AdamDZ

I still haven't completely ruled out a trailer.

I ordered more touring specific panniers (Axiom Champlain and Lasalle), light sleeping bag and and air sleeping pad and already trimmed some weight. And I hope to do another two-day ride the following weekend. That'll leave me two more weekends to try a trailer if I have too. But I agree that it would be much better to fit everything in the panniers. However, I don't want to find myself in a situation that I wish I brought something that I haven't.

And yes, I didn't like the top-heavy feeling of the loaded bike. I imagine a trailer would make it more stable. I guess it's one of those things that one has to try to make a final decision.

On the other hand, a trailer would come handy to run errands as I'm trying to live as car-light as possible. Ideally, I'd build a Big Dummy, but that may have to wait. I may just pick up a $50 kid trailer for the heck of it and alter it a bit.

kayakdiver

Trim the fat as much as possible.. if going on a longer tour you will soon find out what is overkill.. This stuff goes in a box and gets shipped home. If you want all the comforts of home..... don't go touring

lucille

If you get a trailer, I can see you touring with it AND the panniers....

If you're going on a two day trip, trim as much as you can, and see how you do without. I'm sure you can. Less luggage will be so much easier on your back and knees too, why stress them so much?

I take a lot of photos and like to stop on the side of the road to take them. It is so much easier to manage a lighter bike, when you're getting off and on multiple times. I remember that by the end of the day I couldn't be bothered with photos, because I just didn't want to get off the bike again.

noglider 

And another way to pack light is to tell yourself that if you find yourself lacking something, you can buy it on your trip, even if you already own one like it. Better to buy it on the trip than to bring it unnecessarily, when every ounce counts.

By the way, the longest tour I took was three months, and I did it on a racing bike with tubular tires. I mention that because someone asked if it's possible or desirable. It's possible, but I don't necessarily recommend it. Handling took extra effort and didn't really give me a benefit to having a short wheelbase. I had to modify my pedal stroke because of heelscrape with the panniers. And tubulars were hell. I got a flat every day for a month until I bought heavier tires.

Doug64

FWIW-- My biased opinion. I use a trailer to haul groceries once a week, and that is the only time I'd ever use it. There is probably 40-50 lbs of groceries in it, and it is not easier to handle as the bike with loaded panniers. It might be my imagination, plus the fact that I pull it with my mountain bike; but it seems significantly harder pulling hills with it. We have one steep, but short hill on the way back from the store.

Also on some trips where they would not let us ride through construction zones, we had to put our bikes in the back of the pilot trucks and get ferried through. Try that with an extra heavy load and a trailer. The same goes when putting the bikes on buses ferries or trains. We carry a large ultra light weight duffle that will hold every thing in our panniers. Then if the bikes need to be boxed, the empty panniers can go in with the bikes as additional padding. Also a two wheeled trailer does not allow you to ride as close to the side of the road shoulder. This may or may not be an issue.
Everything from both the front and rear panniers fit in the large yellow duffle bag. That only leaves the duffle, handlebar bag and rack pack to carry on the bus, train etc,

Makes travelling with bikes really manageable. Waiting at the Seattle train station for a bus to Vancouver, BC.


Having said all this, there is no right or wrong way. Everyone has to figure out what works for them and it is an evolutionary process. My advice: Take all advice with a big grain of salt!

AdamDZ

I got my new sleeping pad and sleeping bag today. All I can say is "wow!" They pack into size so tiny that both can fit in a handlebar bag. Amazing!

I cut some more weight with little things like getting ultra light utensils, tiny can-opener, replacing the thick rope I used as a clothesline with a thin, light rope like the ones use as guy lines.

So yeah, a trailer would be the last resort and it looks like I'm on the right track with weight cutting.

lucille

Great! It's amazing how tiny some of those things can pack, eh?

What about your towel? If you're using a regular terry towel, I suggest this: https://www.rei.com/search?query=towe...x=0&button.y=0

AdamDZ

I got one of those microfiber towels someone recommended in another thread. It's compact and works very well.

Dan The Man

The lightest and cheapest gear you can carry is no gear at all. You will be amazed what you can do without in North America. You are never really in much trouble on a highway with a credit card and a cell phone.

My first tour was in Northern BC. Lots of bears. I threw my food into the bearproof garbage cans (beside the garbage part not in it) at the rest stops and slept a little ways away in the bush.

AdamDZ

I don't want to waste time and money to improvise on the road. I want to have enough stuff with me so I can enjoy the ride and not worry about logistics.

Dan The Man

funny, I always think about it the other way around. I want to have little enough stuff that I can enjoy the ride and not worry about logistics. To me more stuff equals more worry, but I won't argue that you can't having fun riding however you please.

