Sneaky drafters...Argh!
#26
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#28
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Hmm... There seems to be some very differing opinions here concerning drafting. I am not a group rider, and therefore am not used to drafting at all, and it just took me by surprise.Thanks for all the respectful answers and the lovely cat picture. And bra picture. Of course, it's not a big deal, but there was the potential for injury, which was what irked me. I will from now on try to be more aware of people approaching from behind, but for those of you who think I began this "race," I'm not going to sit 6 metres behind a guy for my entire ride. I think it annoyed him as well as me.
And if you feel you wasted your time reading this thread, I would return that minute to you, but that isn't within my powers...yet.
Cheers, guys.
And if you feel you wasted your time reading this thread, I would return that minute to you, but that isn't within my powers...yet.
Cheers, guys.
Consider yourself complimented. Likely the 69yo was a tough, hard nail of a rider who summed you up as a guy to play with. He likely rode behind you in draft because he thought of you as a predictable and safe rider who kept a good pace that suited him.
But go head, blow it all out of proportion. Why not? A few others on here who consider their abilities above good have.
#29
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Agreed. I figure if I'm behind a 60 year old man and I have the choice of riding on his wheel or passing him & staying ahead, I'll go fast enough, long enough that I'm well ahead of him. I won't speed up for 100 meters & the slow down. It just won't happen. Either I've got enough to get out of his sight & stay there, or I'll hang in 100 meters behind & accept that he's faster.
#30
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I hate when people draft me unannounced. Why would you even want to draft someone you don't know? What if they're a terrible rider? Why take the risk?
#31
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Where on earth in Canada are you from where you use MPH for speed and meters for distance? I was under impression the canadian standard was KPH and ft.
#32
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Well, today I was off on a brief 30km ride to get back into the commuting mood for school starting again in September. So, it's a nice day, about 24 celsius, breezy and very pleasant along the river MUP. Halfway through the so-far-uneventful ride, I turn around to go back home along the same path, and I immediately come upon a red light at an intersection. As I'm waiting for the light to change, an old gentleman (I'd say somewhere in his 60s) on a road bike pulls up in front of me. We're both decked out in cycling wear and I'll admit, I did smirk when he moved in front of me (I'm just too used to seeing old guys with expensive kit who go 13mph in my city...).
The light turns green and, to my great surprise, this guy shoots off at a respectable clip. I jump on my bike and follow him down the path. We're going pretty much at the same speed, which is 18-20mph, and I'm maintaining a 6-7 metre following distance behind him. After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres. At that time, I hear a strange buzzing noise from behind me... I glance back to check my cassette, but, just like in those cheap horror movies when a monster jumps out of the closet, I suddenly see the old guy drafting me with only a ~1 metre distance from my back wheel, making no effort to let me know he was there! I'm shocked to be drafted (never happened before, and I don't have any mirrors), and as soon as I recover, the guy sprints past me for 10 metres or so, and then signals a left turn and veers off the MUP.
Look, I respect this guy's fitness, and I hope I'm able to maintain his level of strength when I am that age, but I think chasing me for 8 kilometres, then drafting me for a little ego boost was very childish and quite dangerous. I suppose I'm surprised mainly because the vast majority of cyclists in my city are extremely respectful and courteous.
I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.
At the end of the day, though, I suppose you just have to laugh, sometimes. If anyone has any opinions on my actions or his actions, or similar stories, I'd love to hear them. On the off chance that this guy's a member of BF, I apologize if you took my actions as demeaning or threatening, although I would discourage you from drafting unsuspecting victims in the future. (I'd also like to apologize to all you readers for the mix of metric and imperial units in this post. We do that in Canada.)
The light turns green and, to my great surprise, this guy shoots off at a respectable clip. I jump on my bike and follow him down the path. We're going pretty much at the same speed, which is 18-20mph, and I'm maintaining a 6-7 metre following distance behind him. After a few minutes, he slows down slightly, and since I figure he's getting p-o'ed by some kid following him, I make my move and sprint past him after ringing my bell and I maintain a very fast pace for 100 metres or so. Ok, so now I figure that's all done with, and I continue down the path back at my normal 18-20mph speed for about 8 kilometres. At that time, I hear a strange buzzing noise from behind me... I glance back to check my cassette, but, just like in those cheap horror movies when a monster jumps out of the closet, I suddenly see the old guy drafting me with only a ~1 metre distance from my back wheel, making no effort to let me know he was there! I'm shocked to be drafted (never happened before, and I don't have any mirrors), and as soon as I recover, the guy sprints past me for 10 metres or so, and then signals a left turn and veers off the MUP.
Look, I respect this guy's fitness, and I hope I'm able to maintain his level of strength when I am that age, but I think chasing me for 8 kilometres, then drafting me for a little ego boost was very childish and quite dangerous. I suppose I'm surprised mainly because the vast majority of cyclists in my city are extremely respectful and courteous.
I could see this as some kind of age-related contest, as he felt he needed to prove himself as a faster cyclist to a young whippersnapper like me (I hope that's not rude...), and I can see the possibility that he thought my sprinting past him was some sort of biker-duel, challenge-type thing, which it was not. The fact of the matter is, I simply could not pass him without sprinting due to our comparable speeds.
At the end of the day, though, I suppose you just have to laugh, sometimes. If anyone has any opinions on my actions or his actions, or similar stories, I'd love to hear them. On the off chance that this guy's a member of BF, I apologize if you took my actions as demeaning or threatening, although I would discourage you from drafting unsuspecting victims in the future. (I'd also like to apologize to all you readers for the mix of metric and imperial units in this post. We do that in Canada.)
#33
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#34
SuperGimp
I think starting off the whole post by smirking at his kit really set the tone... Bravo!
