Velocity Dyad rims - they build up very nicely, and fast because they are flat and round. Noticeably faster to build than Sun CR18 which is also a very nice rim. The Dyad is stiffer and lighter than the CR18.

Wheelsmith spokes - see Peter White's discussion (rant) on DT.

Hubs - now this is different from others: Wheelmaster Tandem 40H: https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-T...1&keywords=40H also available in Black. This is a 135mm OLD hub, with a 14mm axle, turned down to 10mm outside of 135mm, with BIG sealed bearings. It is glued together like a sealed BB. 14mm axles are 3.8X times stronger than 10mm axles used on Shimano hubs. (axle strength is proportional to the diameter raised to the 4th power - yes, I am a Mechanical Engineer). The stiffer axle also means that the wheel rolls better because of less deflection in the bearings.

no clue as to what is a part list for cassette drivers and any spares.. of those hubs.

Shimanos tandem hubs can be narrowed to 135 with axle parts swaps, they are sold with a 145 one.

then you know there are common parts.

Interesting about the Stan's wheels, I dropped into the LBS again today. They say that these aren't custom built; they just get them shipped in and have their guy check for even spoke tension, that's about it. That was how they responded to my request for suggestions for affordable touring wheels. They do specialise in touring and most of the staff are cycle tourists themselves (i.e. not the typical teenagers who don't know what they're selling unless it's made of carbon fibre), so I do respect their opinion on this.

However, they are also perfectly happy to do true custom wheels - I know they used to run wheelbuilding classes, so I assume someone in there knows how to do it - but they said that they aren't cost effective unless I'm unsupported in the third world, crossing the Nullabor or something like that.

As it happens I do want to cross the Nullabor unsupported. If your wheel busts out there, there are a few sections where you'd be pretty much screwed.

What about building my own wheels? I am mechanically minded and generally enjoy this sort of thing. I have access to a decent truing stand - though I don't have a tension meter.

Just built myself a set of new touring wheels (among others)... Arvon hubs (freewheel only) and Sun CR18 rims to better handle a wider width of tyre (26 by 1.5).

We have had no problem with CR18 rims at all... a great deal of this stems from the quality of the build.

Have also built a lot of wheels on Mavic 319 and 719 hoops with the 719 being many times better and a rim that sets the mark for being strong and relatively light for what it is.

Been OK for Decades with tension meter less Wheels ..
so 65er, what design for hubs did Arvon come up with?

Have you used this hub?

How long did it last before the bearings got rough or the freewheel failed? Is it really glued together, or is it perhaps a press/friction fit that requires special tools for disassembly?

You need to know hub dimensions and the ERD before you can calculate spoke length (to know what length to order). Some of this info can be found in spoke length calculator databases, and sometimes you have to measure to be sure. I use Spocalc (a MS Excel spreadsheet).

https://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm

https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I have too, but once you start using one you don't want to build without it.

My bike shop built my touring wheels using 36H Velocity Dyad rims, Shimano Ultegra hubs and DT Competition spokes. They are reasonably light for touring wheels but very strong. Mine have never broken a spoke or gotten out of true.

We have them on our Trek T50 tandem. Only have 1K miles on them, and as smooth rolling as ever. We are a 500+ lbs team.

I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, with a quite a bit of spindle experience; the rear hub look likes it is glued to together, just like a hard disk drive bearing cartridge. The matching front hub looks like a copy of my mid '80's Suzue hub with the bearings having a tight slip fit on both the hub and axle.

Thanks. It's hard to know much about a hub after only 1,000 miles, but the freewheel hasn't failed on a tandem, so that's a good sign.

A quick search shows there's now only 3 rims sold in 40h (other than NOS): Dyad (700), Aeroheat (26) and Rhyno Lite (700). A WM hub and RL riim with SG spokes could be built for <$80.

I just picked up a set of wheels on sale at an amazing price. Thought I'd pass it along. Shimano XT hubs, 36 spokes, DT Champion 14g, and Mavic A719 rims. I have been saving for a set of Phil Wood/Mavic A719 wheels, but the need arose and the deal was too good to pass up. I couldn't buy the parts and build them myself for that price, and I still have some $$ left to start saving again for the Phils. Here's the LINK. Not sure when the sale ends.

1. Affordable, I take that to mean spending just what's needed to get the durability you seek.
2. Heavily loaded, this sounds like carrying as much weight that is possible before going to a trailer.
3. Thinking of wheels for a long trip, Nullabor. Does that mean good roads or some dirt?
4. I don't recall you specifying 26" wheels or 700c

With that in mind I'd look at the wheels separately.
Front wheels last a long time so there isn't much need to go to great lengths, 36 spokes,Deore hub, and Alex Adventurer, Mavic 319 or similar touring rim.can't remember if you were getting a generator hub. Price it out, if the shops pre built front wheel is cheaper than building up go that route. Basically save your money for the rear wheel.

Then have the rear wheel custom built by the shop to match your load and tire size. When you said heavily loaded I'm thinking limits of what the frame and rack can take and needing larger tires. Maybe 40lbs on the rear? If you're going on bad roads and very heavy loads I'd go to something like Sun Rhynolite rim and 36 13g butted spokes. The heavier butted spokes cover the durability needs and the wider rim will provide better support for the sidewall carrying all that weight.

if you want to learn how to build a wheel do the front then have the shop check it. My focus is on the rear wheel because that is where spokes break and where getting tacoed/bent in a crash is more likely than the front. Frames can bend from hitting something straight on and not bend the front wheel. It's the rear wheel that gets the most abuse.