AdamDZ

Everybody's different. It's my first time and I don't want to start with anything too extreme: neither too much or too little stuff. I don't want to find myself in a situation where I have nowhere to hide my food so I'm taking the bear container with me. I don't want to count on having a bear proof container at every rest stop. I can't count on being able to buy whatever I need on the road either while I'm 20 miles between towns or at 8am on Sunday, and I don't want to spend time looking for stores, etc. I want to have enough with me so I can go through several days without requiring any third party help.

positron

Adam, congrats.

I know you feel like you need all the crap you took, but you do not. Trust me, everyone here is absolutely right when they say minimize the weight.

Panniers handle much better than trailers. make sure to balance the weight, and play around with mounting the bags more fore or aft to alter the feeling. I can ride my touring bike fully loaded no handed at low speeds, or high speed downhills. Im not saying that to brag, merely to point out that after tweaking the loading, four panniers on a bike (especially a stout one like yours, nice ) should handle very well, and be very stable. Sorta slow, but good, like a huge softride-equipped caddy.

those gas canisters (250g?) should last more than a week of two-three times a day (coffee in the morning, second breakfast, and dinner) use. They are surprisingly long lasting. try one in your apt for a week, and use it up. Write down the time you use it, and youll have a feeling for the longevity. If you have a postal scale, you can weigh it full and empty to get a feel for the amount of gas remaining/being used...this can help you plan. Later, on a longer trip, you can plan to pick up a package or two with refills along the way via general delivery at the post office.

clothes: 2 sets is plenty. Buy wool and you wont stink. splurge on extra pairs of socks and undies, to keep the funk bits clean. Bring a set of good quality long underwear for cold nights. Wear the same outer trousers every day and only change your under layer. Yes, the outers will get dirty - no it wont matter a bit, your skin-layer will be fresh.

tools: you have too many. the thing is, I'm all for having anything necessary to fix a bike, sure, but some of the stuff you have you will NEVER use on the road (cable cutters? four cone wrenches?), other bits are redundant...


Trim the crap you dont need. lightweight does not mean uncomfortable, it means efficient, FUN and safe.

AdamDZ

The canisters are 100g, so I think 3 for two weeks is about right. Yeah, no wrenches, no cables and cable cutters Just few basic multitools, levers, tubes, patch kits and a pump.

I am really taking all the advice to heart Except for some extreme stuff, like "make your own fire, no need for a stove", I'm not there yet, I need some basic comforts. With the JebBoil I can have hot water in under 3 minutes and not worry about collecting wood. My next weekend ride will incorporate all the input from you folks and I'll let you know how it goes. I'll probably take the same route so I won't create another journal, just add an update.

I do have wool long and short sleeved shirts but they soaked with sweat so much last time that they have salt spots form all over and that felt a little nasty, didn't smell, but it wasn't pleasant. They seem to be good for short commute rides but for all-day use I think I'll go with regular synthetic shirts, I'll wash them when I shower. I don't care if I stink a bit

Dan The Man

Stove vs no stove is not a question of bringing a stove vs building a fire. It is a question of bringing a stove vs no fire at all. The advantages are no stove, no fuel, no pots, no cooking, no cleaning. The disadvantages are no hot food that didn't come from a restaurant or gas station microwave. It's actually a major discussion point for North American touring (where you can get fresh food every day).

After my stove was stolen on my first trip, I was forced into the no stove camp, and realized that it isn't really bad at all. I actually like sandwiches. Canned tuna fish can be popped open and eaten anywhere. No need to spend time cooking. Just eat at a picnic table somewhere, or grab a Subway sandwich, ride for another half hour, then sleep.

AdamDZ

I need to have my tea first thing in the morning and the several times a day So I need at least the ability to boil water The JetBoil and couple of tanks don't really take that much space.

AdamDZ

So I did another ride this weekend! To the same destination but slightly different route:

I crossed over to Manhattan over the Queensboro Bridge (a.k.a. 59th Street Bridge), then rode along the Southern edge of Central Park (59th Street) then took Central Park West to W110th Street, then Broadway all the way to 177th Street where the entrance to GWB is. It was much faster, 1h30min versus 2h using the Hudson River Bikeway. It may sound strange to some but, being a bike commuter, I feel much more comfortable on streets with traffic than on bikeways with slow cyclists, joggers, skaters, kids and dogs. Also, on the Queens side approach to the Queensboro Bridge is less crowded than the Williamsburg Bridge.

Then I followed route 9W, not exactly the marked NYS Route 9 (why: see my CGOAB page. It was also faster, close to one hour faster actually. I actually rode further up North to Iona Island at the foot of Bear Mountain. A cool little place. Then back to Harriman State Park to Camp.

I'll have journal later with some pictures.

So...

The Thermarest airpad is awesome. It was pretty cold at night, I think it dropped below 40F and I felt no cold from the ground.

The REI sleeping pad wasn't warm enough for this temperature so I had to dress up and it was OK. Perhaps I should have bough a warmer one.

The Axiom panniers are freaking awesome for the price, I like them.

