Percy:

Thank you for the great idea. I didnt even think of that!

Thanks for the kind words about the blog. It has been a lot of fun to write. Feel free to subscribe and it will update you when I get my butt in gear and write more!

By what measure is the LightHeart "50% larger"? The floor space of the Fly Creek is 22 sq. ft while the LightHeart is 30 sq. ft. The head room of the Fly Creek is 38" vs 43". The vestibule on the Fly Creek is quite a bit larger...close to that 50% larger...and less stuff stored in the tent equates with more room in the tent for sleeping.

Since when is 'fiddly' an asset? We aren't talking about tents you can get at a big box store either. Both tents mentioned here are premium tents with a premium weight and a premium price.

But the tents you've mentioned aren't lighter and are only fiddlier. I've looked at the tents you are mentioning and I'm not impressed. They aren't enough lighter to trade ease of use for more complicated

But most times it does. Do you still ride an ordinary? The market spoke on that a long time ago. Still ride steel wheels? Again, the market spoke on a while back. Ride a bike equipped with a cottered crankset? The market speaks its mind again.

I do take what the market says with a grain of salt but I also take what proponents of old technology...and nonframe single or double pole tents are very old technology... says with a grain of salt as well. Sometimes improvements really are 'improvements'. The trick is to spot the difference.

For the same price and same weight, you can get a Fly Creek, with 22 square feet of internal space and a 5 foot vestibule and freestanding. You can also get a Solong, with 30 square feet on internal space, a 40% increase (I rounded up), and a 4 foot vestibule, you also get a few extra inches of head room. Surely, you can't argue with that.

For the same cost and weight, the non-freestanding one is bigger. If you want me to find a non-freestanding tent the same size as your Big Agnes, I'm willing to bet it will weigh less.

How about an MLD Cricket? 18 square feet, but with an 8 square foot vestibule. Add a pole and you get a non-freestanding shelter the size of the Fly Creek for only 650 grams. It's even double walled!

Or, we can look at Sierra Designs; they offer two 'ultra light' one person tents, one freestanding and one non-freestanding. The Sierra Designs Light Year 1 is non-freestanding, weighs in at 1.36 kg and has an internal area of 20 square feet/ The Vapor Light is freestanding, but costs $50 more, has an internal area of 15.5 square feet, and weighs 1.45 kg. Once again, the non-freestanding tent is lighter and cheaper for the same area.

When it comes down to the personal choice, that you can come down on either side; the ability to pitch the inner tent without pegs may or may not be worth the extra weight.

All free-standing tents are dome tents. They may not appear to be so at first glance, but a careful study of the geometry reveals their dome nature. Because the classic 3/8 geodesic dome in a small backpacking size does not lend itself at all well to the human anatomy in the prone position the dome arcs tend to be elongated, truncated and even segmented, and often several dome shapes are combined together to make a usable one or two person shelter. But they are all domes at their heart. But I take your drift. Big Agnes has a beautiful one-person UL free-standing dome that approximates an A-frame pup-tent. It is still a dome. But I also notice that most of the ultra-light one and two person freestanding tents are not truly free standing by your definition. They all seem to require at least one or two stakes to set the fly and/or vestibule properly.

Let’s use your term backpacking tent, but I think we have to preface it with the word “small” (read “pup”). Certainly there are some very large backpacking tents. The word backpacking is a bit awkward in that we are bike touring, but there are only two touring specific tents I know of and one has no poles at all. And bike touring in general is nothing if not adapting products and technologies from other disciplines and sports to suit our purposes, so “backpacking” it is.


I’m willing to accept you definition of freestanding, although I consider freestanding to be more of a marketing ploy than outdoor fact when dealing with ultra-light freestanding tents in even moderate weather. That is they are freestanding on the REI showroom floor.



I occasionally use guy lines in certain situations like high wind, but generally no guys are required.

I agree my UL two compression pole tent is at a disadvantage on certain surfaces, but I don’t see it as a “major disadvantage”. It can take a bit longer to deal with some sand or rocky surfaces. I typically carry 6 titanium needle stakes for the sides and two small aluminum V stakes for the ends. They are almost always up to the job. On soft surfaces I drive them a few inches below ground making “dead-man” anchors. On rocks the smallest crack or crevice that will accept even an inch of the needle stakes is more than adequate to the job.

