Niles H.

How many things can go wrong?

What does it look like?

How does it happen?

This can be a resource for those who have an interest in these aspects of using alcohol stoves.

(Please keep posts on topic.)

Niles H.

Something begins to melt for no apparent reason. This is a surprise. One has never seen such a thing before.

Sometimes it is a plastic bottle that begins to melt.

Sometimes the plastic bottle contains alcohol.

The momentary fascination with seeing something begin to melt for no apparent reason, shortly transitions into the realisation that the meltdown is due to invisibly burning residual alcohol on the outer surface of the bottle, which has managed to become ignited somehow, even though the bottle is not particularly close to any flames. The thought occurs, Maybe it has something to do with the lower surface tension, surprisingly thin films, and rapid, unfamiliar spreading behaviors of the alcohol, coupled with the invisible flames?

Whatever. We need to put this out before the bottle melts any further and the alcohol spills out and spreads even more invisible flames all over everything.

Followed by varying outcomes, including further surprises and challenges.

[Have watched this happen, and have read additional accounts of similar events and responses, including the momentary fascination with watching something melt before one's eyes for no apparent reason, in unknown invisible flames, whether it be a plastic container, a tent floor or tent wall, some paint, a stuffsack, or various other items, outdoors or indoors,]

BigAura

I think "everyone" who has used an alcohol stove has been fooled at least one time by the invisible flame. I have been surprised but fortunately never really burned. It's a definite danger.

Burton

Obviously you have much more experience in this area than I do in this since in all my years camping I've never had an issue with any stove or any fuel type. But I do have a tendency to read and follow instructions and do the required maintenance.

So how about some detailed personal accounts from Mr Niles???? Photos would be nice too. To date I've never seen anything except references to things you've read about and stuff you've imagined.

Machka 

+1

We've been asking for that for years ...

rodar y rodar

You can drink 151, but not supposed to drink the HEET.
Or the stuff that works just as well for half the price, or denatured.

corvuscorvax

BigAura

Is this true? Niles has been posting longer than me, nearly three times the number of posts, and never toured?

bikemig 

Reading instructions is like seriously bad form; nope I just can't do it.

Machka 

It's possible! We just don't know because he won't post anything about any tours he might have done ... no photos, no blogs, no paragraphs in the Short Tours threads about a weekend tour he has taken recently, no descriptions of his own touring bicycle or touring equipment, not even comments like, "I toured France for a month in 2007".

What we do know, however, that he is well experienced with Google, and has posted heaps of threads and comments about other people and their tours, and reviews of equipment, etc. etc. etc.

shipwreck

One thing I like to remember is that for some, the Internet might be the only outlet for interests some one has. Even if the guy does not tour at all, and some of his comments verge on insulting for someone else( see my permathrin thread(can't link due to using my phone right now)), people can be fragile.
I don't post short tours(though now I might, have never even thought about it)or many pics of my trips, but
thats because I never felt the real need.
At Any rate, even when a poster is 'different' in thier approach, you never know what kind of psychological state they may be in. The Internet is a dangerous place for people to play at assuming things about another person they only meet through a keyboard. I for one do not want to mock, ridicule, or even show my anger at anyone.
I do know that for myself, this is most the only outlet I have for my interests, so kind of want to tread lightly.

BigAura

I agree with your sentiment. Personally, I wasn't trying to mock or ridicule, but expressing my surprise. I do agree that Niles has contributed to some interesting discussions and exhibits a lively personality.

That said, the touring forum is read by many novices for the specific purpose of gleaning first hand information from practitioners. When a newbie sees someone with thousands of posts, posting a seemingly authoritative statement, they might construe that as firsthand knowledge. A newbie might rely on this information to their own detriment. I'm careful about information that I post and avoid statements for which I have no direct knowledge OR I'LL include a disclaimer.

chefisaac

This could be a helpful thread.

Niles H.

I agree. It could help sharpen awareness on a variety of points and from a variety of angles, and contribute to clearer understandings and safety.

Maybe going forward it can be more on the topic and more in accord with those intents?

