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Are all tubes the same?

Old 10-16-12 | 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
when I was young and light I used light tubes, latex tubes and checked the tires every day before a ride and accepted that some butyl tubes lost 5lbs in a day. Now the difference between a 105gram tube and a 150gram tube or 150gram tube and 190gram tube doesn't have a practical difference given the spare 50lbs of fat on my body.
I think the opposite is true, except for the don't care part. Older tourist should get better gear to make up for the clogged arteries, and broken bits and pieces. Except that we have lost any illusions we need high performance gear because we are so dang hot. Lighter tubes and tires are one of the great freebies.

I wonder whether filling the tubes with some fancy gas would reduce or eliminate most of the repumping, until the tire flats, of course.
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Old 10-16-12 | 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Western Flyer
What has your experience been?
That latex tubes flatted less and provided a more lively ride, but lost air pretty quickly. When I ran them I topped them off daily.

I'd probably still used them if they were more readily available and cheaper. On tour when you have two tubes in use and two or more as spares the weight and bulk difference can be fairly significant especially for MTB or other largish sized tires.
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Old 10-16-12 | 07:55 AM
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I would like someone to explain the physics that would enable a tire with a latex tube to roll faster than a butyl tube. I can understand how the rubber on the outside of a tire could affect rolling resistance, but cannot understand how a tube inside a tire could affect it. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 10-16-12 | 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tarwheel
I would like someone to explain the physics that would enable a tire with a latex tube to roll faster than a butyl tube. I can understand how the rubber on the outside of a tire could affect rolling resistance, but cannot understand how a tube inside a tire could affect it. Maybe I'm missing something.
I can't give a real technical answer, but I am under the impression that a supple sidewall is key. It seems to me as if a tire with a thick tube would tend toward acting like a tire with a stiffer sidewall. That effects ride feel and rolling resistance both.

Someone correct me if I am out of my depth.
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Old 10-16-12 | 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tarwheel
I would like someone to explain the physics that would enable a tire with a latex tube to roll faster than a butyl tube. I can understand how the rubber on the outside of a tire could affect rolling resistance, but cannot understand how a tube inside a tire could affect it. Maybe I'm missing something.
alimentary! nowhere in that paragraph did they state that rolling resistance was measured
with tubes inside tires. in order to get a 10% difference, they would have to be measuring
only the tubes.

note to staehpj1: thicker = less supple = less casing deformation = lower rolling resistance
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Old 10-16-12 | 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
note to staehpj1: thicker = less supple = less casing deformation = lower rolling resistance
I have always read that "The higher the TPI number, the thinner and more flexible the tire fabric is. Thin-wall (high TPI) tires tend to be lighter and have lower rolling resistance, but they're more easily damaged by road hazards". The quote was from https://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html but I have read the same thing elsewhere as well.
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Old 10-16-12 | 09:29 AM
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that was my understanding of the first couple paragraphs in that article.

"According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is minimizing the energy lost to casing deformation, not minimizing how much tread is in contact with the ground. All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall."

.........which should indicate solid rubber tires will even faster.
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Old 10-16-12 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
that was my understanding of the first couple paragraphs in that article.

"According to Wheel Energy, the key to reducing rolling resistance is minimizing the energy lost to casing deformation, not minimizing how much tread is in contact with the ground. All other factors being equal, wider casings exhibit less 'bulge' as a percentage of their cross-section and also have a shorter section of deflected sidewall."

.........which should indicate solid rubber tires will even faster.
That's close, but if stated more correctly, WE's conclusion would be suspect. Correctly stated, rr depends on the cross sectional area being deformed, the amount of deformation, and the material being deformed. "All other factors" are never equal. "Wider casings exhibit less bulge" only when inflated to the same pressure as narrower casings. Etc.

IME all tubes which are not defective in design or manufacture and weigh about the same, are about the same. Of course some runs of some tubes have defective valve attachments and defective valves. I've run across these problems with many brands of tubes, regardless of country of manufacture. I've even purchased name-brand tubes which were too long and didn't fit in the tire unless folded. That wasn't good.

Thicker tubes do lose air more slowly. This is only an advantage if one has an inadequate pump. On our recent tandem tour, we ran thick 28-32 tubes for the first time. Since we pump to 120 psi, it was rather nice not having to pump every morning, as even pumping to high pressure with a Road Morph is not the most pleasant way to start the day. We carried thin 19-26 tubes as spares.

Tubes deform right along with the tire. I'm sure thicker tubes have a higher rolling resistance than thinner tubes.

I've not found that thicker tubes flat less often than thinner tubes. Maybe it takes a little longer for the glass or wire to work its way through a thicker tube, but through it goes. I've not used slime tubes.
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Old 10-16-12 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I've not found that thicker tubes flat less often than thinner tubes. Maybe it takes a little longer for the glass or wire to work its way through a thicker tube, but through it goes.
That is my experience as well. Back in my mountain bike racing days I remember that it seemed like the thin latex ones flatted less, but that was in an environment without glass or tire wires where pinch flats were most common.

I tend to prefer thinner tubes and tend to pick ones on the small side for the tire in question, sometimes even just a bit outside the range they are listed for. I figure that way they are lighter and the tires easier to mount. As a bonus save a bit of space in the tool bag. I accept the cost of having to pump them up more frequently.
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Last edited by staehpj1; 10-16-12 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 10-16-12 | 11:50 AM
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I like the Airstops. Heavy, but who cares on a touring bike.

Schwalbes are nice too.

Conti's aren't bad but I have had some problems with the Presta valves separating.


Originally Posted by LeeG
I"m trying out Michelin Air Stop to see if they hold air longer than the cheapos
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Old 10-16-12 | 11:50 AM
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I only buy tubes with unthreaded valves because the threaded ones wear out the rubber gasket in pumps
you are pushing the pump head on too far.. I have a Silca floor pump for presta,
All P/V stems have a smooth band on them, ( it is a common machine practice
to do that between 2 different thread types)
The gasket wear is near none , on my bell shaped air chuck,
since that self inflicted, forehead dope slap , had me change that practice.

Lezyne floor pump flip over heads depend in the fine thread in the stem being there

in the shop I see a lot of those smooth shaft stems fail at the bonding ,
because of wear and tear shoving the pump head on, w/o ring nut as back up.
[or, perhaps riding the tire under-inflated]
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Old 10-16-12 | 12:02 PM
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i buy the cheapest tubes i can find, they're like $3 a tube at wal-mart. i think they're either Schwinn or bell brand. the only issue i ever end up having is if i get the ones that have the slime anti-flat stuff, it likes to try and leak out of the valve-stem when i air top off the air, clogging the valve.

Last edited by mr geeker; 10-16-12 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 10-16-12 | 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
you are pushing the pump head on too far.. I have a Silca floor pump for presta,
All P/V stems have a smooth band on them, ( it is a common machine practice
to do that between 2 different thread types)
The gasket wear is near none , on my bell shaped air chuck,
since that self inflicted, forehead dope slap , had me change that practice.

Lezyne floor pump flip over heads depend in the fine thread in the stem being there

in the shop I see a lot of those smooth shaft stems fail at the bonding ,
because of wear and tear shoving the pump head on, w/o ring nut as back up.
[or, perhaps riding the tire under-inflated]
This is why I prefer threaded presta stems. Since I got back into cycling this year I've only been using Bontrager tubes from the LBS, and have had no problems with them at all.
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Old 10-17-12 | 05:20 AM
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I use whatever is the cheapest. Haven't had a flat in since late 2010. I don't find the cost of a tube to a big issue to my life if I'm buying new tubes every years.
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