Pitching on a concrete pad would present a bit of a challenge. Moving picnic tables, finding tree roots, lining up to the edges where possible. I’ve never actually needed to do it, but I think it could be done. I have moved picnic tables in other situations. Of course if the weather is nice and the bugs have gone to sleep, I have no problem sleeping on top of the picnic table or the concrete pad.

I think I’m getting too old to be pitching a tent in deep snow but I do own a few snow stakes. I occasionally take one or two along if I know I will be on very soft sand. More often I just bury a rock or small branch and tie off to it.

Looking from the other side, a small non-freestanding A-frame – pup tent has two major(?) advantages. On a gram to square centimeter of floor ratio it is far better suited to accommodating the human anatomy in the prone position. And with a little design ingenuity it can give you a good bit more sit-up head room than either a dome tent or a bowed tunnel tent with similar foot prints. So for me, perhaps me only, as a touring cyclist doing mostly thru camping (one night stands) and very few few day time hours spent inside the tent, my “pup-tent” is the correct choice. It is lighter in weight and packs smaller and in the vast majority of campsites it pitches and strikes fasters. I can and have done it in the dark without a flashlight it is so simple to put up. I am not saying the freestanding attributes you and others have enumerated here are not real or important, it is just I’m a gram counter and not willing to pay their weight penalty. Again, I sleep well night after night on the road.

My hoop tent stands on it's own about as much as the BA Fly Creek.

Now we are just talking about geometry. The Solong has more floor space but it's not as usable due to the diamond configuration of the tent. The head and foot of the Solong is 30 in wide while the middle...at the hips is 50 in wide. The Fly Creek is 48" wide at the shoulder and head which gives a much less claustrophobic feel especially if you are a larger person. In terms of sleep space, the Solong is about the same as the Fly Creek although the space is long and narrow. The wider hip area makes for great storage but isn't all that useful for sleeping It also has a taller middle but your nose is against the tent wall when you sleep. The Fly Creek is taller at the opening where your head is during sleep.

That's $295 for the tent and another $60 for the poles pushing the total to over that of the Fly Creek. I don't know about you, but I don't carry hiking poles with me when I ride a bicycle. I don't even carry them when I hike. And the trail weight of the Fly Creek is only 850g and it's easier to set up. If I didn't take the pegs, I could probably get it closer to the 650g.

But let's not forget what this thread is about. It's about a newbie asking about tents. A much better choice for Chefissac's purposes would be a tent that is easy to assemble and use rather then saving a few ounces.

I'm going to keep this debate going because I'm having fun, and I know no one else is getting tired of this.

I think that tent geometry is also a subjective thing. Having used tents with the peak in the center and above the head, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Having the peak over your head does make a small tent feel less claustrophobic when you're lying down, but becomes more awkward when you're sitting upright. Changing in a tent with the peak over your head is a little more awkward. That's just my opinion based on my experience using both configurations.

Really though, it doesn't matter that much, if you have a tent styled like the Fly Creek (and I speak only in terms of geometry here) you sit up and scoot to the front of the tent, if you have a tent styled like the SoLong, you scoot to the center. If you like to spend a lot of time lying down, but awake, and get claustrophobic easily, the Fly Creek style might work better for you, if you spend more time siting upright, the SoLong style might work better. Either way is perfectly livable and the difference is slight.


I'm sorry that the Cricket is a little to expensive, I just picked a light weight, non-freestanding tent with an interior space similar to the Fly Creek. It's hard to sort by space, so I accepted a bit of error. It's also a little smaller than the Fly Creek, but I figured there was still merit to the comparison. If you want, consider the extra cost a "Made in America" tax, or a "Supporting small business' tax, or something of that nature.


Anyone who wants to go on a bike tour is more than capable of buying and using a non-freestanding tent. It's a tent, not rocket science.

My opinion, based on my experience, is that I don't worry too much about sitting up in a tent. I don't spend a lot of time sitting in my tent. I use the tent for sleeping and not much else. The 30" width of the Solong around the shoulders wouldn't be all that comfortable either.

I would question whether someone of Chefissac's size is going to find any tent comfortable for sitting up in.

I agree that it's a personal taste. The Solong is too dome like...not all freestanding tents are 'dome' tents either, Western Flyer...for my tastes. I find a square footprint like the A-frame tents to give more useful sleeping space at the expense of interior storage space. I don't store anything in my tent, especially food stuffs, because I live in bear country so interior storage space is mostly wasted for my uses.


