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Winter Training Ideas

Old 01-30-23, 11:25 AM
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Winter Training Ideas

So what are people doing these days for Winter training? Have you changed what you have been doing? Has it helped?

My typical winter week is getting out to ride when the weather allows, with no plan other than just riding they way I feel like riding. That means no FTP tests or intervals.

But it seems that the new winter training advice is to dial back the volume, but not the intensity. And those long, slow rides are right out.

It sure would be nice to come into Spring with a solid fitness base (for once).

What to do?
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Old 01-30-23, 12:01 PM
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I don't have any specific winter training regimens, but I do lift weights more and also run more, but I also do those things year-round. Maybe if I lived in Alaska, I'd have a winter-specific regimen.



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Old 01-30-23, 12:03 PM
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when not able to ride I dabble in rowing, elliptical, hiking and over-eating.
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Old 01-30-23, 02:54 PM
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I never have a plan, so whether I come into spring strong or weak is totally dependent on how favorable winter was for riding. This post from @GhostRider62 a year ago had me thinking that I should really work more easy trainer miles into my schedule, especially during the winter: So.....in defense of junk rando miles.....
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Old 01-30-23, 05:17 PM
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I continue to do rides lasting between 4 - 5 hours in below freezing temps. Everything is slow and low intensity rides ( LISS ),with an occasional intense effort when climbing a hill or slogging through snow. I am not training for anything in particular but just riding for general health and fitness and trying to maintain my aerobic fitness.
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Old 01-30-23, 06:28 PM
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A bit of Zwift racing and a few intervals. A few longer easy sessions, but nothing over a couple of hours. I'm averaging around 5-6 hours per week consistently and my fitness is good - especially over an hour or two duration. Even set a few PRs recently, which actually surprised me as I wasn't really trying to.
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Old 01-30-23, 08:26 PM
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2nd half of tonight's ride I finally felt like I was getting somewhere. gotta put in your miles, right?
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Old 01-31-23, 06:00 AM
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I'm training hard this winter.

First off - I want to win the Tour De Bike Path in the spring. When all the hibernators wake up and start riding - I want to blow them away. They will know I was training hard!! /sarcasm/

I don't race, don't have the fitness or talent for it. I just want to hit spring with the ability to ride anywhere at any time. I traditionally eased up in the winter and spent the better part of spring rebuilding - spring weather is the best time to ride around here, so I just want to be ready to ride and enjoy, and have the ability to let it rip, relative to my speed zones, every so often.

If the training sticks - I may try a gravel race or two.
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Old 01-31-23, 09:22 AM
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Training 4 times per week on a plan provided by coach including attending his track training sessions. Also, I do a ski trip about every 3 weeks during ski season which gets me off the bike. Will ski today and waiting for the temperature to warm up. It was -8 degree this AM.
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Old 01-31-23, 12:45 PM
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Yesterday I saw a Robin in my yard and today I saw a whole flock of them. That means spring is here in my part of the world and it feels like it. I don't ever remember having a freeze once I see my first Robin around here. I know this sounds like a myth, but it's worked for years around here. What's funny is I never see them headed south as it's getting colder; I only see them heading north as the winter is coming to an end.
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Old 01-31-23, 01:00 PM
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I'm mixing in a little roller blading, ice skating, running hiking on top of 5-10 hours on the bike but have been recovering from Covid that I got Thanksgiving weekend. I figure some variety is better than nothing if the roads are bad. We have snish today, so, I went ice skating. If I wasn't so damned old, I'd play hockey. But I lost a month due to Covid and it will take me two months or more to get back to where I was. Until lungs aren't hosed, no intervals and nothing higher than low zone 3. Not optimal but better than nothing. I'd hire a coach but I am uncoachable.
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Old 01-31-23, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
Yesterday I saw a Robin in my yard and today I saw a whole flock of them. That means spring is here in my part of the world and it feels like it. I don't ever remember having a freeze once I see my first Robin around here. I know this sounds like a myth, but it's worked for years around here. What's funny is I never see them headed south as it's getting colder; I only see them heading north as the winter is coming to an end.
The plants around here (SF Bay Area) are convinced it's Spring. We have blooming daffodils (has never happened so early), and some of the trees are in full blossom.

But is was sunny and 32F this morning. Very confusing.

I'm watching the thermometer and will be heading out the door soon for some that "unstructured winter training".
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Old 01-31-23, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
I'm watching the thermometer and will be heading out the door soon for some that "unstructured winter training".
Update: It was a decent ride, until I got a massive puncture in a messy "bike lane ghetto" (bike lane that never gets swept, separated from roadway with concrete curbs). I booted the hole as best I could and started riding home, cautiously.

