Ultralight Evangelism.
09-05-12, 08:08 AM
#251
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Marmot Super-mica went unused when it rained on one of our biking days. Why, you ask?
Backpackers deal with this issue all the time. One of my comrades was a Long Trail/AT Veteran. When it began to rain and he saw me getting on my raincoat, he said "What are you doing? That's for camp."
Instead, I had my Merino Wool bike pants, my Under Armour t-shirt, and Merino Wool Arm Warmers from Smartwool. Water beaded up on the outside of the wool and eventually soaked in, but warmth was retained and 10 minutes after the rain stopped, I was completely dry. My best rain option has been to use my raincoat when my tent needs adjusting mid-storm, but for actual riding, merino wool is king.
Backpackers deal with this issue all the time. One of my comrades was a Long Trail/AT Veteran. When it began to rain and he saw me getting on my raincoat, he said "What are you doing? That's for camp."
Instead, I had my Merino Wool bike pants, my Under Armour t-shirt, and Merino Wool Arm Warmers from Smartwool. Water beaded up on the outside of the wool and eventually soaked in, but warmth was retained and 10 minutes after the rain stopped, I was completely dry. My best rain option has been to use my raincoat when my tent needs adjusting mid-storm, but for actual riding, merino wool is king.
Last edited by nun; 09-05-12 at 08:12 AM.
09-05-12, 08:28 AM
#252
thin wool layers don't hold that much water. in camp, with a wind break layer on, i've had good luck drying myself out.
and i also usually take a second layer for camp.
throw the wet stuff (not soaking, but damp, rung out, etc.) into the bottom of your bag at night.
will likely be dry by morning.
be warned if you bivy, you'll have more moisture inside than normal.
worked for me and a riding partner down into the 20s after we got wet in the 40s for several hours.
and i also usually take a second layer for camp.
throw the wet stuff (not soaking, but damp, rung out, etc.) into the bottom of your bag at night.
will likely be dry by morning.
be warned if you bivy, you'll have more moisture inside than normal.
worked for me and a riding partner down into the 20s after we got wet in the 40s for several hours.
09-05-12, 08:30 AM
#253
Senior Member
Thread Starter
all good stuff.
I keep toying with the idea of using Castelli NanoFlex and possibly ditching the Showers Pass setup
not too sure on that one yet.
that is, when I tried the TD, the weather was fairly significant. booties were like holding rice paper to a typhoon. post holing thru snow, etc...
definitely need either a hood, or a helmet cover. I opted for helmet cover when needed.
that 100 mile range you touched on, the key here is to simply be able to make that jump in one sitting.
it sounds kind of crazy, but each day on the TDR you have to average something like 120 miles per day, staying within 10% of the leader.
in real world "touring mode", being able to comfortably bridge a 100 mile gap in the dirt, pretty much places you at just about any logistical sources.
that goes to say, perhaps if you could manage about 10mph/av (fast) and put in a 12 to 14hr effort covering 100 miles
for me that pretty much equates to about 24 scoops of perpeteum.
2 scoops = 270 calories
so about 300 calories/hr (from what I know, is just about all your body can assimilate per hour)
beware of consuming too many calories per hour.
that puts me at about 4,000 calories of intake for 100 miles of dirt.
Hammer Nutrition has a lot of info on this stuff.
I'm pretty sure the caloric demand when all said and done is much more.
here is Day 2 from my attempt at TDR
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/38071110
[TABLE="class: summaryTable overall"]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Distance:[/TD]
[TD]122.34 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Time:[/TD]
[TD]10:35:41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Avg Speed:[/TD]
[TD]11.5 mph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Elevation Gain:[/TD]
[TD]7,782 ft[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Calories:[/TD]
[TD]8,018 C[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
32 scoops of Perpeteum comes in at about 4.8lbs = approx 8,600 calories
that 2 scoops/hr equation is not necessarily an absolute.
when I start out on a tour, I seem to be burning something close to this rate
but as the days go on, I seem to taper down, and start running leaner each day.
for me fuel and hydration seem to be the fuzziest variables.
it seems that every tour I end up not eating everything I've started with. At times I start giving it away.
when it comes to cooking, I ask myself if there its an advantage.
weight vs calories ratio possibly money comes into the equation. no doubt I've toured on under $10/day, eating quinoa canned tuna, and dried parmesan = cooking.