Big Agnes is a pretty small company here in Colorado. Yes, their tents are now made in China but they do have offices and employees in my state.


But I don't see the reason for going out of your way to buy a tent that isn't freestanding. As I said to MassiveD, I can pitch my tent in all the same places as a non-freestanding tent can be pitched and several places that would be difficult for a non-freestanding tent to be pitched. If I can't get my tent pegs into the ground...on rock or a concrete pad or under a park shelter, for example...I don't need to worry about any kind of anchor. I might pay a few ounces (but not many) penalty but I find the convenience to be worth the penalty.

Take a look at the Big Agnes Copper Spur 2, which is much roomier than the Fly Creek and only slightly more expensive and heavier. That would be my first choice in a lightweight tent for bike touring, if cost were not an issue. However, I ended up buying an REI Quarter Dome because I was able to get it for half the cost of the Big Agnes. It weighs about 1 lb more but packs just about as small, which is important if carrying in your panniers. REI stands behind their products, whether it's their own brand or others than they carry (such as Big Agnes).

I would agree. The discussion about the Fly Creek was only about the comparison of ultralight tents and off topic. The Fly Creek is a great tent for solo camping but I wouldn't suggest it...nor the Seedhouse...for Chefissac's needs. Both are too short for someone his size. I did suggest the Quarter Dome Plus which is longer and meets his height needs better.

Presently, I have 5 tents: Two 4-season free standing (Eureka Expedition, and Sierra Designs Omega CD), One 3-season free standing ( Sierra Designs Lightning 2), one-3 season non-free standing (Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight), and a pyramid (Black Diamond Mega-Mid). I also have two sil-nylon tarp tents. I've used all of them, except the expedition tents and the pyramid on bike tours. They all have their place, but IMO free standing tents are the most versatile. For most bike tours about any tent will work without major consequences. Again, it all come down to personal preferences.

If you look at pictures of Denali and Everest Base Camps you are hard pressed to find a non-free standing tent. There is probably a good reason for this, and it has nothing to do with marketing hype or being too lazy to learn how to set up another type of tent. The mountaineering community tends to use what works. Sometimes an inadequate tent is more than an inconvenience.

Couldn't agree more. One of the more fun places we camped out many years ago was on top of this rock formation and a free standing was the only option.

I'm not to sure that's the case. There look to be a lot of geodesic dome tents, but also a lot of tunnel tents and more than a few pyramids. There are even a few A-frames, but those look to be permanent structures. A lot of mountaineering tents are designed to be put up on narrow ledges, and freestanding tents do have a smaller footprint.

I prefer to try and go "lighter" so I would have a Tarptent Scarp 2 on my short list for a two person tent. It isn't a free-standing tent unless one uses the cross-over poles. Having used my Tarptent Scarp 1 on my recent Chasing the Dirt the tour I will be adding the cross over poles to my kit. More than once I had a bit of problem finding a rock or the like to get the pegs into some pretty hard ground, plus had to camp on rocks one night.


Tarptent Scarp 1 pitched on

Edaggee Station - Very hard ground here without much in the way of rocks

Andrew

Has anyone seen or tried the Bikamper from Topeak? Looks interesting...small, but you DO carry it!
https://www.topeak.com/products/Bike-Tent/Bikamper

I've never used that tent, but I have used that same set-up for my 9x9 flat tarp. That tent does look like it has some problems though, I'm not entirely sure how to even get into it.

This is a key point. You are 6'4", which means that most tents WILL be too short for you. And the useable length of free standing tents WILL be shorter than advertised. One trick is to push the footbox of your sleeping bag into your zipped rain jacket and then don't worry about condensation from your feet contacting the end of the tent.

Hilleberg gets you significantly better UV resistance, important since the sun kills tents by weakening the fabric over time. But whether it will be cheaper to buy one Hilleberg or several REI tents depends on your situation. They are indeed overkill for bike touring, OTOH there will be at least one epic storm where you'll be glad you have something more substantial. My Hilleberg has paid for itself several times versus a cheaper tent as rather than shirking from inclement weather by ducking into a motel I eagerly embrace it to "see what will happen".

The Kaitum gives you 87" of useable inner tent. One door can be left unzipped on the foot end to give the taller camper additional room at his feet. The GT models give more vestibule options. However, these tents are not free standing.

I use an Allak: with 91" advertised length, useable length for me is probably around 80", which is OK for me at 6'1" especially if I use the jacket trick. It is free standing and I regularly take advantage of all of the aforementioned benefits of this feature. It has a doorway and generous vestibule on each side of the tent.

