Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

Problems with resistance using Rouvy

Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

Problems with resistance using Rouvy

Old 11-27-18, 08:21 PM
  #1  
travelerman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
travelerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Problems with resistance using Rouvy

I've had a Cycleops M2 for a few weeks; started with Zwift, then went to Rouvy to check out the real location video rides (plus, it is the native app for the trainer that updates its firmware).

With Zwift, the user is able to lower the effect of the resistance on climbs, which I did to try to dial in a more realistic application of force. I have found no such adjustment with Rouvy, which is frustrating because the ascents are in no way comparable to real-world climbing.

I can pedal a 12-15 percent gradient at an average speed of between 8 and 10mph (real world); a 5% gradient in a Rouvy training video is nearly impossible - lowest gear, much mashing, and I end up abandoning the ride after only about 6 miles.
I have run both cold and hot calibrations, but this is still occurring... I have contacted customer support, but until they decide to respond, I was wondering if anyone else has experience with this training app, and knows of a workaround...
travelerman is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 08:44 PM
  #2  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,700
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
I've had a Cycleops M2 for a few weeks; started with Zwift, then went to Rouvy to check out the real location video rides (plus, it is the native app for the trainer that updates its firmware).

With Zwift, the user is able to lower the effect of the resistance on climbs, which I did to try to dial in a more realistic application of force. I have found no such adjustment with Rouvy, which is frustrating because the ascents are in no way comparable to real-world climbing.

I can pedal a 12-15 percent gradient at an average speed of between 8 and 10mph (real world)
8mph up a 12% grade is pro tour level if you're doing it for a decent amount of time.
Perhaps it's closer than you think.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 08:48 PM
  #3  
travelerman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
travelerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 267
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
8mph up a 12% grade is pro tour level if you're doing it for a decent amount of time.
Perhaps it's closer than you think.
It can't be closer than I think when I am barely able to maintain 5 mph up a 5% trainer-simulated gradient (when real-world, I'm usually around 12 mph on the same gradient).
travelerman is offline  
Old 11-27-18, 09:42 PM
  #4  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,700
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
It can't be closer than I think when I am barely able to maintain 5 mph up a 5% trainer-simulated gradient (when real-world, I'm usually around 12 mph on the same gradient).
Have tried a rolldown calibration?
gregf83 is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 06:33 PM
  #5  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree there's something off with the resistance.

I've got the new kinetic t-6500 and yes there's something off with the rouvy interface. It works flawless resistance wise with its native software and works well on zwift. I've rode a bunch of courses on rouvy, a couple actually felt good, some were questionable but hard to say due to their nature of difficulty, some were just God aweful. The worst ones literally go from 30kph to a brick wall poor transition, 30 watt jumps where I'm putting out steady effort, but the worst is I know what output I can sustain. I've done an ftp test, and with rouvy I'm only able to sustain a much lower output. For me it's reading about 30-50 watts lower, and in race mode there's no way to compensate. Not sure if this is my particular trainer or not, the only way to really be sure is to use an independent power meter. Personally I do have a hunch that it's trainer specific though. It's discouraging looking at the numbers, it's also a bit dangerous because one will try to push harder than they should. It's incredibly frustrating because this has the potential to be a great tool, however neither rouvy or kinetic is making a formal statement on it. If anyone else is having discrepancies I encourage you to please write them and explain your findings as well.
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 06:35 PM
  #6  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Have tried a rolldown calibration?
I do calibration each ride. It's supposed to be about 7 seconds
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-07-19, 06:37 PM
  #7  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
It can't be closer than I think when I am barely able to maintain 5 mph up a 5% trainer-simulated gradient (when real-world, I'm usually around 12 mph on the same gradient).
Exactly how I feel...
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-18-19, 07:27 AM
  #8  
rbeckley
KokoDog
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 3

Bikes: Trek Madone

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gradient Differences in Zwift and Rouvy