I love Snickers Bars, they are seriously dense in calories.
another are just about any enteral nutrition products which are found at places like CVS, WallGreens, Rite Aid, etc... products like Boost, Ensure, etc.
CIB is another oldie but goodie. Carnation Instant Breakfast.
one year while on tour from Astoria to Morro Bay, I stopped in Arcata, Ca to do the 12hrs of Humboldt. All I did was buy 12 bottles of Boost, and 1 bag of Jelly Bellies.
easy... consume 1 bottle per lap for 12 laps = 96miles and over 16,000ft of climbing .
the key here is to not chug your calories but instead try your best to meter your intake, you want to establish a baseline.
in order to do this, I simply mix up a volume that I can consume 300 calories/hr in 12 doses (5 minute intervals) of approx 15-30ml each dose, which is about 12oz every hour.
when you need to bolus calories, I'd eat some Jelly Bellies.
while on bicycle tour, I really like those stupid jelly orange slices.
obviously this process takes practice.
if you make it a regular part of your daily/weekly training, you can really start to nail your calories.
if you use something like a Garmin, it will estimate your the calories you've used up thus far. One of these days, I'll get a power meter of some sort, like a Quarq
of course if you do things like Double Centuries, some 24hr MTB races, etc... that experience is yet another tool in your favor.
clothing and sleeping gear. typically I ride thru the day, only pitching camp at the last minute.
1. to avoid "the explosion" where you pull everything out of your bags, and strew it everywhere. complete waste of time and energy. this can easily consume 2hrs per day if not careful.
2. I try my best to stay as mobile as possible, vs sitting around camp and staring at a fire. fire is fire, I've stared at enough campfires that I'm not curious anymore. I'd rather ramble about until 9pm, shower, then pitch camp, and go to bed.
3. typically when I shut down for the day, my body produces a ton of heat! I like to sit and do some kind of recovery, drink/eat whatever you can, stretch and massage my legs.
lately my tours have been in good weather. this last little jaunt the temps rarely dipped below 46F. I can still just lay directly on the ground and have no problems. If the ground is wet and its hovering in the 40's, I need some insulation. Doesn't really matter what it is.
vulpines are awesome
I have no idea why WTB has quit producing them for '13.
so this last jaunt I opted for the heavier Nanos, which are also awesome. old school.
electronics:
another major problem for me.
i try my best to simply ditch everything, but damn it, I still carry a cell phone camera, Garmin, digi cam, a Knog USB Boomer tail light (awesome), 1 Knog Frog front light (i use this light simply as a marker light), a Petzel E lite, and a Light and Motion Stella.
the light issue kills me.
at times I want to simply give in and use my Princeton Tech EOS Bike and use it for headlamp and bike light.
but that 300 lumens from the Stella is pretty nice. its definitely enough to ride thru the night with.
somehow when it gets dark, and I've finished some food somewhere, like mexi food, and I'm rested, I have this drive to simply want to crank out another 4hrs.
I keep toying with the idea of using Castelli NanoFlex and possibly ditching the Showers Pass setup
not too sure on that one yet.
that is, when I tried the TD, the weather was fairly significant. booties were like holding rice paper to a typhoon. post holing thru snow, etc...
definitely need either a hood, or a helmet cover. I opted for helmet cover when needed.
that 100 mile range you touched on, the key here is to simply be able to make that jump in one sitting.
it sounds kind of crazy, but each day on the TDR you have to average something like 120 miles per day, staying within 10% of the leader.
in real world "touring mode", being able to comfortably bridge a 100 mile gap in the dirt, pretty much places you at just about any logistical sources.
that goes to say, perhaps if you could manage about 10mph/av (fast) and put in a 12 to 14hr effort covering 100 miles
for me that pretty much equates to about 24 scoops of perpeteum.
2 scoops = 270 calories
so about 300 calories/hr (from what I know, is just about all your body can assimilate per hour)
beware of consuming too many calories per hour.
that puts me at about 4,000 calories of intake for 100 miles of dirt.
Hammer Nutrition has a lot of info on this stuff.