For two people, the Staika at 56" wide may be more acceptable than the 51" wide Allak.

Also, and it is not a small thing, a Hilleberg is a great conversation starter. At campgrounds Europeans eagerly seek me out thinking that I am a fellow continentman.

I think some people need to realize that there isn't only one camping method that is perfect. I've used all kinds of tents and each has its own positives and negatives. At the risk of inciting another tirade I think it's pointless to judge gear by what is sold at REI. If you followed the advice of the REI salesman you would easily have 25-40 lbs of gear for a camping trip. That might be fine for the majority of people that limit their backpacking to a couple of miles but I definitely prefer to backpack in the 12-15 lb range.

As far as the original post I think he needs to be looking for a 3 person tent if he is tall and wants some extra room. I have the normal Quarterdome and it is kind of small inside with another person (5'10 and 5'5"). It doesn't bother me but I doubt the longer version is roomier other than the obvious extra length.

I'm setting up for a 2 month tour in Hokkaido next summer and currently an ordinary 8x10 silnylon tarp (1lb) with a bug bivy is my most likely choice. With the bivy and all lines and stakes the total weight is around 1.5 lbs. It's not the perfect shelter though but it's a lot roomier than a tent and offers a lot more ventilation in the summer.

I've also backpacked with these
5'8' poncho tarp - not really an option unless you really don't expect to get any rain. Held up to 12" of snow in a SoCal snowstorm (May 2008) until water was running under everything.
8'10' tarp - pretty awesome and light as long as you have bug protection and at least one high point to tie off to. Does not offer any privacy though if that's important.
tarptent virga 1 person - only 2 lbs but pretty small. The tarp/bivy is lighter and significantly roomier and typically more stable. This is an older model and the new tarptents have improved but I haven't camped in them.
REI Quarterdome and TNF Tadpole - I prefer the Quarterdome because it is lighter and it has two doors on the side. the vestibules are more usable also. I could also take this on my trip because there are more pitching options but it's also almost 3 lbs heavier.

What happens when you want to set up camp and then ride your bike?

At 3.5 lbs., you can get something that does the same job without tieing up your bike.

Footprints are designed to be slightly smaller than the tent floor so they don't overlap and poke out beyond the tent. I've used square blue tarps that extended beyond the edge of the tent floor and what happens in a serious rainfall is the water runs down the side of the tent and lands on the tarp and then runs under the tent between the tarp and tent floor. Then you have a mess because your tent is sitting on water and the slightest leak in the waterproofing on your tent floor will cause water to run inside.

The tent footprint is for protection against abrasion and puncture, not waterproofing so if you use some generic tarp, cut it down so that it doesn't extend beyond the bottom of the tent.

As for the bike. The seat gets covered, the important stuff goes inside the tent. If it rains and everything gets soaked I might pack up everything wet but at the first chance when there is sun I'll pull it all out and set up to dry out.

I use a GoLite Shangri-La 3.

PROS: It's lightweight and packs small, yet it's roomy and versatile. It can handle many different climates and conditions. If you're in a warm, buggy climate, you can pitch the inner "nest" by itself as a bug hut. If you're in a spot where bugs aren't an issue, you can pitch the outer tent by itself and open up one side to create a nice indoor/outdoor space so you can gaze at your surroundings and cook from your bed. Some people have also used these for snow camping. You can also forgo the centerpole and use some cordage to pitch it from a tree branch. I'm 6'2 and it fits me well. I haven't used it solo yet, but if I ever do, I think I should be able to fit myself and my bike in it. It also comes in dark green for you stealth campers.

CONS: Pitching is trickier and takes a bit longer than the average dome tent. The large footprint means you may have to look a little harder for a suitable spot in the backcountry, and it's not freestanding, so you can't pitch it on a slab of granite, but these issues have not been problematic for me so far.

Here's a good demo video featuring the green version.
(Note: As far as I know, Golite no longer sells the groundsheet. Only the inner and outer tents.)

I hope it wasn't a windy evening.

Either way, five minutes with a length of rope and a few branches/rocks/bags of sand/stationary bears and you're set.

Brennan
I put an extension on my center pole so I could pitch my Golite externally. It makes the interior space absolutely grand and allows for more romantic and warmer nights with two sleeping bags zipped together, assuming you have your sweet heart along.