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2 cyclist killed on highway

Old 06-30-08, 05:55 AM
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2 cyclist killed on highway

Very sad story. 2 cyclist doing a fundraising tour across Canada were killed on Sunday, 2 others were injured. I hate to read stuff like this, my thoughts go out to the families.

https://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...-cyclists.html
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Old 06-30-08, 06:12 AM
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So bad news.
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Old 06-30-08, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by oneredstar
Very sad story. 2 cyclist doing a fundraising tour across Canada were killed on Sunday, 2 others were injured. I hate to read stuff like this, my thoughts go out to the families.

https://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...-cyclists.html
Almost as saddening as the death of these two riders are some of the comments the article is drawing. The usual nonsense that bikes are unsafe but speeding in two tons of metal is OK.
 
Old 06-30-08, 07:40 AM
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Paved shoulders on the Trans Canada

This is really unnerving, I live in Manitoba, our roads really are a horrible affair, and theres talk of upping the speed limit. this would apply to crumbling 2 lane roads with no shoulder
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Old 06-30-08, 07:59 AM
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I am sad and angry.

More info w/pics -
https://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=WinnipegHome

Anyone have any info about the road outside Virden?
4 lanes? Shoulders?

Tour Website:
https://www.jdrf.ca/index.cfm?fuseact...0C85CC1DC1EADF

Last edited by jamawani; 06-30-08 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 06-30-08, 08:22 AM
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This is very, very sad.

I'd love to cycle across Canada, but I can't wrap my head around the thought of riding along the TCH, especially after news like this.
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Old 06-30-08, 10:42 AM
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Very sad story indeed.
But I don't see a mirror on the pictures....
(I would never cycle without a mirror, you need to know what the traffic is doing behind you at all times, it saved my life several times.....)

Last edited by Ericx25; 06-30-08 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 06-30-08, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisch
I'd love to cycle across Canada, but I can't wrap my head around the thought of riding along the TCH, especially after news like this.
There are alternatives to the TCH in much of the country, including the area where the accident occurred.
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Old 06-30-08, 11:37 AM
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Yes, there are alternatives - but in some places there are not.

For example, you have to ride the TransCan in western Ontario. There is no other paved option west of Kenora. Hell, there's no unpaved option that I know of. I've biked thousands of kms in Canada and have, generally, tried to avoid the TransCan. But there have been times where I've had to do a short stretch. For example, in Yoho NP the TransCan is the only thing there is. In Banff NP you have to get on it from Canmore to Banff - unless you're willing to do dirt tracks and there are short stretches between Banff and the Bow River Parkway and Lake Louise and the Icefields Parkway. I also has to get on the TransCan in Saskatchewan near Swoft Current to get from one provincial highway to another.

The larger point is that cyclists should have safe access to highways provided they obey the rules of the road. Does it mean that cars have to slow down sometimes? To take 3 precious seconds?? If drivers are drinking, talking on their cell phones, or speeding - they are putting cyclists and pedestrians at risk where they are - whether it is the TransCan or a back road.
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Old 06-30-08, 01:51 PM
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That's just awful. I'm guessing this was a cellphone or distracted driver related accident.

The transcan is a scary road. I biked on it for several hundred miles between Perry Sound and Sault Ste Marie. There were massive trucks going by carrying giant pieces of pipe and segments of giant windmills. Many of these trucks took up much more than a lane of traffic. The drivers were generally respectful, but the lack of shoulder on much of the transcan makes it a dicey road. That being said, I've biked on a lot of worse roads in the states. I would love to go from coast to coast in Canada on the transcan, and I wouldn't be daunted by the road conditions.
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Old 06-07-09, 09:25 PM
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Cyclist death charges laid
By SUN MEDIA

Last Updated: 2nd June 2009, 4:16am


Charges have been laid in a crash that killed two cyclists and injured two others who were cycling across Canada to raise money for diabetes research last summer.

Ian Edmond Gibbons, 28, of Brandon is charged with two counts of dangerous driving causing death and two counts of dangerous driving causing bodily harm. He is scheduled to appear in court next month.

Robert Joseph Carrier, 45, of Kelowna, B.C., and Daniel Hurtubise, 50, of St. Bruno-de-Montarville, Que., died in the June 29, 2008, collision. Hurtubise's 20-year-old son Alexandre and 17-year-old daughter Sonia were injured.