Until my front wheel hit something sharp (in a bike lane, of course). Pinch flat, and no more spare tubes. I tried to patch it, pumped it up and hurried home, but the patch gave way.

I made the phone call of shame.

I am discovering a new hatred of bike lanes. Filthy things.
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Old 01-31-23, 09:08 PM
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I'm trying to do the same thing I've done every year for the past 20 or so. I have software which builds custom plans of any length and intensity. I create an October-September plan and follow it as time permits. This year, I had a health issue and had to take time off, scrap the plan, and create a new one starting in January. This plan will peak at about 12 hours/week in summer. It always starts with a mix of moderate rides, pedaling drills, strength work, and walking. The hours increase, the walking and drills go away, replaced by a mix of Z2 and Z5 work, The Z5 stuff goes away, replaced by longer Z4 intervals, then a mix of intervals in all zones, all this with the usual Z2 and scarce Z1 rides. So it's trad and it works. I put all my workouts in TP and modify my scheduled workouts to keep my numbers about where I want them at that time of year. My secret weapon, not in the official plan, is to hike in the mountains every Monday, which follows the usual max strenuous group ride on Sunday.

Most of my steady-state Z2 rides are on the rollers, as it's too hilly here for me to do them outside. I also do intervals on the rollers, just because it's convenient. It rains a lot here.

Right now I'm doing a mix of Z2, Z3 intervals, strength training, hiking or skiing and neighborhood walks. The plan doesn't have me starting intervals until April, though I'll start getting them sooner than that, just by riding outside.
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Old 02-01-23, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I never have a plan, so whether I come into spring strong or weak is totally dependent on how favorable winter was for riding. This post from @GhostRider62 a year ago had me thinking that I should really work more easy trainer miles into my schedule, especially during the winter: So.....in defense of junk rando miles.....
You might want to read this too:-

https://uk.wahoofitness.com/blog/winter-base-miles-not/

Summary: the traditional long steady distance riding starts to look good at 16+ hours per week. If you don't have that kind of free time, then it's more efficient to follow a lower volume plan with more intensity.

If you already have years of training in your legs, then raising your VO2 max from 50 - high 70s is extremely unlikely to happen unless you "gear" up or are some kind of genetic freak.
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Old 02-01-23, 06:30 AM
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I personally don't feel a need to scale back at all in winter, I think a lot of us don't ride enough volume or race that much to leave one that trashed and needing a break. I've been keeping a 14-16hr training week, usually 14 these days as it's all indoors. Since November I've done the following blocks: 1) sweet spot 2) over-unders 3)vo2 4(current) mix threshold and vo2. These are made up of 2 interval training days and 4 endurance days. With easy weeks every 4 weeks, I'm always able to recover and am rarely burned out from volume/intensity
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Old 02-01-23, 08:29 AM
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This winter, as in the past, I have promised myself to get serious about base training, but it's too hilly around here for a weakling such as I to ride outdoors around here without spending significant time at or above threshold and I can't tolerate much more than two hrs on the trainer.
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Old 02-01-23, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Summary: the traditional long steady distance riding starts to look good at 16+ hours per week. If you don't have that kind of free time, then it's more efficient to follow a lower volume plan with more intensity.
Yeah, I suspect the vast majority of BF (except for the retirees and a handful of pros) would fall under the category of "time-crunched"...
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 02-01-23, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
So what are people doing these days for Winter training?
What to do?
Winter training?! What is that? I just ride my bike.



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Old 02-01-23, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Yeah, I suspect the vast majority of BF (except for the retirees and a handful of pros) would fall under the category of "time-crunched"...
Yep, that is the main issue. Plus I find it deadly boring in that kind of quantity. It's an all-or-nothing sort of deal. If you end up just doing an hour or two here and there of low intensity you are unlikely to see much improvement.
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Old 02-01-23, 09:56 AM
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That Wahoo post is absolute garbage and lies. You do not need 20-25 hours, who rides those kind of hours. Almost nobody.

To switch from cycling, Ed Whitlock ran a sub 3 hour marathon at age 73. His regular training was three 3 hour easy "shuffle" jogs per week and short runs on other days with a rest day. Probably around 12-14 hours per week max based on my reading his old forum posts. That is for the top of top AG marathoner of all time.

Almost nobody does 20+ hours per week unless they are trying to qualify for Kona in which case 1,000 hours per year is about the sweetspot for total yearly training hours in all three disciplines.

Inigo San Millan has said on innumerable podcasts that 5 rides of 90 minute duration in zone 2 is ideal. 7-8 hours per week. He then says he goes like "Hell" once in a while at the end of the end up the hill to his house. He has maintained his VO2 max and FTP for well over 10 years.

