Bekologist

moving out of a bike lane at intersections should be given due consideration...and promptly ignored as unecessary if traffic conditions do not merit it.

seriously, H. Head, you are coming off a bit paranoid about your riding with traffic on a road like this. WITHOUT the lane stripes indicating the bike lane/buffer, a bicyclist- even a dogmatic VCist - would almost positively be further right in the road, in a less centered road position, giving less visibility to the bicyclist and decreased sight lines.

the bike lane stripe improves this road, cognifies bicyclists as road users, and heightens awareness from drivers regarding bikes on the road.

i'm sorry, but are you trying to tell me you move from a safe and visible road position like this bike lane into traffic lanes in the face of oncoming traffic, in addition to playing your 'powerweave' for cars approaching from behind???? what an inconsistent line you weave on your bicycle, head. you're constructuing a conflict from this vehicle??


your pontificating anti-facilities spiel is really over the top, Head. and you're just a part timer on your bicycle.

At junctions and their approaches, moving out of a bike lane is not mandatory and only needs to be given due consideration.

sbhikes

Why? What is the benefit to avoiding that huge amount of pavement on the other side of the line? And wouldn't that only create confusion for the motorist?

Machka 

The huge amount of pavement on the other side of the line is where the beer bottle glass is located. I'd rather not ride through it.

Bekologist

umm, beer bottle glass?

Quoting myself... " Road and bike lane and buffer were not significantly different in degrees of debris. "

umm, no debris or glass, machka. what if it was as clean as the roadway, as it was for us that day? what if there WASN'T any make believe glass?

Machka 

There is always beer bottle glass on the shoulders of the road. Especially near urban centers, but even way out in the middle of nowhere.

I can't remember the last time I saw a road without it.

Bekologist

whatever. no one flatted that day, the bike lane and buffer were as clean as the travelled road.

you'd ride out of a well accomodated, buffered and clean bikelane because of a overwhelming fear of nonexistant glass? I'm beginning to wonder.....

Machka 

You must live in utopia if there is no beer bottle glass all over your shoulders!!


Where I live ... the beer bottle glass exists.

Bekologist

no, but it was kitsap county, pretty close to utopia.

the entire road was freshly swept & look at how much room was dedicated to bicycle travel. look at the hill in the distance for an accurate perspective - nearly half the pavement for bikes and buffer.

Machka 

As compared with "redneck country" where I live. The boys come into town after several weeks in the oil patch ................. and there will be beer bottle glass EVERYWHERE! <<sigh>>

And that is why I choose to ride on the road whenever possible, whether there is a shoulder available or not. In the middle of the night, when there is very little traffic, I ride right in the middle of the traffic lane.

CB HI

Bek,
If you do not like noisebeam’s good ideas, why don’t you provide us all with that well designed bikelane that keeps cyclist safe through intersections and driveways.

I have asked you to help all of us by providing that design 5 times now. You should either put up or shut up.

sbhikes

A lady just road her bike from San Diego to the east coast of Florida, in the shoulder whenever possible. She did not get a single flat. The fear of glass is highly overrated.

rando

I agree the fear of a potentially debris-filled lane is one for the books for VC-ites. it can now be studied and documented and named. I hereby tentatively call it "cyclist debris phobia". it is one of the reasons there is opposition to bike facilities, this phobia. people in europe don't have it because they are taught to not fear the glass unless it is actually there.

noisebeam

Apparently you haven't ridden much in the greater east valley, especially Mesa. Yikes. The bike lanes are a mess out there. They are much better in Tempe.
It is not just glass, but small parts from cars, dropped from construction vehicles and the ever popular landscaping stone (1/4-1/2" size).

But in Oregon I guess folks don't drink beer and those that do are very responsible with their glassware. Of course I think OR has a bottle bill, AZ does not. That can make a difference and may be part of why Bek sees a different level glass problems, but not much as the $.05 is not worth it any more for most lazy-assed folks.

