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wheel build thoughts

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wheel build thoughts

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Old 12-26-13, 09:24 PM
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donalson
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wheel build thoughts

I'm going to need a rear wheel for my tour this spring... I'm still trying to decide what way to go.

I'm heavy at 300# on a heavy 700c disc trucker and I will be carrying a moderate load (honestly unsure as this will be my first tour)... will be camping and cooking... I'll be riding the Katy trail (crushed limestone) with 38c or 42c tires, I do plan on using this for more "normal" touring with something more along 32c tires but I never see using smaller.

budget is a big thing, I'm between deore m525 or XT m756 for the hubs and velocity dyads, chukker, or mavic a719 for a rim...

for spokes I'm leaning heavily towards the DT alpine3 based on comments of some posters here on BF

because of the 135mm disc hubs and limited budget it looks like 36h is where I'm going (40/42h disc hubs jump in price A LOT)

from a straight strength view the Chukker seems like the way to go but looking out towards future tours I wonder about finding long stem tubes, the weight is prob a non factor considering my weight but still something that I think about in the back of my mind.

for hubs I can rebuild and adjust them without problem, weight difference is slim, they have the same hub flange dimensions, the alleged better bearing seals sounds nice but I don't see that as a big benefit from on road touring, is there more to it than that? any other brands to look at?

any thoughts or ideas would be great
thanks
mark
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Old 12-26-13, 11:23 PM
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Hi Mark,
do consider the Cliffhanger.
These have only recently been brought to my attention but it appears Co-motion have adapted them for some of their builds where they once used the Chukker (I think).
They are mentioned on a couple of recent threads and you can easily find them on the Velocity site.
If I have issues with my Dyads (fingers crossed I wont), I'll look seriously at both the Chukker and the Cliffhanger.
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Old 12-27-13, 12:57 AM
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The Cliffhanger seems to be wide for the tire sizes the OP is planning on using. Co-Motion only has the Cliffhanger as the stock rim on one tandem (with 50c tires) but they make extensive use of the Dyad, even using it as the standard rim on their quints.
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Old 12-27-13, 01:37 AM
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Other than the fancy premium wheel build, there is Pragmatic

Ageneric 36 spoke, with a free hub, hand tensioned by the seller..

if it fails , get a new one as required...29er will be as good as 700c by any other name.

Having a Disc brake , 36 spoke is about all there is ..

though the Shimano tandem hubs may be massaged to take one of the screw on disc adapters ..
Last I saw they built them like the Arai drum drag brakes were still made..

but a 40 or 48 hole hub will lay you up a while for special order replacement parts ..

if you break the wheel more than a spoke or 2.

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Old 12-27-13, 10:20 AM
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Donalson, are you building up a frame or changing a complete bike for your needs? $.02 is to consider that you're getting just a rear wheel since it gets most of the stress. Any hand built 36 spoke front wheel with sturdy rim will suffice even with your weight. Second I don't see any utility to going to 32mm tires for light touring at your weight, tire type will make a bigger difference for faster riding. The reason I suggest that is given your desire for max durability for the dollar "budget is a big thing" you can build a rear wheel with 36spokes (maybe 14/13 g Wheelsmith) onto a 27mm wide Rhynolite rim. They're cheap, strong and you can still ride with light 35mm tires or rock crushing heavy 42mm armored tires. While the other $90rims are nice the wheel builder will make more of a difference.
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Old 12-27-13, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
Any hand built 36 spoke front wheel with sturdy rim will suffice even with your weight.
You might be correct but I wouldn't chance it, @300 lbs + gear, I would use a 40 spoke rear wheel for sure and hope that I've over engineered. Hard to go wrong with Dyads or Mavic A719 but would definitely look into butted spokes.
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Old 12-27-13, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
You might be correct but I wouldn't chance it, @300 lbs + gear, I would use a 40 spoke rear wheel for sure and hope that I've over engineered. Hard to go wrong with Dyads or Mavic A719 but would definitely look into butted spokes.
That would be ideal except the op says low cost is important so he's going for a $35 36 hole hub, Rhynolite is a strong cheap rim for about the same price.
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Old 12-27-13, 06:33 PM
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Often machine built wheels come in at the price of the parts , same rim and Hub,
whereas hand made will add labor ,

