Touring bikes and going back to POP
04-08-11 | 11:05 AM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 800
Likes: 4
From: Portland, OR
Nice
or D) Dont agree with your comments and opinions. Tourers schlepping a 30lb bike plus 40lbs of stuff up a mountain and/or all day 100km ride are expending a heck of a lot of energy just like a "racer", so while you are convinced there isnt an efficiency gain I cannot change your view, but I will however take any help in my schlepping, especially up hills.
and E) as we don't have to all wear Chairman Mao uniforms, folks will make up their own minds, going from all opinions if they dont have a chance to try some before on their own.
cheers and good riding no matter what your pedals.
and E) as we don't have to all wear Chairman Mao uniforms, folks will make up their own minds, going from all opinions if they dont have a chance to try some before on their own.
cheers and good riding no matter what your pedals.
Option E) was funny, I'll have to hand it to you..
04-08-11 | 11:10 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 800
Likes: 4
From: Portland, OR
oops forgot to add this one thing that I find to be an advantage to clipless---diff muscle use.
I find that by varying my pedal stroke, I can give diff muscle groups a little break, and just like switching around hand positions is good for neck, back, wrists--by "pedalling" differently, it can be easier on my legs overall after a long day cuz I can change which muscles are working more. The "scraping mud off shoe" motion uses lower calf muscles more, so can give a little break to the "push down pedal" muscles.
any others find this?
I find that by varying my pedal stroke, I can give diff muscle groups a little break, and just like switching around hand positions is good for neck, back, wrists--by "pedalling" differently, it can be easier on my legs overall after a long day cuz I can change which muscles are working more. The "scraping mud off shoe" motion uses lower calf muscles more, so can give a little break to the "push down pedal" muscles.
any others find this?
04-08-11 | 11:16 AM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 800
Likes: 4
From: Portland, OR
Well, 20 years of pedaling in unyielding clipless bike shoes left my feet pretty messed up - it got to where hotfoot would set in after only an hour if pushing at a decent pace or on hills. It got much worse after I quit running and started road cycling 10 yrs ago. Eventually I was wearing orthotics and even getting pain in the balls of my feet when I hiked also, which really set off alarm bells. Apparently the hard-soled cycling shoes with tight toeboxes and small SPD pressure point hadn't done me any favors.
Fortunately there is now a movement back toward healthy, minimalist footwear (even running barefoot!) and I found a younger podiatrist who is helping me return to healthy feet. Minimal soled, flexible shoes with a wide toebox, no more orthotics, and barefeet at home. Plus several exercises designed to strengthen the feet. I'm getting back to cycling with normal shoes and platforms again and the hotfoot is gone. I'd rather lose 3% efficiency and have some normal foot fatigue than force those dogs into hard, stiff soled shoes for extended periods anymore. It feels really good (literally) to get back to basics.
Disclaimer: I still use my Sidi mtn bike shoes and SPD pedals when riding singletrack - I've taken a couple nasty spills riding offroad without being clipped in - but the rest of the time it's free and comfortable feet for me.
Fortunately there is now a movement back toward healthy, minimalist footwear (even running barefoot!) and I found a younger podiatrist who is helping me return to healthy feet. Minimal soled, flexible shoes with a wide toebox, no more orthotics, and barefeet at home. Plus several exercises designed to strengthen the feet. I'm getting back to cycling with normal shoes and platforms again and the hotfoot is gone. I'd rather lose 3% efficiency and have some normal foot fatigue than force those dogs into hard, stiff soled shoes for extended periods anymore. It feels really good (literally) to get back to basics.
Disclaimer: I still use my Sidi mtn bike shoes and SPD pedals when riding singletrack - I've taken a couple nasty spills riding offroad without being clipped in - but the rest of the time it's free and comfortable feet for me.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your doctors name, I'd like to get a pros opinion on things (PM me if you would like).
04-08-11 | 11:22 AM
#29
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,037
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From: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes: Several
I always thought of that as a disadvantage. I figured that was usually just a matter of good form breaking down.
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Check out my profile, articles, and trip journals at:
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04-08-11 | 11:45 AM
#30
Fat Guy Rolling
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,434
Likes: 1
From: Louisville Kentucky
Bikes: Bacchetta Agio, 80s Raleigh Record single-speed, Surly Big Dummy
I quit using clipless a while ago. I still have the shoes and pedals in the closet in case I change my mind.
I'm my LHT I'm using MKS touring pedals.
On my single-speed, I'm using the Grip Kings.
My 'bent has some Wellgo pedals with spikes.
My folding bike has the stock folding pedals.
I wear whatever shoes are comfortable and convenient. I once wore sandals (with socks) on my 'bent on a group ride. I got teased a little for that.
I'm my LHT I'm using MKS touring pedals.
On my single-speed, I'm using the Grip Kings.
My 'bent has some Wellgo pedals with spikes.
My folding bike has the stock folding pedals.
I wear whatever shoes are comfortable and convenient. I once wore sandals (with socks) on my 'bent on a group ride. I got teased a little for that.
