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Help Finding TRIMP information

Old 11-24-08, 06:41 PM
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Help Finding TRIMP information

I'm not training with power yet (don't have enough money for a PowerTap or SRM) but I do use a Garmin 305 with heart rate and cadence. I was hoping to quantify my training loads this winter, both indoors and out, using the TRIMP (training impulse) method but I don't have any info on it. I'm sure I read about it somewhere but I can't remember where. If anyone would be so kind as to give me a book title or a website to go to it would be greatly appreciated.

FWIW, my searches keep directing me to discussions about training loads using power metrics which I don't understand yet.



EDIT: Found this link https://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/training-schedules.html which helped. If anyone has a title of a book referencing TRIMP, I'd still appreciate that.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Patrick

Last edited by patrick07; 11-24-08 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 11-24-08, 07:47 PM
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Last year I made a thread* where I tried to compare Bannister's training impulse model with a modern power based model (performance manager). While I still use the training impulse model to some extent it is difficult to determine the various constants in the model for a given sport/athlete.

https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/289060-modeling-training-impulse-limitations-performance-manager.html

If you have a 5 zone HRM it is easy to calculate each workouts TRIMP. However, due to the aforementioned difficulties in fitting Bannister's model, I suggest you just use the obtained TRIMP scores in place of TSS and use the exponentially weighted moving average system to model the training dose-response, as done by the power based model (CTL, ATL, TSB).

*Ensure you read the whole thread as corrections were made in later posts.

Last edited by Enthalpic; 11-24-08 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 11-24-08, 08:31 PM
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Enthalpic, I'm glad you responded. I did read that thread but I'm still a bit fuzzy on most of the terminology you used. I'm still very new to training, training systems, and sports physiology. Most of the performance gains I've made have been through trial and error and very little planning. I was hoping to focus my training this winter to improve my personal bests on all of my time trial routes (18 mile, 40 mile, and 60 mile distances).

My understanding is so limited in this field. Can you give me the basic explaination of exponentially weighted moving average and how it applies in this case? I'm not even really sure what it means. Also, what do CTL, ATL, and TSB stand for?

I realize its probably a lot like talking to a backward child but I appreciate your time on this.

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Old 11-24-08, 08:44 PM
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1) Chronic training load, or CTL, provides a measure of how much an athlete has been training (taking into consideration both volume and intensity) historically, or chronically. It is calculated as an exponentially-weighted moving average of daily TSS (or TRIMP, etc.) values, with the default time constant set to 42 d. CTL can therefore be viewed as analogous to the positive effect of training on performance in the impulse-response model, i.e., the first integral term in Eq. 1, with the caveat that CTL is a relative indicator of changes in performance ability due to changes in fitness, not an absolute predictor (since the gain factor, ka (or k1), has been eliminated).

2) Acute training load, or ATL, provides a measure of how much an athlete has been training (again, taking into consideration both volume and intensity) recently, or acutely. It is calculated as an exponentially-weighted moving average of daily TSS (or TRIMP, etc.) values, with the default time constant set to 7 d. ATL can therefore be viewed as analogous to the negative effect of training on performance in the impulse-response model, i.e., the second integral term in Eq. 1, with the caveat that ATL is a relative indicator of changes in performance ability due to fatigue, not an absolute predictor (since the gain factor, kf (or k2), has been eliminated).

3) Training stress balance, or TSB, is, as the name suggests, the difference between CTL and ATL, i.e., TSB = CTL – ATL. TSB provides a measure of how much an athlete has been training recently, or acutely, compared to how much they have been training historically, or chronically. While it is tempting to consider TSB as analogous to the output of the impulse-response model, i.e., as a predictor of actual performance ability, the elimination of the gain factors ka and kf (or k1 and k2) means that it is really better viewed as an indicator of how fully-adapted an individual is to their recent training load, i.e., how “fresh” they are likely to be.

https://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/...gerscience.asp

Part 3 addresses the limitation of the performance manager that inspired my thread. The performance manager does not attempt to predict performance whereas the TRIMP system did.

The equations for exponentially weighted moving averages and the required smoothing factors are in my thread.

Last edited by Enthalpic; 11-24-08 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 11-24-08, 09:02 PM
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Awesome! I was just writing some of this down but I have one more question for now. Is the point of all of this to have a positive TSB score when tapering for an event or on event day?
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Old 11-24-08, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by patrick07
Awesome! I was just writing some of this down but I have one more question for now. Is the point of all of this to have a positive TSB score when tapering for an event or on event day?
Planning a taper/peak is one of the uses. It can also be used to avoid illness by modeling fatigue.
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Old 11-24-08, 09:51 PM
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I'll have to do some more reading on the subject but I want to thank you for taking your time on this. I can see the basic interchangeability now between TSS and TRIMP for my purposes. Thanks again for your help.

Sincerely,
Patrick
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