I'm pretty sure the caloric demand when all said and done is much more.
here is Day 2 from my attempt at TDR
https://connect.garmin.com/activity/38071110
[TABLE="class: summaryTable overall"]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Distance:[/TD]
[TD]122.34 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Time:[/TD]
[TD]10:35:41[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Avg Speed:[/TD]
[TD]11.5 mph[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Elevation Gain:[/TD]
[TD]7,782 ft[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: summaryTableLabel"]Calories:[/TD]
[TD]8,018 C[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
32 scoops of Perpeteum comes in at about 4.8lbs = approx 8,600 calories
that 2 scoops/hr equation is not necessarily an absolute.
when I start out on a tour, I seem to be burning something close to this rate
but as the days go on, I seem to taper down, and start running leaner each day.
for me fuel and hydration seem to be the fuzziest variables.
it seems that every tour I end up not eating everything I've started with. At times I start giving it away.
when it comes to cooking, I ask myself if there its an advantage.
weight vs calories ratio possibly money comes into the equation. no doubt I've toured on under $10/day, eating quinoa canned tuna, and dried parmesan = cooking.
I love Snickers Bars, they are seriously dense in calories.
another are just about any enteral nutrition products which are found at places like CVS, WallGreens, Rite Aid, etc... products like Boost, Ensure, etc.
CIB is another oldie but goodie. Carnation Instant Breakfast.
one year while on tour from Astoria to Morro Bay, I stopped in Arcata, Ca to do the 12hrs of Humboldt. All I did was buy 12 bottles of Boost, and 1 bag of Jelly Bellies.
easy... consume 1 bottle per lap for 12 laps = 96miles and over 16,000ft of climbing .
the key here is to not chug your calories but instead try your best to meter your intake, you want to establish a baseline.
in order to do this, I simply mix up a volume that I can consume 300 calories/hr in 12 doses (5 minute intervals) of approx 15-30ml each dose, which is about 12oz every hour.
when you need to bolus calories, I'd eat some Jelly Bellies.
while on bicycle tour, I really like those stupid jelly orange slices.
obviously this process takes practice.
if you make it a regular part of your daily/weekly training, you can really start to nail your calories.
if you use something like a Garmin, it will estimate your the calories you've used up thus far. One of these days, I'll get a power meter of some sort, like a Quarq
of course if you do things like Double Centuries, some 24hr MTB races, etc... that experience is yet another tool in your favor.
clothing and sleeping gear. typically I ride thru the day, only pitching camp at the last minute.
1. to avoid "the explosion" where you pull everything out of your bags, and strew it everywhere. complete waste of time and energy. this can easily consume 2hrs per day if not careful.
2. I try my best to stay as mobile as possible, vs sitting around camp and staring at a fire. fire is fire, I've stared at enough campfires that I'm not curious anymore. I'd rather ramble about until 9pm, shower, then pitch camp, and go to bed.
3. typically when I shut down for the day, my body produces a ton of heat! I like to sit and do some kind of recovery, drink/eat whatever you can, stretch and massage my legs.
lately my tours have been in good weather. this last little jaunt the temps rarely dipped below 46F. I can still just lay directly on the ground and have no problems. If the ground is wet and its hovering in the 40's, I need some insulation. Doesn't really matter what it is.
vulpines are awesome
I have no idea why WTB has quit producing them for '13.
so this last jaunt I opted for the heavier Nanos, which are also awesome. old school.
electronics:
another major problem for me.
i try my best to simply ditch everything, but damn it, I still carry a cell phone camera, Garmin, digi cam, a Knog USB Boomer tail light (awesome), 1 Knog Frog front light (i use this light simply as a marker light), a Petzel E lite, and a Light and Motion Stella.
the light issue kills me.
at times I want to simply give in and use my Princeton Tech EOS Bike and use it for headlamp and bike light.
but that 300 lumens from the Stella is pretty nice. its definitely enough to ride thru the night with.
somehow when it gets dark, and I've finished some food somewhere, like mexi food, and I'm rested, I have this drive to simply want to crank out another 4hrs.
09-05-12, 08:36 AM
#254
Senior Member
Different strokes, but I am not a fan. I come from a whitewater kayaking and canoeing background and remember how happy I was when synthetic pile garments replaced wool for kayaking in cold weather.
Last edited by staehpj1; 09-05-12 at 08:44 AM.
09-05-12, 08:45 AM
#255
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I think it's important to emphasize that UL doesn't need to be extreme, rackless or done to allow back to back 100 mile day doing the Great Divide. You don't even need to buy new equipment all you do is start to prune your gear list; leave that second pair of jeans behind. I'm convinced that may touring set ups with 4x panniers could be reduced to 2x panniers without any loss of comfort by a simple critical analysis of what is packed. This would make the whole touring experience more fun for the regular recreational tourist.
