BaadDawg

dragracer....Since unfortunately you took my post the wrong way, excuse me for caring about your health.

Don't worry about being offended again.

2legit

just joined this forum so that I could reply to all these posts about lowering cholesterol.
To dragracer:
I'm sure you are like most of us that view our health by sayin "If I feel right and look right, therefore I must be healthy", until something changes that stops us and scares us. Then we scramble from dr. to dr. to find answers and realize that they don't really have any (except drugs) and of course all this at a very high cost$$.
Yet the answer is quite simple. Look at what you can start doing today that will impact and reverse your health problems. If you think your only health issue is cholesterol (as grave as that may be) as well as your hemmorhage that you mentioned..these are all warning signals!!
I really believe that the key to optimal health is Prevention yet not many health care professionals are taught what to do. Your body is comprised of many systems(digestive,circulatory,nervous,lymphatic,etc.) and a problem occurs when one of these systems is backed up and fails to work properly. This creates a domino effect where over time as one system becomes unable to function properly another will take over until that one weakens, and so on.
If you are interested in a program to get your health back, send me your email address and get educated. Then make an informed choice as to your next step.
Just know that by not taking any action whatsoever, in time your health will deteriorate.
Good Luck and My thoughts are with you!

dfw

Mine is 140 and I'm definitely a carnivore. I eat lots of red meat, beef, pork, and ham. I eat cheese every single day of many different varieties. My wife eats basically the same as I do and hers was 270 before she started Lipitor. A lot of it has to do with your genetic makeup.

2legit

Unbelievable!
Yes, there is some belief about genetic makeup playing a role BUT the more scientists learn about genetics as it relates to your health, the more it becomes clear that it's not genetics but DIET related!!
As I said in my previous post, your body has the ability to adjust to your horrible eating habits, until one day when it will either give you a subtle warning or a fatal one!
With the knowledge we have today about diet as it relates to our health, there is no excuse to abuse the only house you will ever live in...your body!
Myself, I rather not play Russian Roulette with my life!

dfw

My basic rule is, all things in moderation, including moderaton. I love a good ribeye or a perfectly prepared rib roast, but I don't eat these things very often. What's the point of living to 100 if you don't stop to smell the roses along the way? People kill themselves from eating those types of things every day and not exercising. Almost 70% of my calories are carbs, and of those I try to stay away from heavily processed sugars and flour. I get a good portion of my protein from cheese, so I really don't eat that much meat. However, when I do eat meat, I want it to taste good and be well prepared.

Roody

Cha-ching!!!! I think this newbie is selling snake oil. Notice how he (she) makes all kinds of great promises but she won't post the miraculous answers on a public forum? Instead, you have to send her your e-mail. Aha! I bet if you give her your e-mail, you'll get all kinds of spam. And I bet she'll want your credit card number too.

2legit -- I don't think you are legit at all. If you are, I challenge you to post your miracle cures right here on this forum, along with references to peer reviewed scientific journal articles. If you can't do that you are nothing but a con artist!

2legit

Well Roody, I think you need to get a life! You are way too defensive!! or did I hit a nerve???

I am NOT selling anything.
I am a Personal Health Coach and a medical professional. I don't think I need to justify anything to you,especially on this forum. Anyways, you seem to be a very closed minded type of person.
My program consits of 5 steps and has no "miracle cures" as you seem to think.
Step 1 Hydration Step 2 Exercise, such as walk Step 3 Cleanse (which by the way I highly recommend for you-lol) Step 4 Nourish and Step 5 Target.
The studies that support this program are a culmination of many years of research done at Harvard, Mayo Clinic,The American Institute for Cancer Research,The World Cancer Research Fund,The Institute of Medicine based in Washington,D.C., University of Colorado...etc.etc.
In conclusion, there are no magic bullets when it comes to health and wellness...but increasing water intake, walking daily and healthier lifestyle choices and food choices will ultimately benefit you!

Blessings Again and please consider my recommendation to you!
2legit

Roody

That's a bunch of gobbledygook. You're telling people on a cycling forum that we need to walk daily? And drink more water? How amusing! What is cleansing and how can you tell that I need it? How much does it cost to get the fiber + vitamins + special ingredients you mentioned in another post? What are the special ingredients? Why haven't you cited any references, just rattled off a list of institutions? Can you meet my challenge? Or are you just going to insult me more? Have you read the forum guidelines? I think you should.

Finally, what kind of bike do you ride? What is a derailleur? What is the largest manufacturer of bicycle components? What are three components? What is a century? What is a chamois? These are simple questions that most newbies on this forum could answer, at least some of them. Can you answer any? How much time will you need to find someone to help you answer?

Juha

Please keep the discussion to the topic. Read the Forum Guidelines if in doubt. Thank you.

--J, a Forum Mod

Roody

I do apologize to juha and especially to dragracer. I got carried away. I should have started a new thread to argue with another member about an almost unrelated topic.

Juha

My request was not aimed solely or specifically to you, Roody. My bad, considering I posted the request directly after your post. I meant everyone participating in this thread lately should follow the forum guidelines.

