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Calorie Counting

Old 09-10-23, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You take the word exact out of it's context and meaning....I didn't say I eat exactly the same amount of food at every meal every day....I said I just know exactly how much total food to eat every day. Some days it's less, some days it's more, the actual portion of food isn't always exactly the same. I just know what my body needs without having to keep track of any data.
Yeah I know what you said. It is impossible to know exactly how much food you ate today if you didnít keep track of it. Words like ďlessĒ and ďmoreĒ are not exact amounts.

Eating intuitively works for me up to a point, but if I want to lose a specific amount of weight in a specific amount of time then I track my calorie intake and calorie burn. I can lose weight without tracking calories, but itís never as consistent.

Just to be clear Iím not saying that calorie counting is the only way to lose weight. But it is definitely one way that works for some people and many pro athletes do it routinely.

Last edited by PeteHski; 09-10-23 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 09-11-23, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
funny. my goal is 196 (I started at 229), Noom says my goal should be 136 - 179. well, that's not gonna happen, my HS weight was 175. but they assure me in 6months I'll get there! um, nope

but I like that they highlight motivation. because you gotta have motivation!
A note on goals. When I was 325 lbs, I thought if I could get to 275 I'd be happy, but once I really started seeing success on my plan, and the lifestyle changes (logging, daily exercise, portion control, etc) became more natural, I blew through 275 and set my target at 225. When I got to 225, I realized that getting to my recommended "normal" weight was not only achievable by simply keeping up my new healthier habits, but also that the benefits of being "normal" size were well worth the effort.

I haven't used Noom, so I can't speak to their timeline, but if you can make it to 196, I bet you can make it to 175. It'll just be a matter of sticking to the lifestyle changes that are already working for you.
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Old 09-12-23, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6

the formula my nephew suggested was, take your target weight, multiple it by 12 & that is your total daily calorie limit
I think that formula depends on things like your metabolism, age, body type, etc. When I was in my 30's I could do 15 cals per lb of ideal weight. Today at 77 it's more like 10 cals. But, generally, calorie counting works for me.
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Old 09-12-23, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
I think that formula depends on things like your metabolism, age, body type, etc. When I was in my 30's I could do 15 cals per lb of ideal weight. Today at 77 it's more like 10 cals. But, generally, calorie counting works for me.
yeah I had lots of questions & doubts but figured I'd give it a try. I suspect my calorie limit can be lower. but if I'm not careful I can easily go over. so I'm really trying to stay on my limit, for a while. as of this morning, I'm down another lb, so I'm going in the right direction
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Old 09-12-23, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bbbean
A note on goals. When I was 325 lbs, I thought if I could get to 275 I'd be happy, but once I really started seeing success on my plan, and the lifestyle changes (logging, daily exercise, portion control, etc) became more natural, I blew through 275 and set my target at 225. When I got to 225, I realized that getting to my recommended "normal" weight was not only achievable by simply keeping up my new healthier habits, but also that the benefits of being "normal" size were well worth the effort.

I haven't used Noom, so I can't speak to their timeline, but if you can make it to 196, I bet you can make it to 175. It'll just be a matter of sticking to the lifestyle changes that are already working for you.
thank you yes. but 175 is not my goal, nor is 136 lol

also I'm not using Noom, I was just looking at their tool, on their website

your weight loss sounds amazing! well done!

fwiw - I went thru a body transformation between 40 & 50 (64 now). during that time, I did a lot of work losing fat & building muscle, w/o a lot of weight loss (235? to 206?). but I was in the shape of my life. I think the lowest I got was 206. & I think that's about when a trainer told me to shoot for 196. so I'm kinda hanging on to that as my goal. if I ever get there, I'll get back to you about going lower ... ;-) thanks again for sharing