OTOH, if someone only has 3-4 hours to exercise per week, I wonder how they can spend 10+ hours per week on BF.

Rather than miles or hours, it is far more important to know how to monitor one's recovery and whether one is getting fitter. FTP is not important to me for endurance, it is nowhere near as relevant as power at VT1, not even close. FTP is the wrong metric for a tourist or randonneur and training that emphasises FTP will suboptimize your enjoyment and under develop the correct energy pathways.

Going hard in the winter with HIIT and easing up with increasing volume as the season progresses is the absolute worst thing an endurance athlete can do. Here is some data from Couzens and a quote

90% of endurance athletes are anaerobically overpowered & aerobically underpowered .l
https://alancouzens.com/blog/optimal_periodization.html
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Old 02-01-23, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
That Wahoo post is absolute garbage and lies. You do not need 20-25 hours, who rides those kind of hours. Almost nobody.

To switch from cycling, Ed Whitlock ran a sub 3 hour marathon at age 73. His regular training was three 3 hour easy "shuffle" jogs per week and short runs on other days with a rest day. Probably around 12-14 hours per week max based on my reading his old forum posts. That is for the top of top AG marathoner of all time.

Almost nobody does 20+ hours per week unless they are trying to qualify for Kona in which case 1,000 hours per year is about the sweetspot for total yearly training hours in all three disciplines.

Inigo San Millan has said on innumerable podcasts that 5 rides of 90 minute duration in zone 2 is ideal. 7-8 hours per week. He then says he goes like "Hell" once in a while at the end of the end up the hill to his house. He has maintained his VO2 max and FTP for well over 10 years.

OTOH, if someone only has 3-4 hours to exercise per week, I wonder how they can spend 10+ hours per week on BF.

Rather than miles or hours, it is far more important to know how to monitor one's recovery and whether one is getting fitter. FTP is not important to me for endurance, it is nowhere near as relevant as power at VT1, not even close. FTP is the wrong metric for a tourist or randonneur and training that emphasises FTP will suboptimize your enjoyment and under develop the correct energy pathways.

Going hard in the winter with HIIT and easing up with increasing volume as the season progresses is the absolute worst thing an endurance athlete can do. Here is some data from Couzens and a quote



https://alancouzens.com/blog/optimal_periodization.html
Hear, hear. Endurance rides aren't necessarily easy rides, or the word "endurance" wouldn't be in that phrase. I locate my VT1 HR and power and ride just a hair below that. And guess what? My VT1 power goes up, but not HR, maybe it goes down, and maybe just as important, my HR drift at steady power goes down. I just realized yesterday that TP has a number for drift if one uses both HR and power. Cool.

I do most of my interval work in the hills and most of my VT1 on my rollers. In summer, I don't do any formal intervals at all, no need, just ride hard. I've done fast (for me) 400s having never ridden more than 60 miles in training with lots of midweek VT1.

And thanks for that link, very helpful. I just took a look at my last couple days - hike in the mountains, IF .60, VT1 rollers, IF = .68.
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Old 02-01-23, 11:31 AM
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I’ve decided to get back into triathlon this year, so I’ve been swimming and running a lot more this winter. For the bike, I’m on the trainer doing TrainerRoad workouts most days, going outside when I can — that is when there isn’t an atmospheric river dumping on us.
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Old 02-01-23, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I never have a plan, so whether I come into spring strong or weak is totally dependent on how favorable winter was for riding. This post from @GhostRider62 a year ago had me thinking that I should really work more easy trainer miles into my schedule, especially during the winter: So.....in defense of junk rando miles.....
Interesting article referenced there:

How ‘Trainable’ Is VO2 Max Really? – A Case Study

What do you know? The "more volume, lower intensity" strategy really improved that athlete's VO2max!

That "volume > intensity" kind of matches up with my experience. My strongest year was when I was just riding a lot, with no agenda other than to accumulate a lot of climbing miles. Almost entirely easy/moderate pace rides.

That year, I managed over 1000 hours / 1.2 million feet, and:
  • rode the Everest Challenge for fun and won the public race
  • completed a hilly century in 5 hours
Thoughts:
  • The "if you train slow, you'll be slow" common wisdom may not be so wise, after all.
  • Is this "more volume, less intensity" the same as the popular "most of your time in zone 2" advice?
I think I'm just going to ride the way I feel, which ends up being mostly zones 2-3. And I'm not going to feel like I'm cheating myself.
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Old 02-01-23, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
That Wahoo post is absolute garbage and lies.
Yeah, he probably doesnt have a clue what hes talking about.

https://apexcoachingco.com/gym_trainer/neal-henderson/
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