We packed with a Backpacker, who kept cutting things from our lists. "You won't need that! Bring one of those!" etc.
All 3 of us had minimal stuff. Jim had the most, and he only had two Ortlieb Back-Rollers- that's it.
09-05-12, 09:01 AM
#256
Senior Member
You don't even need to buy new equipment all you do is start to prune your gear list; leave that second pair of jeans behind. I'm convinced that may touring set ups with 4x panniers could be reduced to 2x panniers without any loss of comfort by a simple critical analysis of what is packed. This would make the whole touring experience more fun for the regular recreational tourist.
For most folks just leaving home every item you don't actually use and only taking one of the items you do where possible will result in a weight savings with no drastic measures or impact on comfort.
Also there is the how much/many of an item to take. A few feet of duct tape is one thing a full unused roll in another. No need to carry the giant economy size of anything. One each of most clothing items is enough, two at most.
If you go a step further and eliminate bulky heavy cotton and cotton blend items like jeans and sweatshirts so much the better.
BTW I have also observed folks carrying more by doing what they think is saving weight. One way that happens is when they try to get clever with multi-use items. For example on a backpacking board recently I read a suggestion for an item (newspaper) that they listed 18 uses for. With 18 uses for a single item it has to be a great idea right? Well since I normally wouldn't carry anything for any of those many uses it was just one more item that I didn't need.
Last edited by staehpj1; 09-05-12 at 09:08 AM.
09-05-12, 09:10 AM
#257
I think it's important to emphasize that UL doesn't need to be extreme, rackless or done to allow back to back 100 mile day doing the Great Divide. You don't even need to buy new equipment all you do is start to prune your gear list; leave that second pair of jeans behind. I'm convinced that may touring set ups with 4x panniers could be reduced to 2x panniers without any loss of comfort by a simple critical analysis of what is packed. This would make the whole touring experience more fun for the regular recreational tourist.
BTW: I'm surprised to hear your turn-around as the OP. Ultralight is more than a state of mind, there is a minimum weight which is small, although ill-defined.
Last edited by BigAura; 09-05-12 at 09:32 AM. Reason: clarification
09-05-12, 09:55 AM
#258
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The "ultra" in ultralight does mean extreme or cutting-edge. Learning from UL practitioners (backpacking and bicycle) how to lighten your load is a good thing but doesn't make you UL. Leaving a second pair of jeans home is just packing lighter. Get your base weight extremely low or preferably less, and then you're talking UL.
BTW: I'm surprised to hear your turn-around as the OP. Ultralight is more than a state of mind, there is a minimum weight which is small, although ill-defined.
BTW: I'm surprised to hear your turn-around as the OP. Ultralight is more than a state of mind, there is a minimum weight which is small, although ill-defined.
Last edited by nun; 09-05-12 at 10:17 AM.
09-05-12, 10:03 AM
#259
Senior Member
The "ultra" in ultralight does mean extreme or cutting-edge. Learning from UL practitioners (backpacking and bicycle) how to lighten your load is a good thing but doesn't make you UL. Leaving a second pair of jeans home is just packing lighter. Get your base weight extremely low or preferably less, and then you're talking UL.
If we stretch it to 20 pounds then just leaving unneeded stuff home and skipping jeans and hoodies might be enough to get some folks to ultralight. If we stick with 10 pounds as the line then not many folks have actually toured ultralight and it does mean pretty careful packing.
Me, I considered it borderline ultralight when I was at 22 pounds, but looking back I no longer do. Personally I now might put the line at 15 if pressed, but that is just an arbitrary choice not based on much. And I could see an argument that the line should be 10 pounds. The bottom line is that it is really just a label and only means something if the folks using it agree on where the line is drawn and care about the distinction.
That said I am curious where others would draw the line.
09-05-12, 10:14 AM
#260
Senior Member
Thread Starter
That does raise a question. Just where do we cyclists draw the line on what constitutes ultralight? Do we use the usual standard for backpacking which is often cited as 10 pounds or under? I think most cyclists probably consider something like 15 pounds (including bags) to be ultralight and some maybe even 20.
If we stretch it to 20 pounds then just leaving unneeded stuff home and skipping jeans and hoodies might be enough to get some folks to ultralight. If we stick with 10 pounds as the line then not many folks have actually toured ultralight and it does mean pretty careful packing.
