53-11_alltheway

LOL, just flip the stem.

To me threadless is just better. Quill stems might look nice, but I don't think they are as versatile.

P.S. I saw that pic of the standard size tubing BB. That looks expensive and why bother anyway when OS tubes work.

Kogswell

When I get a new bike, I adjust the stem height during the first ride or two.

After that, not so much.

---

OS tubing generally means 28.6mm top tubes and 31.8mm down tubes.

The 28.6 top tube doesn't make any sense to me. Top tubes don't do a lot. So 25.4 works for me.

Oversized down tubes on the other hand make total sense, especially for track bikes.

e-RICHIE

snipped:

yeah what he said.
those strut things are decorative elements at best.
e-RICHIE©™®

53-11_alltheway

Sounds good so far. I always thought the Model G was a great deal, but the geometry wasn't to my liking otherwise I would have bought one a long time ago.

Ceya

Yeah but Johnny used to add his own and add more to connect to the tubes. I wish another guy I raced with is around , I would show you his frame.

Since it is not lugged , i will still comment but lugless and tig weld on a track is not me.

S/F,
CEYA!

53-11_alltheway

Those little connectors look worthless. I know you are one of the guys who like bling and NJS bikes for show so I see your infatuation with this oddity.

pitboss

yeah - for show. Get a clue 53: you have embarrassed yourself enough. Please shut your mouth now before your assishness outweighs your ignorance.

You do not know Ceya, and you never will. Please - go away already. Ceya is a benefit around here. You are dead weight.

baxtefer

you have no idea who he is, do you?

53-11_alltheway

Wow, I didn't even say anything about the little hand painted star on your quill stem and I got this response.

P.S. Baxetefer I don't care how important Ceya is or whatever. I still think those little "strengthening" connectors are a joke. **** he could be the president of the USA and say that.....guess what, he'd still be wrong.

And yeah I get sick of hearing how quill stems are "pimpin" and stuff like that when better/cheaper equipment is available. The SS/FG forum like it's quirkness and panache, but I just like the stuff that works the very best.

crust & crumb

if the frame is to be tig'd, we oughtn't strive for such a classic aesthetic. tig has its own vibe, and it's one which i find well apart from the elegant, graceful lines of a lugged frame. tig evokes adjectives of its own: stout, burly, substantial. it all has much to do with the bike's componentry.

probably the adjective associations i've implemented (they all find themselves in the end as being little more than cheap generalizations, i know, and for this i apologize) are derived in part from the gestalt of a bike much akin to this indy fab (an admittedly sub-par exemplification of this style):



so let's loose the flatcrown and go for something a little more straight blade.

Ceya

53-11,

You have every right to say what you will. Pres of the U.S.A .not.

I was showing what I was talking about but it is ok, he is not doing a lugged frame.

Breathe,53-11 ,, I am not into just bling and NJS but I use my bike(s).

I speak from experience..years of personal experience.

You say that they don't work, that should have been the end of your sentence.

The forum rules said no personal attacks . I don't do personal attacks, they are just plain stupid.

Just because I like classic stuff from when I started riding ....each his/her own.

The thread ask what do we want to see in the new frame so I posted my views.

Yes I agree I don't care how important Ceya! is around here, I don't think I am important.

You get sick about hearing about quill stems but why? I don't mine hearing about threadless even though I don't like or ride them . Everything has pros/cons.

I will help anybody acheive what they want in a ride(Tig,Lugged,Ti, Steel, Carbon). It is your ride and choice to pick anything you want.

Guys who have my back,

At ease! People have a right to say what they want as i spent years defending. If that what 53-11 believes then its ok. Life goes on..again breathe.


If you want this to go off line 53-11 pm or email me your thoughts , I will give you mine. trust me!

Kogswell,

I apologize to you for this going beyond the realm of what the topic supposed to mean.

S/F,
CEYA!