Machka 

I too, am not mocking. I'm genuinely curious what Niles' Cycling CV is. I haven't read everything he has ever posted, so it is entirely possible I missed the posts where he told us about his touring bicycle, or his latest tour, or his first tour, or whatever. But it seems that every time we inquire, he just gets upset and doesn't want to tell us.

In keeping with this particular thread ... Niles, tell us about the last time you toured with an alcohol stove, or maybe the first time you toured with one. Where did you go? (altitude and environmental conditions can sometimes affect stoves)

MMACH 5

Still trying to figure out the point of this thread. If it really is about surprises with alcohol stoves, then it was summed up in post #3.

The invisibility of alcohol flames is a bit unique. Otherwise it's all pretty basic flame and fuel safety.

But post #2 makes me think the OP is not really in search of any information. Rather a weak attempt at a smear campaign against a certain type of fuel. Is this another Mac vs. PC debate?

Niles H.

The topic of the thread is pretty clearly defined and described, even by the title itself; and there are many possible points and experiences to add. Please don't get too lost in speculations about this or that. It will unfold and become clearer with time. Please try to stay on topic.

'M'/C was a direct participant in various threads in which I talked about different aspects of my tours, and exhibited the same sorts of harassing and malicious behaviors and falsehoods on those threads, but much more extreme, and was warned about it. Others got involved and helped to shed some light on her behaviors and attacks, and finally she backed off. I don't trust her at all anymore, and I'm not at all interested in interacting with someone who has so clearly shown these sorts of behaviors, and so repeatedly. I've asked her to just stop and simply leave me alone; and I am saying it again here.

The topic of the thread is clear, let us try to move forward with it.

The second post described some of my own and others' experiences in relation to one aspect of using alcohol stoves. There are many more.

Experiences with other stove types are on their respective threads.

They can all be useful, at least to some of those who come to them with an open mind and a desire to learn.

chefisaac

I do have a question..... And I know this will vary on many levels but in determining how much fuel you use per day, is there a rough range or approximation to go by?

I've read about flare ups with these stoves. Wa causes this?

Niles H.

Good questions.

With the supercat, it is approx. 0.8 ounces of alcohol to boil two cups of water.

As you mention, there are variables like water and air temps, wind, size and type of pot, cooking styles, windscreen design, etc.

Flare ups are a relevant issue. There are others here who can probably say more on that. When hot alcohol is spilled, it can burn very fast and very hot. Flare ups without spills are something I would like to learn more about also.

Burton

Reading instructions is one of those things that can have secondary benifits. For example - its usually a good cure for insomnia!

prathmann

Agreed. Seems like it would be a good idea to get in the habit of adding a bit of salt to the fuel container when it's first opened so the sodium content will make the flames yellow and visible.

Burton

Now I'm going to quote you: The only kind of thats at all usefull is SPECIFIC information. That would mean specifing a brand and model of stove or the exact details of anything that was home made. Otherwise any construction differences would make one person's experience completely meaningless to someone else with different equipment using the same fuel.

And specifics regarding the circumstances are also critical in separating equipment malfunction from human error (stupidity).

So if you're really interested in putting together something useful - suggest you lead by example and start with some useful information yourself.

Maybe that might encourage a bit more participation - not to mention a bit more credibility.

Machka 

+1

And location of useage. As I mentioned, altitude and environment can make a difference, as can the actual fuel used.


Niles, did you use the stove at sea level or in the mountains? If you've done both, did you notice a difference?

Did you use the stove on a level picnic table? Or on an uneven surface? If you've done both, did you notice a difference?



(PS. Niles, Do you really want me to refer back to some of your previous threads where you've talked about touring "experiences". I suspect you'd rather not have those brought up.)

no1mad 

I just had to do some clean up, folks. Any action that may or may not be taking place behind the scenes is not up for discussion and the parties that are involved may be contacted privately.

Kindly keep it on topic or the thread will be closed and/or removed.

Siu Blue Wind

Alrighty. Thread closed per OP request. Thanks for playing.