Mr_Krist

Hi,

I need some help in positively ID'ing this frame. From the lug details it looks to be a Galmozzi disguised as a Fiorelli Coppi with new paint and decals. The repaint is very bad heavy handed job. The hand painted head tube makes the lug work look really bad due the overpaint of the white. It is not the case upon closer inspection. The rear dropsouts are Campagnolo.

There are a also couple of details I haven't seen before. The extra pointed details on the head tube lug are not common to other Galmozzis I have seen. The distinctive Galmozzi slot and hole on the top and bottom of the head tube is there. Also, I have never seen a cage braze on like this before with the threads exposed.

Any info or gues on what year this frame is would be appreciated. Thanks.

juvela

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The horizontal slot cutout in the front of the headlugs is something only seen on Galmozzi and Ideor cycles AFAIK.

Someone has really been at this poor thing. Expect those 1010 ends originally had eyelets.

Wacky w/b mount much later than frameset.

Aaron will no doubt be along momentarily with far more and better information...

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KonAaron Snake 

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm terrible at this...the guys who know what they're talking about are CDM, Otis and slotcar. Italianpower has seen more than I have...he might be able to offer insight.

KonAaron Snake 

Spoke with italianpower...he echos my initial thoughts, but neither of us are sure either.

"Extremely interesting. First thoughts, no. I get it that the lugs are similar but the points are like nothing I have ever seen from him. Would need BB pics and could always ask slotcar. He likes looking at this stuff. I have never seen those lugs even on a Gloria built Galmo."

Otis

Just off the top of my head I would think more Ideor (as Juvela mentioned) than Galmozzi. Although there's Galmozzi styling cues, the lugs do not appear to be thinned at all. They are really clunky, more along the lines of a production frame like Ideor. But who knows, there were a lot of Italian bikes with similar features in the late 50's early 60's.

I would search photos of Ideor for similarties, keeping in mind this frame has been updated. And I guess get that paint off. Might be some signs of head-badge holes under the paint you could measure and compare to the spacing of Galmozzi and Ideor badges.

juvela

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wrt Ideor, have owned four road models, one track and seen a number of others but all have had the same lugset. It is a modified version of the Agrati "AM" set (Nr. 000.8040/E/U) with the horizontal slot cutout added to the head lugs. The Agrati "AM" serie seat lug (Nr. 005.8049) was offered in three configurations: bare, malaguti style and with standard binder ears. Galmozzi and Ideor always employed the malaguti style when using Agrati lugsets. A stock BOCAMA crown was always seen on the road models. It came with a horizontal slot cutout which matched that put into the head lugs.

Mr_Krist

I have looked a quite a few pics of Ideors and have yet to find any with that seat tube lug however there are plenty of pics of Galmozzis and "Gamba" Galmozzis with the exact same design. I have also found the head tube lugs to be different on the Ideors having more shape at the lug where it attaches to the top and down tube.

If you compare the lug on my frame with a typical head tube lug from a Galmozzi you can see they are the same except a notch has been removed at the top and bottom to create the point.

While it may not be a Galmozzi it seems to have more similarities to Galmozzi than Ideor. At least from what I have seen.

Mine has the same solid BB and fork as this Galmozzi...
galmozzi 58cms | Retrospective Cycles

T-Mar

I'd date this frame to circa 1973 based on the stud style water bottle bosses in combination with the lack of lever bosses and top tube cable tunnels. Campagnolo introduced a version of the 1010 dropouts without eyelets in the fall of 1971, then eliminated the spring retention boss and hole in the autumn of 1974, so the dropouts fit the age estimate as well.

KonAaron Snake 

Someone with a more definitive answer should be along...closeups of the BB, fork tangs, brake bridges will be helpful.

The lug filing to me also says not Galmozzi...I've never seen one this rough.

ItalianPower

First, sorry I meant Gamba and not Gloria, my bad.

In regards to the frame, I think we need to see photos of the brake bridge and the possibility of vent holes right above the brake bridge. This has been discussed before but the vent holes are a distinct characteristic of a Galmo and are present on my 50's, 60's, and 70's. Also, Slotcar has described the vent holes here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...-galmozzi.html

Also, how the rear seat stays are finished off is older than the bike might suggest. The water bosses are similar to my 60's and 70's but they do not have the older style seat stay finish which is present on my 50's. Plus, if the fork is original to the bike, the crown suggests newer given the examples I physically have or seen from examples on the web. The rear dropout eyelet is a mystery as well. I think it has been mentioned that Campagnolo didn't release this until the early 70's? If that is true, Galmozzi had already transitioned to the newer style lug like on my green 70's, which I believe to be a 73 and did not finish off the rear seat stay like the one in the original post.

I would have to say this is not a Galmo given the lug work and plethora of inconsistencies. Would like to see the rear brake bridge and possibility of vent holes above the rear brake bridge. I will add photos of my 50's (blue), 60's (orange), and green (70's). All have the same brake bridge and all have the vent holes.

Great discussion but will have to take a step back to Slotcar's knowledge if he should read the post.

Mr_Krist

Here are some more pics. Again, the heavy handed paint job and poor finishing make the details hard to make out. There is no vent hole on the chainstay but there is one on the fork leg. The BB looks like it was possibly damaged and reworked and there is the number "2" embossed. The bridge looks similar to the ones posted above. Still curious as to what it could have been.

Wileyone 

The lugs on the bottom bracket look all wrong for a Galmozzi as does the rear Brake hanger. But it's hard to tell with the paint just gobbed on there. If I were you I would strip the whole Frame so you can see exactly what you have

Paint looks like it was applied with a Shovel..

KonAaron Snake 

It's not a Galmozzi.

Mr_Krist

Here is another look at the BB lug. Any guesses as to what it could be?

ItalianPower

I am not trying to sound like a complete a$$, but I would look for a different frame to build up. That BB is completely destroyed, and I would question the alignment of the rear stays after seeing the pictures. There are so many nice frames on here and other forums that would be a great starting point. I am not sure you will ever know who the builder was, but this we know for sure, this is not a Galmozzi. If you are seriously interested in a nice Galmo, I am positive you can find one at an affordable price given the market right now. Good luck with your search on this frame and future ones.

Mr_Krist

ItalianPower, thanks, that is my plan. I just wanted to gain some additional "frame-spotting" knowledge and be able to tell a potential future owner what the make and year of the frame could be with some amount of certainty.