Me, I considered it borderline ultralight when I was at 22 pounds, but looking back I no longer do. Personally I now might put the line at 15 if pressed, but that is just an arbitrary choice not based on much. And I could see an argument that the line should be 10 pounds. The bottom line is that it is really just a label and only means something if the folks using it agree on where the line is drawn and care about the distinction.
That said I am curious where others would draw the line.
If we stretch it to 20 pounds then just leaving unneeded stuff home and skipping jeans and hoodies might be enough to get some folks to ultralight. If we stick with 10 pounds as the line then not many folks have actually toured ultralight and it does mean pretty careful packing.
Me, I considered it borderline ultralight when I was at 22 pounds, but looking back I no longer do. Personally I now might put the line at 15 if pressed, but that is just an arbitrary choice not based on much. And I could see an argument that the line should be 10 pounds. The bottom line is that it is really just a label and only means something if the folks using it agree on where the line is drawn and care about the distinction.
That said I am curious where others would draw the line.
09-05-12, 10:26 AM
#261
Senior Member
.....and do you include the bike.....maybe 40lbs for gear and bike is ultralight. But this is really only meaningless fun for the people who look at this thread and say "oh great a UL thread", and it probably detracts from the possibility of "evangelising" heavily laden tourers into applying a few UL ideas. Most tourers would say it's crazy to tour with 20lbs of gear including bags when their Arkel pannier set and handlebar bag weight 10lbs with nothing in them. But if they were to just change a couple of pieces of gear and leave some behind they might be able to drop 10 or 20lbs.
On the combined bike and gear weight... That sounds like a valid approach. I have typically calculated it, but when discussing my load I typically only talk about the gear and bags.
09-05-12, 10:39 AM
#262
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For those of us that choose wool as clothing choice -
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
09-05-12, 10:49 AM
#263
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For those of us that choose wool as clothing choice -
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
1 pair of riding shorts, 1 pair of hiking type shorts, wool jersey, arm warmers, wind vest, adiamo underwear (can ride in them), 1 ibex woolie is sort of an absolute base for me. swap some thin man-pris for the hiking shorts if in the fall / spring.
patagonia nano puff or micro puff down sweater (no hood), etc. for cooler temps.
really depends. the thin ibex baselayers compress down small.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
09-05-12, 10:52 AM
#264
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes I do, but it also depends on the weight of the wool. Midweight Smartwool is a lot more bulky than the lightweight version, I stick with Smartwool socks and their lightweight balaclava feels great and is fantastically warm for the weight as are their beanies and neck gaiters. When my Smartwool long underwear develop holes (as my Smartwool stuff does more quickly that I'd like for such expensive stuff) I'll go over to the Techwick alternative and just wear Smartwool on my head and feet.
Last edited by nun; 09-05-12 at 11:18 AM.
09-05-12, 11:04 AM
#265
Senior Member
Thread Starter
1 pair of riding shorts, 1 pair of hiking type shorts, wool jersey, arm warmers, wind vest, adiamo underwear (can ride in them), 1 ibex woolie is sort of an absolute base for me. swap some thin man-pris for the hiking shorts if in the fall / spring.
patagonia nano puff or micro puff down sweater (no hood), etc. for cooler temps.
really depends. the thin ibex baselayers compress down small.
patagonia nano puff or micro puff down sweater (no hood), etc. for cooler temps.
really depends. the thin ibex baselayers compress down small.
I find the Marmot DriClime Catalyst jacket to be amazingly versitile. It's good for walking around town in spring and fall and when combined with a midweight layer is surprisingly warm. You can layer a couple of base layers and add a shell over the top for a very warm combination. I also like the Montbell UL Thermawrap jacket.
Last edited by nun; 09-05-12 at 11:16 AM.
09-05-12, 11:14 AM
#266
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I ride in a pair of "baggies" without a pad and a pair of padded underwear so I don't have to wash the baggies often. I carry a spare pair of underwear and as you point out they can be ridden in on their own......they actually cover up more than most lycra cycling shorts. I hope you don't use the Andiamo padded briefs, I would not feel comfortable riding in just those and certainly not walking into a store in them. I save the convertible long pants for camp and walking around town, but the shorts part on them are good fro riding in too.
i use the non padded andiamos when i get to camp, or if i need to change things up a bit (usually just for the first few miles).
