is something fascinating about them as well.

They are an elegant solution, in some situations.

*******
However, even though they are much quicker than the conventional styles of cooking, they are not as quick and elegant as advanced approaches to eating without cooking at all. Refining those approaches to meal preparation is another attractive option.

Both approaches (or all of them, for that matter) can be explored more fully.

Personal preferences play into it. Some prefer one way over all others; some prefer two, some three....

*******
Another option would be to go with the cooking-free approach (and to do it well -- it can be developed a lot further than most people take it) for much of the time, and to take along a lightweight microwaveable container (or several nesting ones) to use with microwaves as they become available....

These containers can double as cereal bowls, serving savers, gorp containers, etc.

East Hill

I still wouldn't use a microwave in a wilderness area.

East Hill

2manybikes

I think this is the way to go.


[From The Institute of Electrical Engineers, Students Quarterly Journal 25]

For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring
prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not
only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but
would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such
a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved
is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of
conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto-
reluctance and capacitive directance.

The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a
malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were
in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six
hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side
fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus-
o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh
conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential
girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter.

Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the
rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent
reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities
given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature
phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient.
Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the
present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope.

Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a
regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved
to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that
the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be
tankered.

The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed
largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in
the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to
the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented
by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured.

The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by
constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on
the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase
detractors have remissed.

Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical
development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In
addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in
conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal
depleneration.

Niles H.

Harnessing body heat for cooking is another promising avenue.

***
One approach (there are some others) is to utilize heat differentials to achieve higher temperatures.

Niles H.

Another is to utilize the digestive abilities of microbes.

Many of them thrive at or near body temperatures.

Soybeans can be rendered much more digestible by using the organisms that turn it into tempeh. Cooking times are drastically reduced.

Some foods can be microbially 'cooked' and then eaten without further cooking.

Niles H.

Some microbes can generate heat.

This might be usable for cooking.

***
They can also be used to produce flammable materials, including ethanol.

This could help solve fuel availability problems, in some situations.

***
A pinch of genetically engineered microbes might be the lightest stove option of all.

Cave

OK Niles here are some other ideas to look at:
- Boiling water from friendly RVers or fast food shops, use thermos flask to slow-cook
- Solar oven on top of the rear rack
- Solar and hub generator trickle-charging of batteries; use these on some sort of thermal heat exchanger to increase efficiency rather than directly using the electricity to produce microwaves. Maybe the heat exchanger could be linked to a cooling vest so you stay cool while dinner gets hot.
- Tour in Australia or Claifornia or Greece in summer and cook on the bushfires
- Arai drum brake (used on rear wheel of some tandems to slow them on long descents), dissipate heat into cooking instead of into the air (could do the same with disc brakes I guess)
- Sit on a steak, combining slow heat cooking with bacterial proteolysis (like truckies putting a foil-wrapped steak on the engine block!)
- Replace brake pads with beef jerky
- Enzymatic or chemical cooking of foods eg. fish in lime juice
- Tow a large solar array on a modified BOB trailer. Add a wind turbine for the downhills.

Cave

The slow-cooking works OK for pre-cooking lentils and rice.

Solar heating of water eg. in a black container, or an insulated clear container (eg. bubble wrap) with a black base, would decrease heating time and fuel use.

Cave

Have a look at some wind power generation sites for ideas on generators - there's a site from NZ that describes building a wind generator using found parts, apparently Fisher and Paykel washer/dryer motors are the best salvaged motors to make into a generator.

It was once common to use a bike attached to a generator to power portable radios and emergency telegraph stations in the Australian bush.

Niles H.

Thanks -- some good ideas there.

***
Yeah, enzymes.

I've heard that they are a hot topic for researchers who are looking for better ways to convert a wider variety of plant materials into ethanol.

***
There must be a lot of information out there (somewhere...) about using enzymes.

Surprised they aren't utilized more often.

(Steaks and papain, though....)

Niles H.

The Xtracycle people used to use their bikes to power blenders for smoothies.

There must be ways of harnessing bikes and human power (or gravity and mass, on long descents) for cooking??

Cave

Yeah, regenerative braking - use a generator dialled up high enough to slow the bike. Maybe salvage one form a Toyota Prius.

Cave

The bicycle blender thing is a direct mechanical link. There's a guy in Melbourne who goes on critical mass rides with his blender bike. It looks like a heap of junk but the smoothies are good.