Last edited by rumrunn6; 09-12-23 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 09-12-23, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
yeah I had lots of questions & doubts but figured I'd give it a try. I suspect my calorie limit can be lower. but if I'm not careful I can easily go over. so I'm really trying to stay on my limit, for a while. as of this morning, I'm down another lb, so I'm going in the right direction
I always have to tell myself to be patient. And, that's not my strong suit.
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Old 09-12-23, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
I think that's about when a trainer told me to shoot for 196. so I'm kinda hanging on to that as my goal. if I ever get there, I'll get back to you about going lower ... ;-) thanks again for sharing
You won't need to. You'll already know what works for you.
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Old 09-14-23, 05:29 AM
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Calorie counting is a practical approach. Comparing food choices helps make informed decisions for a healthier lifestyle. Good luck with your journey to better health!
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Old 09-21-23, 09:22 AM
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for my own reference: down 8lbs
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Old 10-21-23, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
also, +1 on mustard. An explosion of flavor for very small caloric cost.
Speaking of mustard, I've found this to be a pretty good recipe for a flavorful traditional mustard:

https://www.splendidtable.org/recipes/roman-mustard
https://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-m...124-story.html

Aside from the soaking of the mustard seeds ahead of time (which can be up to two days' waiting), it's a quick preparation. Easily adjusted by adding a few other seeds/corns/shavings of one's favorite spices (ie, fennel, cardamom, sumac, marjoram, a dash of nutmeg, whatever). Definitely a go-to reduced-calorie spread, as a base for a good salad dressing, or a rub (for meats). Yum.
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Old 10-21-23, 07:33 AM
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Calorie counting is a useful tool when desiring to drop weight. I do not think however that it should be viewed as the only tool or even the best tool. All foods do not affect the body the same way, so not all calories are equal in either how they are processed or stored. The flaw of calorie counting is that it causes some to make the assumption that the number of calories is all that matters regardless of nutritional value or bodily processes.
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Old 10-21-23, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Calorie counting is a useful tool when desiring to drop weight. I do not think however that it should be viewed as the only tool or even the best tool. All foods do not affect the body the same way, so not all calories are equal in either how they are processed or stored. The flaw of calorie counting is that it causes some to make the assumption that the number of calories is all that matters regardless of nutritional value or bodily processes.
It is also quite useful to track your macro nutrient balance, not just calories.
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Old 10-21-23, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It is also quite useful to track your macro nutrient balance, not just calories.
I would agree. It's not something I do but I am interested. I go to extremes to eat a varied number of natural foods striving for a well-balanced diet, but I don't test. What is the preferred method? Blood test?
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Old 10-21-23, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
I would agree. It's not something I do but I am interested. I go to extremes to eat a varied number of natural foods striving for a well-balanced diet, but I don't test. What is the preferred method? Blood test?
I just meant that in counting calories with an App you also automatically get a breakdown of your macros. It's obviously only as accurate as your input data, but if you log everything you eat for a few weeks it gives you a good idea of your carb/ fat/protein balance. For example I noticed that my protein intake was relatively low. What the correct macro balance should actually be is highly contentious, but at least I have a known starting point.

I've just signed up for the ZOE nutritional programme, which includes a bunch of gut microbe tests and blood glucose monitoring. It will be interesting to see how that goes.
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Old 10-21-23, 11:56 AM
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The gut microbe tests are very interesting to me as well. I've researched the topic quite a bit and there are amazing claims about its importance. What we eat effects it and it in return influences what foods we crave. It's amazing what researchers say about the microbiome's importance to overall health..

Last edited by RH Clark; 10-21-23 at 11:58 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 10-21-23, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
What the correct macro balance should actually be is highly contentious