For padded shorts I roll on some 2XU tri shorts (pad is super thin) or my Ibex bibs or knickers. I have a pair of ex-officio hiking / trekking shorts that I wear over, or in camp. Or a pair of MUSA knickers.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
09-05-12, 11:21 AM
#267
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I think it's important to emphasize that UL doesn't need to be extreme, rackless or done to allow back to back 100 mile day doing the Great Divide. You don't even need to buy new equipment all you do is start to prune your gear list; leave that second pair of jeans behind. I'm convinced that may touring set ups with 4x panniers could be reduced to 2x panniers without any loss of comfort by a simple critical analysis of what is packed. This would make the whole touring experience more fun for the regular recreational tourist.
no jeans.
jeans are another one of those household items.
they are massive, take up a lot of space, and are heavy.
at the most I carry a set of of nylon knickers, from the likes of Prana
09-05-12, 11:36 AM
#268
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For those of us that choose wool as clothing choice -
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
My impression is a spare set of wool cycling shorts takes up a lot of volume, relatively speaking, in the kit, to the extent I've considered packing only a spare jogging type short instead of a second pair of cycling shorts, and leave behind the thick wool layers in favor of microfiber (marmot driclime) and compressible insulations.
Does anyone else think wool as spare clothing is bulky when saddlebag'd?
the key is to only carry what you wear.
I like the bulk when it comes to using it as a pillow.
this last little jaunt I wore:
1 hincapie merino wool baselayer
1 wool jersey
1 pr DeFeet wool armwarmers
1 pr DeFeet wool DuraGloves
castelli bibs
castelli knickers
rei wool socks
I packed and never used, 1 hincapie super thin rain shell.
patagonia capeline long john base layer. this is my primary in camp wear.
1 Kifaru Parka. compresses down to about 1/2 the size of a small water bottle. I wear this in camp and sleep in it. its designed to allow you to just lay directly on the ground.
I also roll up in a Kifaru Woobie. sometimes I curl up into a ball, other times, I just lay sprawled out. depending on how cold it gets. I've used this setup down to 27f at about 7,000ft elevation.
1pr of Prana knickers and a pr of Crocs are the most frivolous clothing items I carry.
just about every night I rinse/wash my cycling clothing when i hit the showers. wring it all out, and let it drip thru the night. in the morning I peel that stuff on. no doubt its kind of whacky to don wet cycling clothing at 50F. But if you manage to not rinse out the wool jersey, having that over a wet wool base layer, it warms up pretty darn fast, which always amazes me.
Last edited by AsanaCycles; 09-05-12 at 11:42 AM.
09-05-12, 11:40 AM
#269
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more than likely any clothing that flaps around creates drag.
when it comes to shorts/pants, if your legs are sliding around inside the clothing, that creates resistance.
its much more difficult to ride 60 miles in a pair of knicker shorts that constantly rub against your knee/leg. a lot of effort is used in that articulated area to over come the clothing.
I like baggies too, but mostly wear them in town if I'm running errands.
when it comes to shorts/pants, if your legs are sliding around inside the clothing, that creates resistance.
its much more difficult to ride 60 miles in a pair of knicker shorts that constantly rub against your knee/leg. a lot of effort is used in that articulated area to over come the clothing.
I like baggies too, but mostly wear them in town if I'm running errands.
09-05-12, 11:47 AM
#270
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The "ultra" in ultralight does mean extreme or cutting-edge. Learning from UL practitioners (backpacking and bicycle) how to lighten your load is a good thing but doesn't make you UL. Leaving a second pair of jeans home is just packing lighter. Get your base weight extremely low or preferably less, and then you're talking UL.
BTW: I'm surprised to hear your turn-around as the OP. Ultralight is more than a state of mind, there is a minimum weight which is small, although ill-defined.
BTW: I'm surprised to hear your turn-around as the OP. Ultralight is more than a state of mind, there is a minimum weight which is small, although ill-defined.
something like a ceramic pump water filter vs a gravity micropore filter, is an easy comparison with gear.
the big difference is that a gravity filter requires actually getting the water into a container to let gravity draw it thru the filter
vs
a pump filter, that you can actually suck up water from a source.
or of course, if you happen to be cycling down the pavement, water filter is probably not even needed.
09-05-12, 12:01 PM
#271
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09-05-12, 12:17 PM
#272
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yes, wool is very bulky.
the key is to only carry what you wear.