I did an 18 mile ride up a hill and back in Rouvy today. I didn't think I would make it up the hill, even though the gradient averaged about 5% and maxed about 8%. When the gradient got up to 7% or above, I could hardly keep my pedals turning, even standing up on the bike. My FTP was over max. My heart rate was maxed out. Having ridden in Zwift for the last 2 years, I hit that same point when the grade is about 15%. In Zwift, I have done Alpe du Zwift 5 times, pushing in a low gear to get to the top, but never having to push as hard as I did today in Rouvy. Something is different with Rouvy. Unless I find a solution, I will have to give up on it since I will not be able to do any rides that have a gradient > around 6%. That eliminates most rides. I have a question in to Rouvy support and will post the response if I get one.
rbeckley is offline  
Old 02-18-19, 11:00 AM
  #9  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Which trainer are you using ?
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-18-19, 01:04 PM
  #10  
Pirkaus
Coffin Dodger
 
Pirkaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,648

Bikes: Motobecane Vent Noir, Lynskey R345, Serotta Nova Special X

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 450 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I use Rouvy with my Kickr Snap, the gradients feel correct going up. Descending is a little off, as you don't carry momentum, if you spin up and back off speed drops quickly. I use it for training, not to to replace road riding, I like the augmented routes, and guided intervals though.
YMMV
Pirkaus is offline  
Old 02-18-19, 01:20 PM
  #11  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pirkaus, it's clearly an issue with the algorithm that controls the resistance, it's not compensating for inertia, on flat or uphill. Zwift tends to do this better, also recently I've been using road grand tours, free to use as well. It has a setting to adjust the downhills to 100% which in turn carries momentum. The only issue with grand road tours is if you stop or drop the ant+ signal it takes a while before it realizes you're moving again. Worth giving a try though to compare. Seems like both rouvy and kinetic in my case just don't seem to care that the product is sub par. They have admitted that it's not working properly but no definite answer on when it will be resolved and they still take your money. Take a look at the reviews on the kinetic fit app! You'll get some insight as to how far the rott travels. I'm a bit disgusted that the industry is selling products without proper testing and development. It appears that we are paying to help them work out the bugs.
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 08:02 AM
  #12  
rbeckley
KokoDog
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 3

Bikes: Trek Madone

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gradient Differences in Zwift and Rouvy

I am still having problems with Rouvy with any hills over 7% grade. I am on a Trek Madone bike hooked to a CycleOps Hammer (original) smart trainer with a Wahoo heart monitor and a cadence sensor. I am running Rouvy on my Microsoft Surface Pro 6 laptop with Windows 10. I downloaded the route that I rode.

Rouvy Support suggested I check and reset my Bike Weight parameter.
This morning, in Rouvy, I set my bike weight (was 24; now 19 pounds), made sure my weight and height were correct, set wheel circumference to 2090mm, did a Re-Calibration and then road the same route (American Fork to Suncrest Summit Out and Back) as yesterday. My FTP is set to 150 watts. That may be a little low (maybe 160 is correct), but I did not do a new FTP test. I'm not sure if that affects this problem. I'll try that tomorrow.

With those settings, the ride up the hill was slightly (5%?) easier than yesterday, but I am still peaking out when I hit 8% or greater gradient, whereas in Zwift, I have done 15% or so before peaking out. I am standing on my pedals pushing 200+ watts at that point and just maintaining it. I was planning on doing the "Trail Ridge Road" next but see that it has a 13% gradient. That would be a dead stop for me. Maybe that ride is beyond my capacity and takes someone that can do 300-400+ watts. However, I have done the 15% gradient up to the Tower in Zwift many times. I'm not sure which (Zwift or Rouvy) is more realistic, but I emailed support again to see if they had any other suggestions before I "X" off any Rouvy ride with a gradient >8%. I do like Rouvy and hope to use it as an alternative to Zwift a couple times a week. In Zwift I have ridden all routes, many times, including 5 times up Alpe de Zwift.
rbeckley is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 08:55 AM
  #13  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The FTP settings should have no impact on a virtual route, only in a planed training ride where you target zones. Some trainers have a max gradient, and usually those steep sections are just short anyways I wouldn't worry about it stating 13% it's likely a very short portion. You're right about the bike weight it makes a difference. One thing about zwift if you're not already doing it is setting the difficulty to 100% in order to get a proper comparison.
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 12:40 PM
  #14  
rbeckley
KokoDog
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 3