Ceya

C&C ,

Nice bike there! I think that bike is cool.

S/F<
CEYA!

Kogswell

Collaboration is a key element in our design process. We talk, think, rinse and repeat.

And there are indications that it works for many of the people involved; I know that I learn and it appears that others do too.

The thing to remember about Kogswell design is that we take different paths. If we make a TIG'd this year we'll make a lugged frame next year. So all comments, topical or not, are taken in and processed. The good ideas float to the top.

So comment and fight and discuss and be right and be mindful of what my grandmother used to say:

Personal remarks are never in good taste.

pitboss

Off Topic:

Ignorance again. But we are used to you talking and not walking by now. Yeah, that was a real picture of my bike, not a manufacturer shot though. People know I ride, and ride well. Where's your gear? Waiting to be "ctrl+c/ctrl+v" off the Fuji website, that's where.
Enough here - if you want to talk with the big kids, you gotta walk with them to. I'd love to carry this conversation further, so PM me if so. Otherwise, I apologize to the real riders here for interrupting.

Back On Topic:

Ceya

Kogswell,

Yes i agree 120% but 53-11 went beyond the scope of discussing the topic. I will defend my point even if pro or con. this is how topics get off line and kills a thread.

FG/SS has suffered this fate and is cleaning up itself.

Remember you have control of what floats to the top.

S/F,
CEYA!

Jose R

WRT stems:

I agree with Ceya that a quill is much easier to adjust than threadless; just loosen the bolt and raise or lower the stem. Easy.

But, I personally prefer threadless because I believe it is a stiffer design, and because I use carbon forks. Most carbon forks come with threadless steerers.

As far as adjustments with threadless; as 53-11 pointed out, I can just flip the stem, or have different stem/bars set-ups. Yes, more of a pain in the ass, but its works for me.

Track stem + track drops. Road stem + road bars. I just switch up the set-up before I head out.

ZappCatt

Another vote for threadless on a track bike.
I have a couple different stems from my road bike, and plan to have at least 3 different setups ready to go at a moments notice.
1) Track drops
2) pursuit setup with aerobars
3) road setup with brakes installed

trespasser

Angles should really depend on the size of each frame. 75 head and 74 seat might be good for frame bigger than 55, but I think 73.5~74 head and 75 seat would be better for 51 and 53.
Something along the line of IF crown jewel, but cheaper, would be really good.

jitensha!

speaking as a person who rides small (<50cm) frames, i prefer a steeper head angle, a short top tube and toe overlap. using a slacker head angle on smaller frames always seems to me like a concession to avoid toe overlap, which is a nonissue on the track (and nothing to really be afraid of on the street, IMO).

Kogswell

Thanks for that bit of input.

I had just read the previous posting and was thinking that people who ride shorter frames want the same geometry as those who don't.

This frame, like many Kogswell frames, will have more than one fork. One will be for track use. And another will be for those of us who like low-trail, zero TCO cycling.

Kogswell - the fork (IS) the frame

53-11_alltheway

LOL@ some of these responses.

I still stand by my previous statements that threadless is just plain better and cheaper and that BB "connectors" don't help.

trespasser

I ride 51 ST 51.5 TT, and it has 73 head tube, 75 seat, and it's got prenty of toe overlap. you'll get crank overlap as well as tyre/down tube clearance issues if head angle is too steep on smaller frames, so you'll need to steepen seat angle as well to compensate. And 76 seat angle is probably the max you want to go on stock frames. I would say go with 74 head 75 seat on 51 and 53, especially if you intend to make forks with tight clearance.

eyefloater

*hits "SPAM!" ...*

jitensha!

fair enough. the last frame i owned were a 50c-c Cannondale with 75 deg. head and seat angles. i sold that and now own a slightly smaller Spicer alloy frame with 74deg. head and seat angles. that's what i like.

53-11_alltheway

So how much will this cost? I'll take the hub too since I build my own wheels.