Sorry for the bad wording, and thanks for getting my drift .

--J, a Forum Mod

Roody

Not a prob. I'm glad we have a mod up this late at night. But I guess it's already tomorrow where you are!

berts

one's state of health, as with most other biological phenomenon, is the product of interactions between genetic make-up and environment. Genetic material can not be changed (at least for the time being), thus the only point which is under our control more or less is environment including food intake, living conditions, climatic conditions, stress situations, etc., etc. While food is the most popular culprit for health seeking individuals, other environmental conditions are sometimes not less important to one's health. This is not so much about cholesterol levels as measured in blood tests but about a state of health, which as we were witness to, is not necessarily related to cholesterol and in fact the main risk of high ldl is heart failure which is also highly related to stress and other env. conditions excluding food. The bottom line is that one should strive to live a healthy life including food intake (in our cases the ones with high cholesterol) reduce saturated fat intake, exercise, create a non-stressful and pleasant living style.

DannoXYZ 

Let's take a look at genetics as potential. It may define some upper limit on things. Such as maximum performance. MOST of us and I mean MOST of us can excel in this sport to within 90-98% of Lance. How many of us are at that level? Or even at 75% of our potential. It all has to do with life choices, daily-practices and the results are fitting.

Same thing with this cholestrol BS. Nothing's wrong with a high overall cholesterol count, it's the balance between HDL and LDL that you really should be concerned with. One guy with gruesome eating habits may be at 200 with 75% LDL and he'll have a heart-attack and die within a couple years. Another guy with the same 200 reading may have 75% HDL and he'll be perfect fine. Sure they're may be a genetic component to his cholestrol reading, but I bet the majority of it is based upon your eating and exercise habits.

BTW - anyone ever see the cholestrol readings on those 20,000 people Japan has over 100 years? They're across the board! Some are in the 125 range, others are 225! THe one thing they have in common, is that the have low LDL readings and are high in HDLs. Fish-based diet with omega-3 fatty acids do wonders!

The bottom line is, LDL levels have a much more direct relationship with heart-disease risks than overall cholestrol readings. If your doctor didn't tell you this, you need to find another one! As been mentioned, doctors clean up the mess afterwards, and sometimes they can't do anything about it. Prevention isn't part of their training. Actually, it's the system's fault, if fewer people got sick, hospitals and doctors wouldn't make any money..

BaadDawg

Well put Danno. The overall cholersterol number is pretty much meaningless. It is the LDL, HDL, tryglycerides, and ratio that matter.

Unfortunately most people with high total cholesterol have high LDL and normal to low HDL which puts them at much greater risk for CHD (heart disease).

Being thin, eating well, regular exercise, reduction of stress. etc. are all good things to do and things most people should do. Even with all those lifestyle changes many will still suffer from dangerous levels of LDL cholesterol. For them the current consensus is that the class of drugs known as statins are a breakthrough in modern medicine and are in fact "under prescribed".

And no I am not some evil person working for a big bad profit obsessed drug company.

With the information available online these days you can read the same information your doctor does (in some cases well before your MD gets around to reading it). No excuse really for being medically iliterate these days except being intimidated by medical terminology, poor googling skills, or laziness.

dfw

It depends on what the overall number is. If your overall number is less than 150, your chances of developing problems due to cholesterol are pretty much nill.

DannoXYZ 

It really depends on the LDL number. If you've got the following:

75 LDL
75 HDL
-----------
150 total cholestrol you should be fine. Same with this guy:

75 LDL
150 HDL
-----------
225 total cholestrol has the same heart-disease risk as the previous guy

However this guy:

150 LDL
75 HDL
-----------
225 total cholestrol will certainly die in the next couple of years.

high total cholesterol is meaningless unless you break it down and know what the various components means. It's like computers and CPU, more MHZ is always faster right?

Bolo Grubb

I am still stuck at 180.5, my goal is 170-175 range. I was 215 at one point

but the good news my cholesterol is lower then it has ever been.

Date of my last blood test 04/14/2005
Total Cholesterol 134
LDL 75
HDL 45
Ratio Total/HDL 2.98
Triglycerides 87
Blood sugar 83


Previous blood test 1/14/2004
Total Cholesterol 181
LDL 121
HDL 34
Ratio Total/HDL 5.32


Dropping 35 pounds in the time between these 2 test and getting into better shape through cycling do have their benifits.

Note: I have been on Lipitor 20mg a day for the last 4 years. Before Lipitor my number were very bad. My doctor has stated that he may reduce the dose I take, but it is unlikely that I will ever be able to keep my numbers were they should be without medical assistance.

dfw

The average Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is around 4.5 (lower is better), and below 5 is considered normal. The last example you provided has a ratio of 3 which is pretty good. That person would have a low risk factor.

The LDL/HDL ratio is a better figure to use, but LDL testing is more expensive and you don't always get those numbers depending on what your insurance company pays for. A ratio of less than 3.5 is considered normal.