Bikes: Trek Madone

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gradient Differences in Zwift and Rouvy

Siggersd, Thanks for your last reply. That explains the difference I am seeing. I wasn't even aware of the "Trainer Difficulty" parameter in Zwift, but when I checked it is at 50% for me, as defaulted by Zwift. So, in Zwift, those hills are mellowed out for me instead of being like the "real world". Yet in Rouvy, they are the real thing! That Zwift option is really nice and allows a non-pro rider like myself to climb anything in Zwift without hurting my knees or overstressing my heart. I am leaving it at 50%. I wish Rouvy had the same option. Without it, I will have to either skip those rides with high gradients or add a super-granny gear to my bike. If I understand it right, the super-granny gear option would be the hardware equivalent of setting "Training Difficulty" down from 100%. Thanks for your response to my notes. Search the zwift web site for a good article on "using the trainer difficulty setting".
rbeckley is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 12:51 PM
  #15  
siggersd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rbeckley there is a setting in rouvy to make the difficulty easier but you have to be in training mode (I believe that's what it's called) This means you can't participate in any events though. You can adjust it during the training ride on a slider scale. All that said it still though, in its bare form with difficulty set to normal levels there's still a ways to go to make it right. Maybe we expect too much, maybe the companies promise too much. It's a struggle for market share within a niche market where lack of transparency is apparent.

Last edited by siggersd; 02-19-19 at 08:24 PM.
siggersd is offline  
Old 02-19-19, 01:43 PM
  #16  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,040
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1600 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by rbeckley View Post
I am still having problems with Rouvy with any hills over 7% grade. I am on a Trek Madone bike hooked to a CycleOps Hammer (original) smart trainer with a Wahoo heart monitor and a cadence sensor. I am running Rouvy on my Microsoft Surface Pro 6 laptop with Windows 10. I downloaded the route that I rode.

Rouvy Support suggested I check and reset my Bike Weight parameter.
This morning, in Rouvy, I set my bike weight (was 24; now 19 pounds), made sure my weight and height were correct, set wheel circumference to 2090mm, did a Re-Calibration and then road the same route (American Fork to Suncrest Summit Out and Back) as yesterday. My FTP is set to 150 watts. That may be a little low (maybe 160 is correct), but I did not do a new FTP test. I'm not sure if that affects this problem. I'll try that tomorrow.

With those settings, the ride up the hill was slightly (5%?) easier than yesterday, but I am still peaking out when I hit 8% or greater gradient, whereas in Zwift, I have done 15% or so before peaking out. I am standing on my pedals pushing 200+ watts at that point and just maintaining it. I was planning on doing the "Trail Ridge Road" next but see that it has a 13% gradient. That would be a dead stop for me. Maybe that ride is beyond my capacity and takes someone that can do 300-400+ watts. However, I have done the 15% gradient up to the Tower in Zwift many times. I'm not sure which (Zwift or Rouvy) is more realistic, but I emailed support again to see if they had any other suggestions before I "X" off any Rouvy ride with a gradient >8%. I do like Rouvy and hope to use it as an alternative to Zwift a couple times a week. In Zwift I have ridden all routes, many times, including 5 times up Alpe de Zwift.
Are you using Zwift at default trainer difficulty or 100%? Default is 50% so you're only doing half the gradient. Very few people can actually do alpe de zwift at 100% trainer difficulty
redlude97 is offline  
Old 04-03-19, 09:03 AM
  #17  
boundah
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Sussex, UK
Posts: 1

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Wahoo Kickr Core

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had the same problem with climbing (grinding in lowest gear at only 7% gradient etc). I increased my wheel circumference setting by c10% and that made it much more like my real-life feel. AFAIK it makes no difference to power reading - just simulates lower gearing. PS I use Wahoo Kickr Core.
boundah is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.