you can get the shop you buy through to hand check the wheels when they come in.
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Old 12-27-13, 08:02 PM
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Lee, you're right, just did some checking around and it's tough to find many 40 hole rear hubs out there still, let alone anything reasonable. I guess if you can look at the long term, a Phil Woods hub if maintained could just about last forever. There's just not a lot worse then being "out there" and having spoke problems.
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Old 12-27-13, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
Lee, you're right, just did some checking around and it's tough to find many 40 hole rear hubs out there still, let alone anything reasonable. I guess if you can look at the long term, a Phil Woods hub if maintained could just about last forever. There's just not a lot worse then being "out there" and having spoke problems.
That's why I'd go for the Wheelsmith 13/14 g spokes. The disc wheel doesn't need a nice clean seam for braking, tire variability is greater than the hop and wobble in the cheaper rim. A lot of money can get spent for nth degree characteristics but if the load is big and money is dear just get cheap and heavy, it works.
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Old 12-28-13, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bezalel View Post
The Cliffhanger seems to be wide for the tire sizes the OP is planning on using. Co-Motion only has the Cliffhanger as the stock rim on one tandem (with 50c tires) but they make extensive use of the Dyad, even using it as the standard rim on their quints.
The 32c certainly - I missed that and spotted it with a reread.
The Cliffhanger came up somewhere else with a referral to the Comotion Divide Rohloff (a bike I'd recently considered).
A quick check of the spec confirmed it.
A prior peruse of their range of bikes steered me on using my current Dyads (which I happily utilise with a 50mm tire).
Fairly sure it was their Divide bikes that initially utilised the Chukker.
Another reason I went Dyad was weight as my Ogre is inherently hefty and my dynohub and IGH dont assist in that regard.
I think for 300+ pound I'd be inclined to steer away from the Dyad out of the current choice using 36H.
The Cliffhanger is 28mm so I think still worthy of consideration for the larger tires of his choice.
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/r...iff-hanger-622

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Old 12-28-13, 08:57 AM
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Only use 35 or 37mm wide tires, don't try 32mm. My 37mm tires hold 87 psig pressure. I would avoid any tire that does not hold at least 80 psi in the rear, but you could use less pressure in front.

The LHT spoke holder only carries two. Consider carrying more and the tools you would need to fix it. I carry spare spokes with the nipples threaded on inside my seatpost on my bikes that do not have spoke holders, I use a wine bottle cork to hold them in there. The cork dried out, I wrapped some electrical tape around it to make it fit tighter.

Katy is a very smooth trail, you should not be putting too much stress on the wheel on that trail. But take it easy on bumpy stretches, the bumps are where you will stress the components.
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Old 12-28-13, 09:53 AM
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donalson
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Sorry ive been out of good away from decent Internet for the last few days... posting this with my phone on edge network doh.... Thank you all for your posts

Any use of 32c would be for around town unloaded or minimal load like going to get a few grocery ... currently I'm running what I pulled off my 29er it's a deore lvl hub 32h with bontrager duster rims... nice and wide 28mm but I broke a spoke... i planned on upgrading to something stronger for loaded touring.... The bontrager is a nice mtb rim but loaded and my weight I want something stronger.

For 40h hubs... velocity has one at 2x the price of the XT hub... i know the extra spokes would be ideal but I can't justify it right now... If I find myself doing more loaded touring down the road... i had a set of hope hubs laced to delgadoX 36h that I abused on the trail for years without a hick up so I feel 36h with a stronger rim should do me well on the road even with a bit of a load

I may well build a wheel on the dh13 spokes with the rhyno lite rim... will do some more research when I get home


Thanks for the input guys.. But this is all I can stand to thumb out on my phone haha
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Old 12-28-13, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by donalson View Post
I'm going to need a rear wheel for my tour this spring... I'm still trying to decide what way to go.