I like the bulk when it comes to using it as a pillow.
this last little jaunt I wore:
1 hincapie merino wool baselayer
1 wool jersey
1 pr DeFeet wool armwarmers
1 pr DeFeet wool DuraGloves
castelli bibs
castelli knickers
rei wool socks
I packed and never used, 1 hincapie super thin rain shell.
patagonia capeline long john base layer. this is my primary in camp wear.
1 Kifaru Parka. compresses down to about 1/2 the size of a small water bottle. I wear this in camp and sleep in it. its designed to allow you to just lay directly on the ground.
I also roll up in a Kifaru Woobie. sometimes I curl up into a ball, other times, I just lay sprawled out. depending on how cold it gets. I've used this setup down to 27f at about 7,000ft elevation.
1pr of Prana knickers and a pr of Crocs are the most frivolous clothing items I carry.
just about every night I rinse/wash my cycling clothing when i hit the showers. wring it all out, and let it drip thru the night. in the morning I peel that stuff on. no doubt its kind of whacky to don wet cycling clothing at 50F. But if you manage to not rinse out the wool jersey, having that over a wet wool base layer, it warms up pretty darn fast, which always amazes me.
the key is to only carry what you wear.
I like the bulk when it comes to using it as a pillow.
this last little jaunt I wore:
1 hincapie merino wool baselayer
1 wool jersey
1 pr DeFeet wool armwarmers
1 pr DeFeet wool DuraGloves
castelli bibs
castelli knickers
rei wool socks
I packed and never used, 1 hincapie super thin rain shell.
patagonia capeline long john base layer. this is my primary in camp wear.
1 Kifaru Parka. compresses down to about 1/2 the size of a small water bottle. I wear this in camp and sleep in it. its designed to allow you to just lay directly on the ground.
I also roll up in a Kifaru Woobie. sometimes I curl up into a ball, other times, I just lay sprawled out. depending on how cold it gets. I've used this setup down to 27f at about 7,000ft elevation.
1pr of Prana knickers and a pr of Crocs are the most frivolous clothing items I carry.
just about every night I rinse/wash my cycling clothing when i hit the showers. wring it all out, and let it drip thru the night. in the morning I peel that stuff on. no doubt its kind of whacky to don wet cycling clothing at 50F. But if you manage to not rinse out the wool jersey, having that over a wet wool base layer, it warms up pretty darn fast, which always amazes me.
My plan is to replace my 20º EMS bag with a 15º down bag. I may default to a 30º, but we'll see. My sleep kit includes Smartwool Midweight Crew and Tights, Darn Tough Merino Wool socks, a synthetic beanie, and a Columbia High-Luft Omnishield fleece. Wrapping all of that is a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor Extreme sleeping bag liner, with a Thermarest NeoAir mattress.
Is the combination of the fleece, wool tights, and wool shirt bulky? Sure, and I don't bring all of them everywhere, especially in summer. However, by leaving the street clothes at home, I can warrant space for all of this and then not only sleep, but sleep soundly at the tops of mountains where it dips below freezing.
This past summer, I did not have the 20º bag, obviously. I had a $30 Fleece/polyester sleeping bag liner called the Razor from Alps Mountaineering. It wasn't UL, but it was UC, or Ultra Cheap, and it did the job all the way down to 40º on Mt. Hurricane.
My sleep system is one that I'm extremely comfortable in. My timeline for camping is now near-365 days a year without becoming uncomfortable or wishing I was home in a bed, which to me, is so, SO beyond important while touring.
Do I sacrifice comfort to tour UL? Not even a little bit.
09-05-12, 01:04 PM
#273
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My plan is to replace my 20º EMS bag with a 15º down bag. I may default to a 30º, but we'll see. My sleep kit includes Smartwool Midweight Crew and Tights, Darn Tough Merino Wool socks, a synthetic beanie, and a Columbia High-Luft Omnishield fleece. Wrapping all of that is a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor Extreme sleeping bag liner, with a Thermarest NeoAir mattress.
Is the combination of the fleece, wool tights, and wool shirt bulky? Sure, and I don't bring all of them everywhere, especially in summer. However, by leaving the street clothes at home, I can warrant space for all of this and then not only sleep, but sleep soundly at the tops of mountains where it dips below freezing.
This past summer, I did not have the 20º bag, obviously. I had a $30 Fleece/polyester sleeping bag liner called the Razor from Alps Mountaineering. It wasn't UL, but it was UC, or Ultra Cheap, and it did the job all the way down to 40º on Mt. Hurricane.