The cyclists were pedalling east on Highway 1, about five km east of Virden, when a Honda Civic heading in the same direction plowed into them.

Staff Sgt. Moe Massart of the Virden RCMP detachment said police finished their investigation last August and passed the file on to the Crown.

SHOULDER NOT PAVED

Massart said it's not known why the driver didn't avoid the cyclists, who were in the right-hand lane because the shoulder on that stretch is not paved.

The crash happened on a clear, sunny morning, Massart said.

A safety vehicle, which had been following the group, had gone ahead prior to the crash and was not behind the cyclists at the time.

The group was participating in the Ride of a Lifetime fund-raiser and attempting to collect $500,000 for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation (JDRF).

Hurtubise was 15 when he was diagnosed with Type 1 juvenile diabetes.

His family has continued to raise money since his death to reach his fundraising goal. A recent blog entry indicates the family has reached the halfway mark.
 
Old 06-07-09, 09:39 PM
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It is really sad that happened ...... but I'm baffled why the cyclists were on that stretch of road in the first place. They could have been riding Hwy 2 just as easily and so much more safely. Hwy 2 runs parallel to Hwy 1 and is a decent road without much traffic.

I've outlined a posssible route from BC to the Ontario border here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/546765-trans-canada-trail-cycling.html


As for the incident, I wonder if the driver was the second vehicle. In other words, was he driving behind another vehicle, like a semi or something? I've seen it happen many times ....... the first vehicle pulls out a bit because it can see the cyclists, but the second vehicle can't see anything but the back of the first vehicle and doesn't know why the first vehicle pulled out a bit ... and so the second vehicle doesn't pull out at all.

Last edited by Machka; 06-07-09 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 06-07-09, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericx25
Very sad story indeed.
But I don't see a mirror on the pictures....
(I would never cycle without a mirror, you need to know what the traffic is doing behind you at all times, it saved my life several times.....)
Your choice to disclose your mirror as your secret for self-preservation at a time when lives are lost and children are left w/o a father was a bit lacking in good judgment, don't you think?
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Old 06-07-09, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdork
Your choice to disclose your mirror as your secret for self-preservation at a time when lives are lost and children are left w/o a father was a bit lacking in good judgment, don't you think?
i don't think it was. maybe you're just overly sensitive about trivial things?
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Old 06-08-09, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka
As for the incident, I wonder if the driver was the second vehicle. In other words, was he driving behind another vehicle, like a semi or something? I've seen it happen many times ....... the first vehicle pulls out a bit because it can see the cyclists, but the second vehicle can't see anything but the back of the first vehicle and doesn't know why the first vehicle pulled out a bit ... and so the second vehicle doesn't pull out at all.
I believe it was a single car by itself, on a dry, sunny morning, on a long, flat stretch of road. Basically no visibility issues. And 4 bicyclists riding unloaded.

If the guy's being charged then there must be more to the story - like the driver was talking/texting etc - or one of the victim's family has some influence. Maybe a bigshot in the RCMP just needs to look good right now - is an election coming up where RCMP is affected?

If you look at pics in this link, you can see there's good weather at the accident site:

https://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=WinnipegHome
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
600_virden_fatal2_080630.jpg (78.2 KB, 69 views)
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Old 06-08-09, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
Maybe a bigshot in the RCMP just needs to look good right now - is an election coming up where RCMP is affected?
We don't elect RCMP.

But I agree that there had to be more to it than that. That stretch of road is BAD. Two other cyclists and I were pulled over by the RCMP along there, and told to ride on the other side of the road, facing traffic, because there was a wide shoulder over there, just a bit west of where that was. He told us he knew it was illegal for us to do that, but it might be in our best interests, and he gave us his badge number and all that in case we were pulled over for illegally riding facing traffic.