I'm heavy at 300# on a heavy 700c disc trucker and I will be carrying a moderate load (honestly unsure as this will be my first tour)... will be camping and cooking... I'll be riding the Katy trail (crushed limestone) with 38c or 42c tires, I do plan on using this for more "normal" touring with something more along 32c tires but I never see using smaller.

budget is a big thing, I'm between deore m525 or XT m756 for the hubs and velocity dyads, chukker, or mavic a719 for a rim...

for spokes I'm leaning heavily towards the DT alpine3 based on comments of some posters here on BF

because of the 135mm disc hubs and limited budget it looks like 36h is where I'm going (40/42h disc hubs jump in price A LOT)

from a straight strength view the Chukker seems like the way to go but looking out towards future tours I wonder about finding long stem tubes, the weight is prob a non factor considering my weight but still something that I think about in the back of my mind.

for hubs I can rebuild and adjust them without problem, weight difference is slim, they have the same hub flange dimensions, the alleged better bearing seals sounds nice but I don't see that as a big benefit from on road touring, is there more to it than that? any other brands to look at?

any thoughts or ideas would be great
thanks
mark
A couple of notes on the spokes. Getting DT Alpine III is often difficult. You usually end up buying an entire box for around $80 and then have twice as many spokes as you need. SJS Cycles in England sells packs of 6 for $7. Shipping is around $15 to Colorado.

An alternative is Pillar spokes. Bdop sells Pillar PSR TB 2015 spokes in packs of 6 for $6.50. Shipping is around $10. The Pillars don't come with nipples, however. I've used them in a recent build and they are pretty good spokes.
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Old 12-28-13, 11:30 AM
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Check Universal Cycles For DT Alpine III (Black only but Mavic A719 seem to be black only too) by the spoke. Just bought some DT Competitions there, good fast service.
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Old 12-28-13, 10:02 PM
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When I was over 300 lbs. I went with White Industries 40 hole hubs and Dyads. Continues to work well for me.
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Old 12-29-13, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ClemY View Post
When I was over 300 lbs. I went with White Industries 40 hole hubs and Dyads. Continues to work well for me.
No doubt but a perfectly acceptable and tough wheel could be built for 2/3 the price of the White hub alone.
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Old 12-29-13, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post

An alternative is Pillar spokes. Bdop sells Pillar PSR TB 2015 spokes in packs of 6 for $6.50. Shipping is around $10. The Pillars don't come with nipples, however. I've used them in a recent build and they are pretty good spokes.

thanks for the link man... you are the reason I've been pretty set on some of the big end spokes... seems those Pillar spokes are actually 6.50 for 8... makes it a bit better of a deal... thanks man
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Old 12-29-13, 05:20 PM
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I was 285, run with a 20lb pack for day rides (tools, parts, food, clothes kitchen sink) and maybe another 10-15 in water if hot.

Got tired of breaking spokes on 40 hole. So this year when I built up a DT as my last bike (yeah, right), I went with Phil Wood 48 tandem hub, chukkers and Marathon 38's. Built by a local wheel builder who swore he could build on up a 36 that wouldn't fail. I went for overkill.

I've done a couple really dumb things when tired and worse when impatient and both front and rear are dead on true at about 2k miles. Jumped a couple curbs and once went off road to pass traffic when the ground disappeared for about 15 feet at 17-20 mph with a 30+ lbs in the pack. I'm not skilled, so landed it kinda hard. The wheels held!

Too much money, yep. But they are damn smooth. A slight clearance issue on the hub and the rear bb7 adjuster. A touch of pad wear took care of that. I might move up to 180mm rotor then even that's should be resolved.

I never worry they won't get me home, unlike the one's they replaced.
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Old 12-29-13, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowAndSlower View Post
Check Universal Cycles For DT Alpine III (Black only but Mavic A719 seem to be black only too) by the spoke. Just bought some DT Competitions there, good fast service.
Good to know. I bookmarked it, thanks.
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Old 12-30-13, 12:28 PM
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I've cracked Dyads, Chukkar are better and can also fit 28mm tires. Rynolites are better still (and cheaper) but 35mm is as narrow as I'd go. I have a White Industries hub, and it sure is pretty. But you can certainly be fine with an XT and a lower price.

Also, never broke an Alpine III.
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