Macronutrient balance shouldn't be a contentious topic, because there is no one size fits all magic number for every person out there. Macronutrient balance is something that is highly variable and depends on an individual and their lifestyle, genetics and other things....I said this before and I will say this again that I eat intuitively. Some days I eat more protein some days less, some days I eat more carbs some days less, some days I eat more fat some days less and it all seems to balance itself perfectly in the long run. I listen to my body and don't follow any apps. The biggest problem with some people is that they want everything so rigid and so structured that it goes against human biology and how we evolved for the past 100 000 years....Just look at human evolutionary history from the last few thousand years and it's very obvious that we as human race can survive and thrive on a very wide range of foods and macronutrient amounts...It's pretty obvious that some people do very well on high carb diets, while others do very well on low carb diets, while others seem to do fine on extreme diets such as keto... Do you really believe that we as humans absolutely need to eat the same amount of protein, carbs and fats each and every day for 365 days per year or else we will all die ??. I don't think so....Nutrition is very simple, just listen to your body, as long as you're healthy, as long as you're maintaining healthy weight, as long as you have energy to perform whatever it is you're doing, then that's all that matters. The actual numbers are irrelevant and unimportant.
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Old 10-21-23, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Macronutrient balance shouldn't be a contentious topic, because there is no one size fits all magic number for every person out there.
Which is exactly why any general recommended balance is highly contentious.
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Old 10-21-23, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
The gut microbe tests are very interesting to me as well. I've researched the topic quite a bit and there are amazing claims about its importance. What we eat effects it and it in return influences what foods we crave. It's amazing what researchers say about the microbiome's importance to overall health..
Yes, the science appears to be moving quite fast in this area. Iín due to start my ZOE testing in a few weeks.
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Old 10-21-23, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
.Nutrition is very simple, just listen to your body, as long as you're healthy, as long as you're maintaining healthy weight, as long as you have energy to perform whatever it is you're doing, then that's all that matters. The actual numbers are irrelevant and unimportant.
For most people it isnít that simple.
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Old 10-22-23, 10:47 AM
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I do not think calorie counting works in the long run and is sustainable. What I mean by that is using calorie counting to compare a snickers bar to some other food.

I think a diet program starts by limiting ones shopping to the meat and produce sections and forbidden from entering the middle aisles or buying anything at checkout. Fast food is forbidden and anything that is packaged and prepared is forbidden. Beer and pizza are expressly forbidden.

Ya know, it does not get much better than going on a fast group ride and stopping with your buddies for beer and pizza. We earned it. And is it not part of the Mediterranean diet and don't those guys live longer? Here is the rub. Eating is very social and certain foods are even more enjoyable when consumed as a group with a common goal. I would have to order a salad and a couple of hard boiled eggs, pita bread and drink water. Party pooper and social outcast. I guess I could calculate the calories in eggs, salad and pita and come up with a caloric content and figure out how much pizza and beer I could have - not much and nutrient deficient.

I think caloric planning works. What is my muscle mass and fat mass. Based upon lean body mass, determine the number of calories to sustain the lean body mass when sedentary. Figure out how active and at what level of activity I am and determine the amount of protein I need per day to maintain and or build muscle mass. Next add in the number of calories per day required to perform the cycling, walking, gym or other activities that I do. Then determine a mix of protein, carbohydrates and good fat. Here it gets a little tricky since I generate excess ATP on the bike during cycling but I also eat on the bike at some rate of caloric intake. So I add more calories to my daily amount and eat enough on the bike to stay in balance. I workout at the gym and do a lot of HIIT. This does a lot of muscle and blood damage. And my goal is to increase muscle mass and increase hematocrit. These activities require more protein and certain foods that contain nutrients that support increasing hematocrit. Plus drink a lot of water.

With my new diet, I eat a lot (3 meals and 4 snacks) and in 5 weeks my muscle mass went up , fat down and hematocrit went up and body weight went down 2 pounds. In fact, I increased my caloric intake per day versus reduced it.

My take on reducing calories below ones metabolic rate to lose weight results in less body weight in the short term but reduced muscle mass and some impact on blood. When my hematocrit increased it was like someone strapped a new set of legs on me. Better blood does wonders for ones aerobic capacity and recovery and general health.

Not to get too evangelical about the new diet and plan, I will see over time if it is sustainable or I wander back in the middle section of the supermarket for a bag of chocolate chip cookies or order a tiramisu (750 calories) as a desert. And let's not forget my favorite dark chocolate truffles and organic crackers with fancy cheese and a glass of red wine. Let's through in some crusty bread at the restaurant where I can eat the entire bread basket and of course pizza and beer.