While we were riding on the side with no shoulder, however, there were semis coming by me so close I could just stick my fingers out and touch their tires. I was terrified.
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Old 06-08-09, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by vegenaise
i don't think it was. maybe you're just overly sensitive about trivial things?
Nah, not overly sensitive. BTW, lame flame.
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Old 06-08-09, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdork
Your choice to disclose your mirror as your secret for self-preservation at a time when lives are lost and children are left w/o a father was a bit lacking in good judgment, don't you think?
That 'time' was about a year ago... I think an appropriate time of mourning has now past and people can discuss the issue without sensitivity police intervention, don't you, officer?
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Old 06-08-09, 09:52 AM
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Terrible.
I used to ride with a fellow that was certain he would be killed by a vehicle.
He went on to tour Canada, Europe, the U.S and Hawaii.
And never had an incident in 20 years of riding.
I know of two local incidents that make me wonder if today is my day as I ride the Trans Canada into the city during my commute.
Check out this thread I started.
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/546473-your-makeup-worth-my-life.html
The first couple of responses blame me for being a drama queen.......
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Old 11-05-10, 12:20 AM
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Penalty for killing 2 people plus injuring 2 others: 3 year license suspension and $5,000 fine.

This is only a little worse than a first-time DUI conviction in North Carolina, where you get a 1 year suspension, plus mandatory jail time of 1 day to 24 months, plus $2000 fine, plus court cost, and another $X,000 for insurance premium hikes afterwards.

https://www.am1150.ca/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1298836

No jail time for man accused in deaths of charity cyclists

10/21/2010

The 29 year old Brandon man charged in connection with the death of a Kelowna cyclist in Manitoba has had his charges stayed as part of a deal with the Crown.

In June of 2008, Robert Carrier of Kelowna was riding with a group of cyclists on a charity ride on the TransCanada Highway when they were hit. Carrier and Daniel Hurtubise of Quebec were killed and Hurtubise' two children were injured. They were with a group called "Ride of a Lifetime" and they were raising money for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

The two charges of dangerous driving causing death and the two charges of dangerous driving causing bodily harm have been stayed, Ian Gibbons has pleaded guilty to careless driving. Manitoba Crown Prosecutor Rich Lonstrup says it was discovered in the pre-trial that they couldn't prove Gibbons had been inattentive long enough to warrant the dangerous driving charges. Lonstrup says Gibbons loses his driver's licence for three years and has been fined $5,000.

"This route was only done after we had a chance to consult with the surviving victims in this case as well as the two surviving children." He says they understood the situation and calls them brave and morally courageous. Lonstrup says the surviving victims' and the spouses' felt that, "This was a young man who was absolutely devastated by what had happened and that nothing further needed to be done to him to get the message about the wrongness of his actions." He says the families appreciated that sending Gibbons to jail wouldn't make their lives any better.

Howard Alexander - Kelowna
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Old 11-05-10, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
Penalty for killing 2 people plus injuring 2 others: 3 year license suspension and $5,000 fine.

This is only a little worse than a first-time DUI conviction in North Carolina, where you get a 1 year suspension, plus mandatory jail time of 1 day to 24 months, plus $2000 fine, plus court cost, and another $X,000 for insurance premium hikes afterwards.

https://www.am1150.ca/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1298836

No jail time for man accused in deaths of charity cyclists

10/21/2010

The 29 year old Brandon man charged in connection with the death of a Kelowna cyclist in Manitoba has had his charges stayed as part of a deal with the Crown.

In June of 2008, Robert Carrier of Kelowna was riding with a group of cyclists on a charity ride on the TransCanada Highway when they were hit. Carrier and Daniel Hurtubise of Quebec were killed and Hurtubise' two children were injured. They were with a group called "Ride of a Lifetime" and they were raising money for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

The two charges of dangerous driving causing death and the two charges of dangerous driving causing bodily harm have been stayed, Ian Gibbons has pleaded guilty to careless driving. Manitoba Crown Prosecutor Rich Lonstrup says it was discovered in the pre-trial that they couldn't prove Gibbons had been inattentive long enough to warrant the dangerous driving charges. Lonstrup says Gibbons loses his driver's licence for three years and has been fined $5,000.

"This route was only done after we had a chance to consult with the surviving victims in this case as well as the two surviving children." He says they understood the situation and calls them brave and morally courageous. Lonstrup says the surviving victims' and the spouses' felt that, "This was a young man who was absolutely devastated by what had happened and that nothing further needed to be done to him to get the message about the wrongness of his actions." He says the families appreciated that sending Gibbons to jail wouldn't make their lives any better.

