What this guy (David Roche) did is absolutely amazing and counterintuitive. He's not an ultramarathoner, yet he demolished the record for running the Leadville 100 race on 18 Aug 2024. He touches on so many aspects we've all talked about WRT training. They even refer to cycling and the TdF during this interview.

It' a very long interview, so you may want to cut it up and view it in sections, but it's very interesting and much of it is out-of-the-box thinking.

BTW, he employed a very high amount of speed training to prepare for this race.

Haven't watched this long video, but I have looked into Roche's success. I have also found that riding really hard greatly improved my long distance times. Lots of Z4 time with some Z5, i.e. riding 500'-1000' hills as hard as I could was great prep. The other big thing was lots of carbs, i.e. figuring out how to get max carbs across the stomach wall and into my blood stream. Of course I've never been a really fast rider, so if you're fast, much longer hills. You want to be able to ride the last 1000' of a 3000' climb in HR Z4, finishing in HR Z5 - say, at over 100 miles into your ride. Your power is going to drop off at altitude, but your effort still has to be high. That was in my late 50s. Older, I couldn't do that anymore.

Yeah, I've found that doing intervals and threshold training increases my performance at zone 2 -- caveat -- as long as you don't over do it, which I know a lot about.

First takeaway for me from the first 15 min... before I get caught up in how he trained for this event.

This guy had 18 years of what he calls "base training" before he tried this approach.

Right-O! The process of increasing endurance does seem to take a lot of time, years. It's been noticed that older riders have more endurance (up to a point), and I think that's just time-in-grade. Some body modifications are slower than others.

I didn't figure this out. It just happened to me and I noticed that I was getting better results than seemed sensible. I knew it wasn't talent, so it had to be training. I have (had) a competitive streak plus I just enjoy being at my limit, which involved finding said limits. I'll never forget the pain level on my first 300k, 9000' of steep stuff. Some rando planners (I forget the words of course) love to put in some 18-24% stuff about 3/4 through the ride. No walking or paperboy, this is a timed ride!

Of course he has a massive athletic base. You don't win the Leadville 100 as a newbie, let alone smashing the record that stood for nearly 20-years. And then go to win another 100-mile race about 7-10 weeks later nearly breaking that record.

David Roche has been known in the running/cycling community for years, mostly as a coach, but he was looked at as someone that had unconventional training techniques. This was a huge accomplishment, but most people never heard of it, because ultramarathons are not popular in the wider population. But all the training techniques he talks about we've all heard and discussed here.

Here's a 9-minute video that kind of sums up who David Roche is

I only brought that up for perspective (selfish perspective). Many times, I go into watching these training plans thinking that it's the new/best greatest thing... but I have to keep telling myself these plans are for seasoned professionals with genetic gifts in many cases.

Yeah, it is important that we normies not try and copy, to a tee, what the professionals do. For example, I don't ever expect to incorporate bicarbonate use in my training (0:44:47). However, there are plenty of helpful things I do incorporate, including heat training, which he talked about in the OP video (1:24:55).

And now I don't feel so bad that I've avoided the cold therapy exposure training (1:31:22)




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Can someone give us a TL;DR on that video?

When anyone says something is a revolution in endurance training, that immediately sets off my BS detector.

I'm the only one that said, "A Revolution in Training" and I added a question mark at the end, so it's not a statement of fact by me nor anyone else.

As far as a summary, the guy not only won the Leadville 100, but also demolished the 20-year old record by ~16-minutes by researching and putting into practice, by trial and error, all the latest science on physical performance, so a lot of topics were covered. The only other advice I can give you, if you're interested, is to look in the "Notes" section of the video in the OP and pick from various topics and click on the time and it'll take you directly to that section.



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I really think this guy is onto something. Just one of his training techniques is Heat Training, but many other things. He'll be racing in the Western States Endurance Run in just over 6-weeks

In the video below he not only just won the Quad Rock 50-mile race, he set another course record.

work4bike If you think they have a great "new" idea, then why don't you tell us about it. And discuss it. Or at least give us a synopsis so we even know what to look for in the video.

I'm really loathe to spend time watching videos and trying to pick out what little nugget of information you think may be the spectacular most important piece of training advice ever. You seem to regularly find these things. However to me, they seem to be mostly the same stuff that isn't all that new.

For the TL;DW, I asked ChatGPT to summarize the podcast. Here's its reply:

In the Rich Roll Podcast episode titled "Optimize Your Training: The Surprising SCIENCE of Endurance," Rich Roll interviews David Roche, an elite ultrarunner and coach known for his unconventional approach to endurance training.Roche shares insights into his training philosophy, which emphasizes scientific precision, mental resilience, and a departure from traditional endurance training norms.