04-08-11 | 11:57 AM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,912
Likes: 1,242
From: Montreal Canada
option E, glad you didnt take it the wrong way.
interesting, talking of pedals so much, I really do believe that how a shoe fits ones feet makes a big diff. I tried on many diff shoes a few summers ago and having more of a narrow foot, the Specialized mtn shoes , 2 velcroes and a ratchet, fit me better than others I looked at. They were maybe $160 can, there were lots of good shoes in the $100 range, but these fit just so well, I figured over all the years I will use them, the extra money was worth the good fit and arch support that was better than other shoes too. For me, arch support and good fit makes a big big diff in comfort (obviously) but I find my feet are not all achey after a 100km day, and THAT is completely worth it. (plus, I want to be riding for another 30 years or so, so it just makes sense to go with what works best for your particular body parts, whether feet and shoes, bum and saddle, overall good bike fit for arms, wrists, neck etc)
04-08-11 | 12:06 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 800
Likes: 4
From: Portland, OR
Depends
Good form is all relative to a baseline assumption. If your racing it most definately is not good form, but if your cruising on a touring bike AND moving your feet helps your comfort, IMO it is good form.
04-09-11 | 08:15 AM
#33
Commuter & cyclotourist
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
From: Hadley, MA, USA
Bikes: Boulder All Road, Surly Long Haul Trucker, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Breezer Uptown 8, Bike Friday Express Tikit, Trek MultiTrack 730 (Problem? No, I don't have a problem)
I agree. I use platform pedals, and on a 150-200K ride I greatly appreciate being able to position my feet in different places. I use drop handlebars so that I have several different hand positions; I find that platform pedals give me a similar benefit. I also have weirdly shaped feet, and I've never found cycling shoes that feel comfortable over the long haul.
04-09-11 | 08:38 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 696
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From: Kimpo, S. Korea
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Expert 09, Custom 2013 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
Well I picked up my LHT this evening and got really excited. I just had him throw on some cheap 12$ pedals and they feel good But I noticed my big foot was right next to the fender while I was getting my fitting so I may end up needing toe clips :[ The toe clips in the first picture 10wheels put up actually don't look too bad.
But I noticed my big foot was right next to the fender while I was getting my fitting so I may end up needing toe clips :[ The toe clips in the first picture 10wheels put up actually don't look too bad.
04-09-11 | 09:41 PM
#35
Doesn't ride enough
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Carmel, NY
Bikes: 2010 Cannondale Caad9 5 / 2010 Surly Long Haul Trucker/ 2013 Orbea Orca Bli2 / 2011 Specialized Rock Hopper
As a test, I recently took part in my weekly fast club ride. I wore Jeans, rubbery running sneakers and used cage pedals..... I couldn't notice a giant difference and no one was suddenly stronger than me.
What I did notice was that you shouldn't wear jeans on rides longer than 30 miles or so. Anything under 30, and I'm not complaining.
What I did notice was that you shouldn't wear jeans on rides longer than 30 miles or so. Anything under 30, and I'm not complaining.
04-10-11 | 01:44 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,141
Likes: 12
From: New Jersey
Well, 20 years of pedaling in unyielding clipless bike shoes left my feet pretty messed up - it got to where hotfoot would set in after only an hour if pushing at a decent pace or on hills. It got much worse after I quit running and started road cycling 10 yrs ago. Eventually I was wearing orthotics and even getting pain in the balls of my feet when I hiked also, which really set off alarm bells. Apparently the hard-soled cycling shoes with tight toeboxes and small SPD pressure point hadn't done me any favors.
Fortunately there is now a movement back toward healthy, minimalist footwear (even running barefoot!) and I found a younger podiatrist who is helping me return to healthy feet. Minimal soled, flexible shoes with a wide toebox, no more orthotics, and barefeet at home. Plus several exercises designed to strengthen the feet. I'm getting back to cycling with normal shoes and platforms again and the hotfoot is gone. I'd rather lose 3% efficiency and have some normal foot fatigue than force those dogs into hard, stiff soled shoes for extended periods anymore. It feels really good (literally) to get back to basics.
Disclaimer: I still use my Sidi mtn bike shoes and SPD pedals when riding singletrack - I've taken a couple nasty spills riding offroad without being clipped in - but the rest of the time it's free and comfortable feet for me.
Fortunately there is now a movement back toward healthy, minimalist footwear (even running barefoot!) and I found a younger podiatrist who is helping me return to healthy feet. Minimal soled, flexible shoes with a wide toebox, no more orthotics, and barefeet at home. Plus several exercises designed to strengthen the feet. I'm getting back to cycling with normal shoes and platforms again and the hotfoot is gone. I'd rather lose 3% efficiency and have some normal foot fatigue than force those dogs into hard, stiff soled shoes for extended periods anymore. It feels really good (literally) to get back to basics.
Disclaimer: I still use my Sidi mtn bike shoes and SPD pedals when riding singletrack - I've taken a couple nasty spills riding offroad without being clipped in - but the rest of the time it's free and comfortable feet for me.