My sleep system is one that I'm extremely comfortable in. My timeline for camping is now near-365 days a year without becoming uncomfortable or wishing I was home in a bed, which to me, is so, SO beyond important while touring.
Do I sacrifice comfort to tour UL? Not even a little bit.
Is the combination of the fleece, wool tights, and wool shirt bulky? Sure, and I don't bring all of them everywhere, especially in summer. However, by leaving the street clothes at home, I can warrant space for all of this and then not only sleep, but sleep soundly at the tops of mountains where it dips below freezing.
This past summer, I did not have the 20º bag, obviously. I had a $30 Fleece/polyester sleeping bag liner called the Razor from Alps Mountaineering. It wasn't UL, but it was UC, or Ultra Cheap, and it did the job all the way down to 40º on Mt. Hurricane.
My sleep system is one that I'm extremely comfortable in. My timeline for camping is now near-365 days a year without becoming uncomfortable or wishing I was home in a bed, which to me, is so, SO beyond important while touring.
Do I sacrifice comfort to tour UL? Not even a little bit.
when I'm on a tour, i use the opportunity to somewhat pummel myself
i'm pretty sure its an old army throwback for me.
I like pushing myself to a degree of exhaustion.
tapas if you will.
I like being in that space. its a unique opportunity for me to focus like that.
often times, before i set out, I've already started to "tighten" my scope of living while still in town. sleeping directly on the floor and tapering off of things like coffee, etc...
spend more time doing a bit of yoga here and there, and meditation.
I can roll for a bunch of days, over and over like this.
my strategy is to refrain from laying around in camp as much as possible.
09-05-12, 01:14 PM
#274
On my packlist spreadsheet I have a multitude of total calculations that I use for different purposes but mostly so I can compare Apples to Apples.
Here's the totals that are calculated:
ALL GEAR WEIGHT
ALL SUPPLIES WEIGHT
GEAR & SUPPLY WEIGHT (ALL GEAR+ALL SUPPLIES)
TOTAL WEIGHT (BIKE+ALL GEAR+ALL SUPPLIES) <---- this is what I care about
GRAND TOTAL (MY WEIGHT+TOTAL WEIGHT)
`
WEIGHT CARRIED BY BIKE (TOTAL WEIGHT-BIKE WEIGHT)
BASE WEIGHT (ALL GEAR – WHAT I NORMALLY WEAR) <--- UL style
BIKE & GEAR
BIKE & BASE
Here's the totals that are calculated:
ALL GEAR WEIGHT
ALL SUPPLIES WEIGHT
GEAR & SUPPLY WEIGHT (ALL GEAR+ALL SUPPLIES)
TOTAL WEIGHT (BIKE+ALL GEAR+ALL SUPPLIES) <---- this is what I care about
GRAND TOTAL (MY WEIGHT+TOTAL WEIGHT)
`
WEIGHT CARRIED BY BIKE (TOTAL WEIGHT-BIKE WEIGHT)
BASE WEIGHT (ALL GEAR – WHAT I NORMALLY WEAR) <--- UL style
BIKE & GEAR
BIKE & BASE
Last edited by BigAura; 09-05-12 at 01:22 PM.
09-05-12, 01:14 PM
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ya, you got me on that one.
when I'm on a tour, i use the opportunity to somewhat pummel myself
i'm pretty sure its an old army throwback for me.
I like pushing myself to a degree of exhaustion.
tapas if you will.
I like being in that space. its a unique opportunity for me to focus like that.
often times, before i set out, I've already started to "tighten" my scope of living while still in town. sleeping directly on the floor and tapering off of things like coffee, etc...
spend more time doing a bit of yoga here and there, and meditation.
I can roll for a bunch of days, over and over like this.
my strategy is to refrain from laying around in camp as much as possible.
when I'm on a tour, i use the opportunity to somewhat pummel myself
i'm pretty sure its an old army throwback for me.
I like pushing myself to a degree of exhaustion.
tapas if you will.
I like being in that space. its a unique opportunity for me to focus like that.
often times, before i set out, I've already started to "tighten" my scope of living while still in town. sleeping directly on the floor and tapering off of things like coffee, etc...
spend more time doing a bit of yoga here and there, and meditation.
I can roll for a bunch of days, over and over like this.
my strategy is to refrain from laying around in camp as much as possible.
I envy you, and I pity you. But mostly, I envy you.