🧠 Key Takeaways

1. Scientific Precision in Training

Roche's approach is grounded in data and meticulous planning. He famously predicted his finish time at the Leadville 100 ultramarathon within 26 seconds, showcasing the effectiveness of his methodical training strategies.

2. Embracing Vulnerability and Mental Strength

Beyond physical training, Roche emphasizes the importance of mental fortitude. He believes that embracing vulnerability and confronting self-doubt are crucial for achieving peak performance.

3. Challenging Conventional Wisdom

Roche advocates for a paradigm shift in endurance training, encouraging athletes to question traditional methods and adopt approaches that prioritize both physical and mental well-being.

I don't tell, because I don't know and that's why I put a ? in the title.

There are things that I think were significant factors, such as his non-traditional speed training for extreme endurance events. His strength training. His High Heat training. And his training of the gut for consuming larger quantities of carbs during the race.

However, all those things doesn't really answer the question of how some guy, in his mid-30's, started breaking (smashing) records that were set by very dedicated ultra-marathoners -- he is not an ultra-marathoner. The video in the OP is long and I also don't have time to sit down for 2-1/2 hours, so I break it up and listen to a portion at a time. But the problem is that there are many questions I want to ask, but are never asked, so for now I'm only full of ????'s.


I do wonder if it has something in his mindset, in addition to his non-traditional training, that factors into his incredible results. He's always, to the point of nausea (for me anyway), yelling to everyone how much he loves them -- I don't even understand Love. Or maybe because he was brave enough to follow his own instincts and build his performance based on working on his personal strengths and weaknesses.

I became aware of this guy, by coincidence, just a couple months before he smashed the Leadville 100 record, because I was following another athlete who hired him as a coach. So I don't know this guy's history, but I'm now keeping an eye on him.






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The guy doesn't seem to really want to tell anything. He just wants to make very long videos with suggestions of how one can be great with mental fortitude. Which we all should know isn't the only thing that got him his good performance. It's a video made to keep you watching more so he can make money by having enough subscribers to his youtube channel.

I don't know... All I know is those results are amazing. Even if his only motivation is for more subscribers, he's done it in a way that resulted in him surpassing very dedicated ultra-marathoners performance at their own sport.

Who else could do that?


I don't see him doing all this for just more subscribers -- what he accomplished requires so much more dedication. That video in the OP isn't even his channel, his personal videos are much shorter and yes, I subscribed once I saw he smashed the Leadville 100 in his first ever 100-mile race; that's like playing in the PGA as a recreational golfer and you decide that your strategy is to just make a few holes-in-one (inspired by Happy Gilmore ) and a bunch of birdies. And the pay off would be much greater, so why don't we see someone doing this?

Furthermore it was after him being involved in a very serious bike accident with a car in April of 2024, the race was in August 2024.


That's one hell of an accomplishment, regardless of motivation.



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I'm not trying to subtract from his accomplishments. But I'm not going to watch a long drawn out video just to gain snippets of what his training method is or his other beliefs. None of anything in that last video even suggested anything remarkable for training that I was able to find. Admittedly, I just clicked multiple times along the timeline and waited to hear if he was going to say anything except for immaterial dribble.

If you want to have a real discussion about something you feel pertinent for training. Then state that in your own words. Give us your own opinion of the facts as you understand them. Don't make us sit through a painfully long video that only gives information that can be summarized in a few brief sentences.

After some more digging into how David Roche trained, it seems to me that he's following the recent train recommendations for fatigue resistance and durability.

One of the key aspects of durability training is performing high intensity workouts while in a fatigued state. In other words, go hard at the end of a longer workout.

It appears that's exactly the type of workout he was doing—speed work at the end of a workout session.

My usual homeward route has a couple of traffic lights in the last bit home. It turns out that if I hit a red light on the first one and have to stop and wait until it turns green, then sprint like hell, I can make the 2nd light while it's still green. Does that count?

I didn't have a theory, I just wanted to be near the front, so that's how I rode, once a week. I'd normally have 45' of Z4, 5-15' Z5, plus ending almost every long ride with a leadout and sprint. No cool-down. Ouch. I developed some serious endurance. Competitive group rides are a gas. (were)

Sure does!

Counts even more if you turn around, do it again maybe ten time before you go take a shower. Even better, have half the between-lights up hill!!

Let's not go overboard. But if I did try that, do the intervals stop when I can no longer hit the 2nd green?