Howard Alexander - Kelowna
The court could not prove that he was inattentive? Really? I mean, he did run over four cyclist on a flat road in broad day light right? Then I guess he did it on purpose and not due to inattention?
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Old 11-05-10, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zeppinger
The court could not prove that he was inattentive? Really? I mean, he did run over four cyclist on a flat road in broad day light right? Then I guess he did it on purpose and not due to inattention?
You must not be familiar with the road in question. I've cycled that road and it is truly frightening. It is a very busy, dual carriageway highway with lots of heavy truck traffic, recreational vehicle traffic, etc. etc. ... and there is no shoulder. You are right there among the wheels of all these vehicles. When I was on it, I had huge semi truck tires rolling past me with inches between them and me.

I can see how they might not have been able to prove the driver was inattentive ... if he was tailgating a semi, for example, and the semi pulled out a few inches to avoid running over the cyclist, he might not have realised why the semi was moving over ever-so-slightly until it was too late. It could have been because he was on his cell phone or whatever ... but because there are other possibilities (like the semi one I just mentioned) they probably couldn't prove anything one way or another.

That situation was awful, and I'm not excusing the driver ... but at the same time it was (and is) a terrible choice of route, one which is quite easily avoided.

Last edited by Machka; 11-05-10 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 11-05-10, 04:34 AM
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I think there needs to be a very careful read of the whole article, and in particular the comments by the survivors and the victims' families.

Victim impact statements can be a very good clue as to why a certain course has been followed in sentencing. The fact the prosecution could not prove inattentiveness also should be appreciated by the laypeople -- that's what a court of law is about... proving culpability, and if that cannot be proven, no amount of wishful thinking by commentators such as cycling advocates can for the prosecution to continue pursuing that case.

It also continues to fascinate me how cycling advocates and commentators know the facts of a case without being on the (a) investigating team or (b) being part of the judicial process or (c) being involved in the accident or (d) being an eye witness.
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Old 11-05-10, 02:35 PM
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Well first off, it's Canada. People up here apologize when someone else bumps into them, so you can imagine the guilt...

I agree with Rowan for the most part, except the idea that the perp is highly contrite, and they couldn't prove anything is odd. Wasn't he cooperating, and if so why did they need to prove anything. Why is he devastated? If I killed 2 people in a situation where I was zero at fault, I might feel bad, but why should I? "nothing more needed to be done to demonstrate the wrongness of his actions". Right in the victims impact stuff. There seems to be a pretty strong inference of guilt there. OK, one can parse and read too much into what are limited statements from parties with differing points of view, but it is all a little odd.
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Old 11-05-10, 05:41 PM
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The simple fact is that under the judicial system that exists in most civilised countries, the "perpetrator" has the right to innocence until proven guilty. It is entirely up to the prosecution to build a case with the aim of proving that guilt. It is up to the accused to maintain and argue their innocence within the law. The final decision is made by an arbiter -- a magistrate/judge or a jury -- who normallly represents the views of the people.

The onus on the prosecution includes gathering scientific evidence (the real CSI) as well as witness statements. It might be different in North America, but here in Australia, crash investigation is taken very, very seriously and the outcomes are used as testimony on court. But even then, the ultimate outcome will always rest on the intentions of the accused.

The level of culpability or responsibility varies enormously -- there are some, including insurance companies, I think, who believe that just by being at the location of an accident in which one is involved implies a degree of responsbility. Gee, just living implies a degree of responsibility. In this case, just cycling on the highway implies this.

In this case, the prosecution has indicated that under the laws that exist in that part of the world, they were unable to build a case that would succeed in court on the most serious charges. The accused has accepted some responsibility, hence the plea deal and sentencing.

There are checks and balances in the legal system, including impact statements from victims and survivors. From the outside, the layman may see those checks and balances as unjustified, but they exist for a reason. Otherwise, we would be living under the extremely dark shadows of summary justice.

This last point manifests itself when more and more prison inmates are being freed because they have been wrongly jailed on false or misleading evidence or manipulation of the justice system.

Of course, none of this diminishes the tragedy of the crash. But sometimes, cycling advocates et al need to look at the realities of life. And if they aren't satisfied, they should seek solutions through their lawmakers -- who, after all, are there for that very reason.
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