Weight management and eating for performance takes a lot of discipline and some social outcasting. Our society seems to be set up to make us fat. So it goes.

Last edited by Hermes; 10-24-23 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 10-22-23, 12:45 PM
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100 calories from a bagel is not the same as 100 calories from vegetables, nor is 100 calories from carbs as compared to 100 grams from fat. There is also the damage done to the microbiome with ultra processed food that is edible but does not support healthy gut bacteria. These food products have little or no fiber and in its place are added a wide range of chemical additives and salt and sugar.

Even wheat bread is no longer healthy with all wheat being heavily treated with glyphosates weeks prior to harvest to reduce costs while ignoring that herbicides in food damages the gut microbiome. Damage to the gut also damages the brain with the loss of key neurotransmitters that are produced in the gut. The tons of glyphosates applied to food crops parallels the increase in ADHD and autism in children over the past 20 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...of-early-death

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...al-study-shows
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Old 10-22-23, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Calsun

Even wheat bread is no longer healthy
It all depends what type of ingredients are in that particular loaf of bread...It doesn't even have to be whole grain bread, even white bread can be healthy if it's made with basic ingredients such as flour, yeast or sourdough, water, salt and olive oil, the less ingredients the better....Bread contains resistant starch which is very beneficial for gut bacteria. Not to mention that freshly baked bread is delicious and also contains easily digestible carbs which are great for physically active people. I've been eating bread my whole life and I am not about to give it up anytime soon.
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Old 10-22-23, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
It all depends what type of ingredients are in that particular loaf of bread...It doesn't even have to be whole grain bread, even white bread can be healthy if it's made with basic ingredients such as flour, yeast or sourdough, water, salt and olive oil, the less ingredients the better....Bread contains resistant starch which is very beneficial for gut bacteria. Not to mention that freshly baked bread is delicious and also contains easily digestible carbs which are great for physically active people. I've been eating bread my whole life and I am not about to give it up anytime soon.
Not quite that simple. Flour may seem simple and traditionally healthy, but if you examine closely what pesticides and herbicides it was treated with and how much it was genetically engineered, you find that even such a simple thing may be cause for concern. I've cut all breads out of my diet for nearly 6 years. You will miss it at first, but it becomes revealing how these type foods are actually physically addictive. Once you break the addiction, you don't miss it. At least that has been my experience.

As for the resistant starch, I find potatoes that have been refrigerated a better source. You can also increase the resistant starch and lower the glycemic index of your regular bread by freezing it, and then toasting it.
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Old 10-22-23, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
Not quite that simple. Flour may seem simple and traditionally healthy, but if you examine closely what pesticides and herbicides it was treated with and how much it was genetically engineered, you find that even such a simple thing may be cause for concern. I've cut all breads out of my diet for nearly 6 years. You will miss it at first, but it becomes revealing how these type foods are actually physically addictive. Once you break the addiction, you don't miss it. At least that has been my experience.

As for the resistant starch, I find potatoes that have been refrigerated a better source. You can also increase the resistant starch and lower the glycemic index of your regular bread by freezing it, and then toasting it.
Pesticides and genetically engineered foods are everywhere today and you eat them everyday...All of the fruits and vegetables and grains which humans eat today are a product of selective breeding, experimenting, inter-breeding and genetical engineering and science... I see no reason to cut bread out of my diet because I like it and never had problems eating it.
I know there are other forms of resistant starch such as white rice and beans which I also eat.
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Old 10-23-23, 04:29 AM
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What has been done to wheat in the last 70 years is far beyond any selective breeding or cross pollination, but don't research it if you want to keep eating it. I do understand about not being able to avoid all harm, but neither does that mean we shouldn't avoid what we can. I avoid bread because it has nearly zero nutritional value, and what I consider a fairly significant possibility of harm. I am in no way saying all grain or carbs are bad. What I am saying is that it is indefensible what has been allowed into our food supply in the name of profit.
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