I'm currently unimpressed with Alexrims. I had an Alex ACE-19 (36 spoke) rim crack during my recent tour. It's only the second tour they've been on - both in the 300km range - and while I'm not a light packer - and didn't use front racks - I also wasn't carrying any camping gear or extra water this time around. I replaced it with a Mavic A719 rim, and although the dimensions are basically identical, I can really see the difference in construction. On the Alex, the reinforcing rivets only attach to the inner wall, whereas the Mavic attaches to both walls, so should be much more capable of handling loads.

I'm still riding on the Shimano Deore (LX, I think) hubs that came with my bike, and they seem hold up really for their price point.

Amazing number and range of opinions. The final answer is A719 rims with LX hub.

Bells, sirens and whistles sound, room fills with tickertape and I win the big cash prize for getting it right.
OOPS, I see it has been suggested already. I'll have to be happy with second prize then.

Hi again guys,

So far it's 36H Deore LX hubs - no dynamo. I did order some Alex rims but I just checked and it looks like the order's held up. Maybe A719s after all?

Through parallel evolution... Arvon hubs and Phil Wood freewheel hubs are very similar to each other and upon seeing his first PW hub Arvon said he thought someone had copied his design and that this Phil Wood fellow must have been a machinist like him.

Most important is the oversized axles which are very stiff and strong and the ability to add bearings to provide additional support... our heavy duty tandem hubs have 4 sets of bearings instead of the standard double bearing set up, track hubs have three, and my own touring hubs are a triple bearing model in the rear.

We also build front hubs with additional bearings as with a tandem or heavily loaded touring bicycle the front axle is put under a greater deal of stress as you often have to go over and through things... some very large riders also get these hubs for their personal bicycles. The extra bearings add very little weight but dramatically increase strength in the assembly.

When I was working as a machinist and pondering hub designs mine were nearly identical because we were all applying the same design principles and recognized the faults in conventional freewheel hubs that were originally designed for 5 speeds and after they hit 7 the bearing support was inadequate to prevent axle bending and breakage.

We have built cassette hubs using Shimano silent clutch freehubs in the past and are looking at suppliers who can offer us freehubs with a threaded interface and cartridge bearings that will compliment the hand built nature of our hubs. As we are not equipped to build freehub bodies we are looking for ones that will meet a stringent build standard.

The standard freewheel hubs we make can run a 9 speed freewheel with no issues of axles bending due to the extra outboard bearing support that is designed into these.

The feature I like about Arvon hubs is that they can be field serviced with the simplest of tools and overhauled in minutes with new cartridge bearings, they never need adjustment, and have seen them run well over 30,000 km and still be buttery smooth.

And they are really good looking hubs...

I am also doing well without a tension meter... I learned to build wheels in the dark ages and my fingers are very accurate torque wrenches.

I an going a different way with the set I'm building for my Dream Cannondale T-1000:
Velocity Dyad Black rims MSW Ben's Cycles
Velo Orange Grand Cru Touring Hubs, 36° F/R
135mm rear freehub spacing
The rear freehub can be purchased from Outside Outfitters at an AMAZING price.
https://www.outsideoutfitters.com/ps-...-cru-hubs.aspx

These Velo Orange hubs have 4 cartridge bearings, 2 in the hub shell and 2 in the freehub body, and disassemble without tools! That will make it easier to replace spokes, should the need arise.

Not sure about spokes. I usually build with Sapims, but will do the research before purchasing.

I couldn't find the Mavics at a reasonable price anywhere (CRC have only one left in stock), and the Alexrims I had on order didn't work out.

So... I ended up with the Deore LX hubs and Velocity Dyad rims.

Spokes will probably be DT Swiss double butted with brass nipples (not sure of the exact spoke model yet).

Good choice. I run A719s on Hope hubs with DT Swiss spokes. Home built but never need trued between rim replacements ( I find the braking surfaces wear quite quickly). The rims are getting a bit pricy too.

Great. Maybe you can get the wheels built in time for a spring tour on the new LHT frameset.

Originally Posted by fietsbob
Been OK for Decades with tension meter less Wheels ..

Ain't that the truth. For fun I'll try and guess my tension by plucking and listening to the spokes as I build up a wheel and often I'm not even close. Btw, I wouldn't even think about Alex rims for touring unless I had no other choice.

Plucking spokes is nonsense and a waste of time in my experience. Tension meter is the way to go.

I used to think Alex rim were junk too, but it's hard to deny the fact that Surly has been putting Alex Adventurer rims on thousands of LHTs for over six years with hardly any reports of problems. I used Alex TD17 rims to build wheels for my Disc Trucker, and after 1,500 miles I've had no problems. Even if I have to replace them every few years they're still cheaper than the alternatives since I can buy them for $22 ea! Dyad, Synergy, 319, 719, 540 etc cost 3X as much or more.

You might have a point on newer Alex rims, I know years ago, a nearby shop had a relatively high rate of failures and I always looked at the Alex rims as a 4th place finisher.