dutret

Maybe someone who can hold their line while reaching down and cinching or loosening the strap. In a group of clipless riders someone who has trouble clipping in gets in peoples way do you really think someone lacking both riding and strap ability won't?

Yeah I've seen plenty of people come with sneakers. They weren't people who abandoned clipless cause it didn't fit their aesthetic.

There is a difference between new riders and new tadashis. He came looking for advice because he was worried about spending too much of his parents money. The best advice is that if he wants to race track he should forget the vanity project, sell most of what he has and build a rival bike with a cheap frame and find a moderately priced used track bike.

bitingduck

And you don't think he can learn? I see a lot of hipsters with *way* better low speed skills than a lot of experienced road and track racers. A lot of them can't hold a line at speed, but they do tend to learn.

Again, so what. If its enough to get started and see if he wants to stick with it, then good. If not, he'll get bored and go away. You really don't need to put on the attitude when responding- it perpetuates the track snob perception that isn't doing anything to help grow the sport.


Again, SFW. He's interested in what it takes to become a better track rider. Maybe he'll do it, maybe he won't, but the responses you gave are likely to turn off other lurkers who might also be interested in becoming track riders. And I see plenty of vanity projects among experienced track racers-- they just cost a whole lot more and don't do a lot to make their owners any faster. We get all kinds of people who come out to learn to ride the track, sometimes with their fancy street fixed projects that might be totally unsuitable for the track. They tend to get a nice explanation of why they're not going to have a good time with the colored tufos and narrow bars, but the idea is to get them a safe riding experience, not drive them off. LA has *two* very active bbs's for kids who ride street fixed, and they're paying more attention to the track lately and starting to come out and take it seriously. There's a U23 national crit champion who started out in that world...

Maybe you ought to change your sig to "Stay offa my lawn!"

Briareos

I wasn't riding 7400 pedals for the "aesthetic", I want to ride them because it's part of the 7400 SET. If Look Keo's (Which I have on my Cannondale) were part of 7400, I'd have put them on the bike. Has nothing to do with looks of the pedals.

Do you people actually read threads before clicking "reply with quote"?

It has to do with the look of the cranks! They're gorgeous! But seriously, 7400 was like the last hurrah of the DT shifters run in cycling history and in fact it was optioned with brifters. I liked the black brake blades, I liked that it was Dura-Ace but cheap enough now to be accessible to me.

My only real track interest in TT's. Kilo's and Pursuits.

Anyway, you guys can keep fighting, I'm going to hit the Mech forum to see if my dual material System-Six frame can be painted in some other way than powdercoating (oven heat out of the question). I thought of this just last night: paint the frame completely black, go silver everything else, and have that small old school roundish font "cannondale" on the top tube near the headtube and "52" under the downtube on the seattube to make it look old school!

Black frame old school looking, '08 silver Rival parts, silver Thomson post/stem/risers and look Keo's with my Nike vintage cycling shoes I found at a garage sale with "hot yellow" laces (why yes, laces!").

How does that sound dutret?

But zomg, how much weight will automotive paint add! Gah!

dutret

Sure he could while getting in everyones way or hanging of the back. What do hipsters riding well at low speed have to do with this anyway? I don't think briareos is a hipster just that he is going to ride with pedals hipster style. Riding with clips and straps if you can't stay out of peoples way is a jackass move if you have clipless. Jackassery should be discouraged.

Then why didn't you explain to him what it takes to most efficiently become a better track racer, perhaps more politely then I am inclined to? There are plenty of vanity project bikes and for the most part the track ones aren't that offensive. In this case though we're talking about someone who explicitly mentioned that they were short on money and whose vanity project would not only fail to make them faster but actually make training harder. If he wants to race well and doesn't want to charge up his parents credit cards that much he needs to shift his priorities.

Aesthetics is more than just looks. Putting something on just because it has the same number is ****ing stupid. Anyway if you really must have all period correct parts try to find some of the 7401 look compatible pedals.

bitingduck

Getting into and out of pedals is a low speed skill. As is trackstanding, which eliminates the getting in/out entirely.