But you can't really go strictly by ratios either, because HDL numbers are good if they are between 40 and 60, but over 60 is considered high.

AnthonyG

Can anyone provide some references for any of these idea's?

No scientific evidence exists that shows that cholesterol, hdl or ldl is in anyway harmful for human health. It's whats called a marker. Cholesterol is part of your bodies self repair mechanism so if your in a less than perfect health you may have elevated levels. It's like going to the doctor. Would you people say that doctors cause disease because there accociated with diseased patients?

No?

Well that's called association, or statistical correlation or a marker of disease. If you want to find sick people then go sit in a doctors waiting room. Same thing with cholesterol.

So here's a reference, https://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

Regards, Anthony

DannoXYZ 

Just because you may not be aware of any studies, or you do not want to accept studies that does not support your viewpoint, does not mean they do not exist. Check these out:

Vaccination News - Raising HDL levels may be as important as lowering LDL

Cadwell E.: 12-year experience with arrest and reversal therapy for coronary heart disease (an overdue requiem for palliative cardiology). American Journal of Cardiology 1999; 84(3):339-341. Author presents epidemiologic and evidence-based research to support the hypothesis that when serum cholesterol levels are maintained <150 mg/dL, coronary artery disease is practically nonexistent.

Castelli W.: Lipids, risk factors and ischemic heart disease. Atherosclerosis 1996; 124 Supplement S1-S9. Dr Castelli reviews the data from the Framingham Heart Study that demonstrates the role of lipids and lipoproteins in relation to coronary heart disease risk.

Kris-Etherton P, Burns JH, Eds.: Cardiovascular nutrition: strategies and tools for disease management. American Dietetic Association, 1998.

Holt, S. The Natural Way to a Healthy Heart: Lessons from Alternative and Conventional Medicine. New York, NY: M Evans and Company, Inc., 1999.

Rigotti A, Krieger M. Getting a handle on "good" cholesterol with the high density liproprotein receptor. New England Journal of Medicine 1999; 341:2011-2013. This review discusses a recently identified receptor for HDL. The receptor called scavenger receptor, class B, type I (SR-BI) is an important receptor for the selective uptake of HDL cholesterol.

https://www.nejm.org <-- sign up for free account and search for "cholesterol", more than several dozen studies on it

Stampfer MJ, Krauss RM, Ma J, Blance PJ, Holl LG, Sacks FM, Hennekens CH. A prospective study of triglyceride level, low-density lipoprotein particle diameter, and risk of myocardial infarction. JAMA 1996;276(11):882-888. Research findings indicate that nonfasting triglyceride levels appear to be a strong and independent predictor of future risk of a heart attack, particularly when the total cholesterol level is also elevated. The study suggests that high plasma triglyceride levels may serve to identify individuals at high risk in whom more vigorous risk reduction interventions could be initiated.

https://jama.ama-assn.org <-- another good source of studies

Steinberg D, Gotto A. Preventing coronary artery disease by lowering levels – fifty years from bench to bedside. JAMA 1999;282(21):2043-2050. Authors present an excellent comprehensive review of the atherosclerosis research over the last fifty years relating lipid disorders and coronary heart disease. The evidence to date supports the current strategy of aggressive management of elevated lipid levels to reduce coronary artery disease morbidity and mortality.

There maybe some conspiracy theory in regards to the drug companies in cohoots with the medical establishment in pushing cholesterol-reducing drugs. Numerous studies exists which do not show a reduced risk of heart-disease with lower total-cholesterol levels, and the ads for Lipitor and others have a little fine-print disclaimer saying that exact thing. The studies do show that exercise+dietary changes has a much better chance of lowering LDL and increasing HDL and reducing risks than just diet alone. Both of which are better than taking drugs only.

AnthonyG

I'm not denying that studied exist that show an association between elevated cholesterol levels and CHD but what is missing is cause and effect.

Here's a quote from your reference,

"There's ample epidemiologic evidence that HDL cholesterol is very predictive of cardiovascular events," said Maj. Richard A. Krasuski, MD, the study's lead author and director of cardiovascular research at Uniformed Services University. "This study suggests that it could be possible that aiming to raise the HDL may be as good or maybe even better than trying to lower the LDL."

Key words here are "Predictive" and "Possible" .

I will refer back to my example regarding doctors being associated with sick people.

Cause and effect please.

Regards, Anthony

BaadDawg

Anthony a good analogy to your point of view (a few studies don't prove anything) woiuld be the tabacco industry and the overwhelming proof that smoking caused cancer yet there were a million and one naysayers saying that the studies didn't prove anything. We all know now for a fact the dangers of smoking (yet large numbers still continue to smoke).

I guess in 30 years time we will know if the statin induced cholesterol lowerers did better than "the rest of the pack" since by that time we will all mostly be dead and there will be concrete evidence to point to who was right.

dragracer

If that is a "fact"........I have about an hour to live.

dfw

High cholesterol numbers just means statistically you're more likely to develop heart disease. I don't think I implied anything to the contrary.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying everyone should ignore their cholesterol numbers?