***

When we were discussing the weight, were you folks talking about the weight of your gear only, or gear plus the bike? It occurred to me that perhaps we were not on the same page. Because I just don't know how to drop the weight any further without giving up on some conveniences.

My bike weighted this time even more despite losing some heavy items BUT! I had my SLR with me and took some things that I didn't have before: bug spray, sunblock, bear spray, real bar soap, iPod, etc. So the bike + gear was 95lbs. But the bike itself (with racks) is 37lbs so my gear was actually around 58lbs. Does that make more sense?

Speaking of soap, I tried those foaming towelettes and didn't like them. If I'm at a campsite with access to showers I want a real soap. If I have no access to showers WetOnes and some water work well enough.

I also brought another LED flashlight as backup this time. So altogether the bike was a bit heavier, but I had more stuff and less bulk (visibly it looked less).

I'm afraid it'll be even heavier for the actual Adirondack tour as I'll need to add a charger for the camera batteries, a netbook, some spare parts and more food. I've also ordered a small solar panel. I'll test it, if it works with iPhone and iPod I'll take it along.

The reason I take an iPod and an iPhone is to maximize the battery life. I keep the iPhone turned off most of the time. If I used it for music I wouldn't make it till 5PM.

But like I said, the weight didn't bother me that much. I'm sure it'd be easier with lighter load but it's a compromise I'm ready to deal with. It got even heavier towards the end as I bought extra water and food for camping.

Overall, I'm very happy with these two rides and how it all worked out.

I'm also very happy with the bike. With all this weight I hit some potholes (had few scary moments) and the wheels didn't seem to mind. The Mavic A719 rims with DT Swiss Alpine 3 spokes and Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tires (700x32) are really a potent combination!

I hope the Topeak Supertourist rack will survive this ordeal as well.

I will do a through examination and maintenance of the bike this week.

However, for the Adirondack tour (and perhaps any future weekend rides too) I'm back to to the idea of taking the train out of NYC to save two days riding through suburbs, so I can enjoy the Adirondacks more. Despite finding a better route I don't like riding through the entire freaking Manhattan to GWB, it's such a waste of time and energy and it's plain freaking ugly half the time and steel road plates everywhere. From where I live to Grand Central is one hour by bike, basically my commute route extended by 10 minutes.

I'll pass by the train station sometime to scout things out. Did anyone ride MetroNorth out of Manhattan with a loaded bike? Any problems?

positron

dude, get an RV

just kidding, kinda We obviously have different philosophies about touring, but that's totally cool. I would personally never go above 30 pounds for my gear load -while you had 58 lbs. (panniers, plus all gear in them, plus **** on bike.) But as long as you are having fun, that is all that matters.

One rule I have is one luxury item allowed. To you that may be an SLR- to me it is my shortwave radio. I allow this luxury item, but trim all other luxuries. Like, for example, I would never carry an ipod and iphone and netbook and chargers, as those are all (arguably) luxury items.

anyway, Im offering weight-trimming advice when it wasn't really asked for. I just have a knee-jerk reaction to hearing 60 pounds of gear: dump half that stuff! feel free to disregard

njkayaker

Making fires isn't the way to go.

One alternative to specialty items like the Jetboil is an alcohol stove. The fuel for these is available nearly anywhere.

staehpj1

You might find that the iPhone battery life is better than you think if you turn off the cellular and the wifi except when actually using them. I don't have an iPhone, but I know that you can do that with most smart phones. It might be good enough to allow taking only one of the two.

BTW, I have enjoyed your posts. Your approach is not one I think I would enjoy myself, but it sounds like you are having fun and that is what matters.

Torrilin

You're measuring weight the way I would... and for me, that would be too much weight. I can't safely manhandle a bike that is loaded up much over 85lbs. Since my bike is about 35lbs, that gives me 50lbs of cargo to play around with. I've had my bike loaded up with over 55lbs of stuff. The bike will happily take at least 5-10lbs more, but I am not strong enough to wrangle the bike then. I'd definitely check that you can lift the bike on and off curbs safely.

I am very sure you can take the SLR, have a nice trip, and still have a total bike weight of under 87lbs . It will probably take some adjusting to get there, and I bet by the end of the trip, you'll have found the solution.

Dan The Man

I aimed for 200 lbs total weight of everything as I stepped out the door the first time: (me, bike, water, gear, fuel, sunglasses, shoes, everything). Ended up more like 205 lbs.

AdamDZ

Yeah, I can handle the bike and I'm having fun. I've also lost 10lbs myself over the last few weeks so that counts too The camera was a big deal for me and that's like 7 lbs right there.

truman

I started to do that, but I didn't want to have to tour naked, hopping on one leg.

a1rabbit

How many extra items are you taking for the camera gear to be 7lbs? Lenses, etc.

I'll probably take my older Nikon D80 on some trips but I'll limit it to one lens and a mini tripod. I'd love to take flashes, tripods, extra lenses, etc. I just don't know if I'd want to. And the thought of breaking them hurts.