I answered his question: yes, training on a road bike will help. How he wants to do that is his problem, and he'll figure out for himself what makes sense in his budget (or not).

And I see plenty of outrageously expensive track vanity projects that make no sense at all. I have friends who ride some of them. Road projects, too. SoCal might be the center of vanity in the universe, and it isn't confined to hollywood. But I really don't care what anybody rides or why, as long as they ride straight.

Ste_S

1. No point in 3-5 hour rides for trackies, unless you're a Madison or Points Racer, even then...
Sprinters especially probably hardly touch a road bike, unless it's for a recovery ride or weight management. Intervals on a turbo or rollers, or intervals on the road where a fixed would do just as well. Start on a 70" (or lower !) in the off season and build to your race gear as the season approaches

2. I'd argue that fixed wheel for hills is better training for trackies. Over-geared on the way up for strength work, then spin like a loon coming down the other side. After all, how many hills are there on a track*? and no, the banking doesn't count as a hill

andre nickatina

1. Huh? Sure it does. Go study your physiology more. Base miles and tempo rides still have their place and adaptive purposes even if intervals are king. All the best mass starters I know also race/train on road. Hell, that Australian track coach's article that everyone always mentions basically says for mass starters / "enduro" guys / non-pure sprinters - go race road to get fast on track. Of course, there's a difference between the road racer that climbs well and fears the group finish with the sprint at the end, and the road racer that can't climb but dusts everyone else in the finishing sprint if it's a group finish, but still...

2. Agreed. Plus you get used to sprinting on the fixed gear which has it's little intricacies and differences to road bike sprinting.



Anyways maybe I'm just biased because points races are my favorite event

Ste_S

We're both agreed that 3-5 hour long rides are at best pointless, and at worst detrimental for sprinters ?

I still don't get the point of it for enduro riders, especially at amateur level. If your longest race is going to be an hour max, what benefit will a 3-5 hour steady endurance ride give you, apart from weight control ?

andre nickatina

Yeah I agree mostly useless for sprinters though rumor has it Chris Hoy does some endurance work, i.e. 2-3 hour stuff?

The 3-5 hour stuff helps improve capillary density and recruit slow twitch muscles needed for anything over 2 minute efforts. Also works the aerobic system to work more efficiently. Obviously the primary thing you need is a 'jump' and the ability to hold on through the initial burn in a sprint, but this stuff still helps out. Hell, look at Cavendish. He dominates a sprinter's road race and then kills it on the track...




Two charts basically saying the same thing, but...

ATP-Cr is used for the 15 second all out bursts, glycolytic is used for 2 minute hard efforts, and after that your body shifts to to the aerobic, oxidative system for an energy source. See why it's important to condition that aerobic system? Long rides do just that. I think longer intervals help with that too, like 20 minute TT's repeated a couple times with rest in between.

Ste_S

I don't think Chris Hoy does any road work, gym, track and turbo stuff only apart from recovery

Any evidence for the above ? I Would imagine a ride for 1-2 hours would recruit all the slow twitch muscle your average trackie would need

My regular Sunday ride is around 2.5-3.5 hours, I would never contemplate going over that and my longest race is a 50mile road race. If I was only do track, I'd be doing 2 hours max as my longest ride

Baby Puke

The UK track team does a lot of road riding. In fact, last year they did a stage race that included some climbs used in the TDF. Yes, even Hoy did this. Must be something good in it!

andre nickatina

As far as studies? I'll try to search in some sports medicine journals if I can...

Ste_S

Not that I've heard ? Got a link about this ?

I know Hoy did L'etape du tour in 2006, but that was for charity rather than for any training benefit

woodduck

yeah I'm with you mate, long slow rides make you slow.

all the endurance guys have to do really is train on the road.

I think some of the pure sprinters like riding their road bikes though, so it's just more of a enjoyment thing. Have a chat, catch up and what not.

Baby Puke

-Ah, that could be it. My mistake then, apologies.