I was a clipless fan for years and still like them. But wearing hard cycling shoes punished my feet to the point where I developed a bad case of plantar fascitis that took two years and about 4 thousand dollars to heal! Once you get past 35, injuries to your feet take long to heal. I spent hundreds wearing orthotics and tossed them in the garbage since I could never get comfortable wearing hard plastic on my feet.
Long story short, I'm back to sneakers and barefeet at home! LOL! I cannot wear cllipless for long periods of time anymore before discomfort settles in. Do not under any circumstances ride clipless pedals in pain or you'll regret it. Use clipless that have a platform on the other side to give your feet a break from the pain.
04-10-11 | 03:41 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 654
Likes: 192
From: Dublin, OH
Bikes: Serial bike flipper
Funny story: I was out for a local ride today on my Fargo, about 3.5 miles from home I felt something weird and saw my right pedal (a BMX platform pedal) was cockeyed in the crankarm--it was starting to come out. I couldn't get it out, so I rode a few hundred more yards before it popped out. The threads in the crank had stripped. I had to ride the final ~3 miles home with by pedaling on one side. That's no easy feat when you can't pull up on the solo pedal. At least I had a tailwind
Anyway, it was a crank issue, not a pedal issue, but it does show a potential downside to pedaling free. I might bring a spare toe strap or something on rides now.
Anyway, it was a crank issue, not a pedal issue, but it does show a potential downside to pedaling free. I might bring a spare toe strap or something on rides now.
04-11-11 | 01:42 AM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 49
Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc
I usually use mtb clipless pedals on my bikes. This weekend I'm picking up my first touring bike (Surly LHT 2011) and I'm thinking of just using normal pedals. Lately I've really been questioning the benefit of clipless in general but I also just want to use any shoes. How many of you tourers prefer normal pedals and why? My friend tried to ride on a bike without clipless the other day and his leg kept popping up b/c he instinctively was trying to pedal up.
Also, is there a certain type of normal pedal I should look for? I pretty much never looked at them before but imagine some are better than others. I was thinking about one with a small platform.
thanks
Also, is there a certain type of normal pedal I should look for? I pretty much never looked at them before but imagine some are better than others. I was thinking about one with a small platform.
thanks
I have 3 pairs of non-clipless platform pedals in my spare parts box including the classic Lyotard pedals. I've saved them since I thought that non-clipless would become unavailable. Thankfully I don't need those old pedals now...IMHO any ride over 1 hr deserves clipless pedals.
04-11-11 | 05:47 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Kimpo, S. Korea
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Expert 09, Custom 2013 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
Funny story: I was out for a local ride today on my Fargo, about 3.5 miles from home I felt something weird and saw my right pedal (a BMX platform pedal) was cockeyed in the crankarm--it was starting to come out. I couldn't get it out, so I rode a few hundred more yards before it popped out. The threads in the crank had stripped. I had to ride the final ~3 miles home with by pedaling on one side. That's no easy feat when you can't pull up on the solo pedal. At least I had a tailwind
Anyway, it was a crank issue, not a pedal issue, but it does show a potential downside to pedaling free. I might bring a spare toe strap or something on rides now.
Anyway, it was a crank issue, not a pedal issue, but it does show a potential downside to pedaling free. I might bring a spare toe strap or something on rides now.
Yeah I met this old korean man that broke a pedal out in the middle of nowhere in korea and had to ride 15km on one leg hehe.
04-11-11 | 09:20 AM
#40
More Energy than Sense
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
Bikes: Co-Motion Divide
Great discussion.
The last few years I have alternated back and forth between clipless and clips. When I plan on doing some day hikes or walking, I will use Keen sandals and clips. If I plan to bike and cover a lot of ground, I go clipless. The reality is, I do equally well with both and can cover as much ground just as fast with sandals and toe clips. When I am using one, I really don't miss the other. It's funny because I think most of us had this OMG experience the first time we tried clipless and wondered how we ever biked without them.
I think the choice depends on your riding style. If you use good form and spin, you probably would be better off with clipless and your knees will also be better off in the long run. If you just push like most of us do, then I doubt you will notice a difference.
Clipless are better if you have knee problems because they allow your feet to float. Platforms give you more positions but they don't allow for flotation especially if you are using a sticky pedal with pins.
The last few years I have alternated back and forth between clipless and clips. When I plan on doing some day hikes or walking, I will use Keen sandals and clips. If I plan to bike and cover a lot of ground, I go clipless. The reality is, I do equally well with both and can cover as much ground just as fast with sandals and toe clips. When I am using one, I really don't miss the other. It's funny because I think most of us had this OMG experience the first time we tried clipless and wondered how we ever biked without them.
I think the choice depends on your riding style. If you use good form and spin, you probably would be better off with clipless and your knees will also be better off in the long run. If you just push like most of us do, then I doubt you will notice a difference.
Clipless are better if you have knee problems because they allow your feet to float. Platforms give you more positions but they don't allow for flotation especially if you are using a sticky pedal with pins.
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