Al

Bekologist

i think CB's fear of driveways is symptomatic of striped line phobia and doesn't recognize the rules of the road that cars entering superior roadways from drives are required to yield to traffic on the higher traffic road.

wether there's a bike lane or not, a driveway is easily accomodated. and positioning a bike lane to the left of a Right turn only lane, with AASHTO signage indicating "CARS YIELD TO BIKES" in the merge areas, accomodates bike traffic amply, CBHI.

non existant glass, paranoid fears of rural driveways on roads with shoulder buffers, you rabid VC'ists come off exhibiting some serious cycling disorders.

like drivewayiphobia, glassiphobia, and motorist inferiority disorder. not to mention car paranoia.

noisebeam

Which intersections should get RTOLs?
Al

Bekologist

jees, al. this thread is about a rural state highway speed road and an amply provided, clean bike lane, with buffer. how some of you can even be argumentative about this facility is stratospheric in your paranoia and foresterism. can't reccomend good pavement to ride at any cost, if it has a bike lane, eh?

what intersections need RTOs? well, i'd leave it to the engineers, but i guess it depends on traffic volume, eh? some intersections like private driveways need no cessation of a bike lane stripe, some minor intersections should get short cessation of the bike lane stripe, some more major intersections should have longer cessation of a bike lane stripe, and major intersections should get RTO lanes.

I'll leave that up to the traffic engineers, yah? you think a person's private rural driveway needs a RTO lane al ?

however, this thread is about a rural, highway speed road with amply provided, clean bike lane and shoulder.

where does a vehicular cyclist ride on this road? a vehicular cyclist would ride in the bike lane, vehicularily, untill there's a reason to leave the bike lane - like a left turn or a big pile of foresterite in the bike lane.

noisebeam

I don't think rarely occuring single residence private driveways need cessation of bike lanes. In urban/suburban areas such streets should not have a BL at all. In rural areas no need to end BL.
However the intersections shown on that road are not all private non-business driveways - some appear to be side streets, othrers commercial perhaps (with the white sign)

So you agree otherwise that if there is not a RTOL then the stripe should end for all other intersection types - the only exception being along a stretch of road with the very occasional private single residence driveway.

I do not want to leave it up to the engineers to decide if the stripe should end. What may be considered or measured as low on average use, can be very high at some parts of the day - and low anyway is still some right turning vehicles. 1/100 turning vehicles is too many to place my bets on.

Al

Bekologist

al, i don't agree with your unrealistic desires regarding bike lane cessation for all intersections.

i've seen very effective treatments of minor interections with no bike lane cessation or short portions of unstriping. i think a more blanket treatment for bicyclist safety is education that turning traffic yield to bikes on road.

don't the 'universal rules of the road' prevent cars from creating a hazard for other traffic when turning?

Bekologist

How some of you can even be argumentative about this facility is stratospheric in your paranoia and foresterism. can't recomend good pavement to ride at any cost if it's striped for bike travel? white line phobia...

where does a vehicular cyclist ride on this road? a vehicular cyclist would ride vehicularily in the bike lane until there's a reason to leave the bike lane - like a left turn or a big pile of foresterite in the bike lane.

noisebeam

Why is it unrealistic? It is far more realistic than any other guidelines I have ever seen.
What do you mean by effective? Howare you measuring that?

Yes, I've seen those implementations too and such limited cessasion (on the order of 10-30') provides no benefit, other than to allow by law motorists to cut the corner which they do anyway.

Just end the bike lane stripe 200' before all intersections. It's an easy guideline to follow and one that won't get screwed up vs. a complex one requiring study of intersection volumes, guidelines on varied lenght of cessastion with tables for road volume, egress volume, road speeds, and cessation length, then determining patterns of use, accounting for ever changing traffic volumes, accounting for new side streets being added, etc.

I support it not only because it easy to design and implement, but also most effective and supporting cyclist of all skill levels - as even cyclists how have the skill required to ride on roads with bike lanes have the skill to track a straight line if they desire for short 200' stretches.

Al

Bekologist

al, where would you be riding on this road?

I'm betting (despite all your internet complaints) you'd be tooling along, happy as a clam, in the clean, well provided bike lane.

Can a vehicular cyclist ride in this bike lane in a vehicular manner? you betchya.

noisebeam

Sometimes yes, sometimes no

But never in the shoulder area.

Al

rando

I'd be in the bike lane unless there was a reason to get out of it.

Bekologist

more importantly,

Can a vehicular cyclist ride in this bike lane in a vehicular manner? you betchya.

nightc1

I'd ride in that bike lane and keep an eye in my mirror for traffic from the rear, keep looking ahead at driveways and so on... and be prepared to change based on the current situation.

I wouldn't ride to the right of the bike lane. Not for fear of debre but because I'd rather have that lane to escape to if needed.