Listen, MUP racing 101.
a) Give him The Look
b) Dial it up to 400W
c) Quick! Peel off to the right after you pass him so he can't pass you back!
There's no shame in getting beat by an old dude and then admitting it to the entire 41. no shame.
Listen, MUP racing 101.
a) Give him The Look
b) Dial it up to 400W
c) Quick! Peel off to the right after you pass him so he can't pass you back!
There's no shame in getting beat by an old dude and then admitting it to the entire 41. no shame.
#35
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There was NO potential for injury.
Consider yourself complimented. Likely the 69yo was a tough, hard nail of a rider who summed you up as a guy to play with. He likely rode behind you in draft because he thought of you as a predictable and safe rider who kept a good pace that suited him.
But go head, blow it all out of proportion. Why not? A few others on here who consider their abilities above good have.
Consider yourself complimented. Likely the 69yo was a tough, hard nail of a rider who summed you up as a guy to play with. He likely rode behind you in draft because he thought of you as a predictable and safe rider who kept a good pace that suited him.
But go head, blow it all out of proportion. Why not? A few others on here who consider their abilities above good have.
To umcade, I'm from Toronto, originally, and units of measurement were pretty commonly exchangeable in conversation. Obviously, not on any government signage, though.
#37
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And by the way, the old guy should have thrown both arms up in victory as he sprinted by you during those last 10 meters of the MUP race.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
#38
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WOW, the OP sure does have an active imagination. Smirking at a guy because he assumes he's an old poser; sprinting past the guy because he assumes the guy is po-ed at him; assuming the guy drafted him for 8k on the basis of hearing him coast; assuming the guy's reason for drafting was to boost his ego; assuming the old guy passed him only to prove himself against the OP.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
#39
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#40
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#41
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I bet if he thought the old man was going to try to ra pe him. He would have dialed it up to 400w, and left him in his dust
#42
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WOW, the OP sure does have an active imagination. Smirking at a guy because he assumes he's an old poser; sprinting past the guy because he assumes the guy is po-ed at him; assuming the guy drafted him for 8k on the basis of hearing him coast; assuming the guy's reason for drafting was to boost his ego; assuming the old guy passed him only to prove himself against the OP.
OP -
- Riding 18-20 on a MUP? I hardly ever use them, but it's hard to imagine that being acceptable behavior by any number of yardsticks.
- Riding a MUP with no mirror? Even so, you don't check behind you by turning your head?
- You draft him, then pull in front and slow? That's what I do to encourage someone to draft.
- Did you "announce" yourself to him when you were drafting?
- He's a meter off your wheel? [And, I wonder, possibly exaggerating?] That's not very dangerous, IMO.
BTW, I'm 66. I draft when the opportunity presents itself. I am also slow - 15-16 MPH average, although on a group ride last Sunday I rode 12 miles with the fast riders (19.1 MPH average) which lifted me to 17.4 (a PR) for the whole 51 miles. Lots of drafting.
- I did a 4-day racing clinic this spring plus another teacher-led pace line ride last month, so I felt pretty comfortable (the clinic had us collide, hit and overlap wheels, avoid obstacles w/o deviating from your line, etc.).
- It was very useful. I learned several new techniques (e.g., double pace line), lots of subtleties about numerous areas, and it improved my confidence in many areas.
- Intense Example: 3 weeks ago, riding 3rd in a pace line, the leader teaching the second rider, he's turned to say something, and his wheels barely avoid a hold in the pavement. I had no time to warn. I knew rider 2 was probably going to hit it (she did) but I knew I could swing my tires around the hole (I had practiced this for about an hour). And, as it turned out, I was able to get them around the outstretched arm of the downed rider - boy, she went over the bars and down FAST! It was the first time I've seen anything like that, and I sure had a fantastic view.
#43
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WOW, the OP sure does have an active imagination. Smirking at a guy because he assumes he's an old poser; sprinting past the guy because he assumes the guy is po-ed at him; assuming the guy drafted him for 8k on the basis of hearing him coast; assuming the guy's reason for drafting was to boost his ego; assuming the old guy passed him only to prove himself against the OP.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
#44
Recusant Iconoclast
That's not jumping a wheel. They've were both aware of each other. He took a pull, than it was your turn. I just wanna know of you dialed it up to 400w to make the pass?Have some situational awareness and enjoy the cooperative aspect of riding. Or don't ride amongst the unwashed masses.
#45
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WOW, the OP sure does have an active imagination. Smirking at a guy because he assumes he's an old poser; sprinting past the guy because he assumes the guy is po-ed at him; assuming the guy drafted him for 8k on the basis of hearing him coast; assuming the guy's reason for drafting was to boost his ego; assuming the old guy passed him only to prove himself against the OP.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
I think your account is full of a number of assumptions that directly contradict the OP's account, and you are willing to make these assumptions because you perceive the OP as an ageist. Well the OP may well be that, and if that's the case, I certainly would not defend the ageist elements of his account - on the hard group rides that I do, there are plenty of older guys that put a solid ass-whupping on riders 30 years their junior, BUT there's really no excuse for unannounced/stealth/ninja drafting. Even if I accept every aspect of your account, the other rider should have either gone past the OP or settled in behind him (at a distance, not right on his wheel). There's really no excuse for ninja drafting, regardless of age or circumstance.
#46
RacingBear
WOW, the OP sure does have an active imagination. Smirking at a guy because he assumes he's an old poser; sprinting past the guy because he assumes the guy is po-ed at him; assuming the guy drafted him for 8k on the basis of hearing him coast; assuming the guy's reason for drafting was to boost his ego; assuming the old guy passed him only to prove himself against the OP.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
The reality is that most older cyclists, including me, don't give much of a crap about proving ourselves to anyone. IME people that imagine these things are usually projecting their own weaknesses, insecurities and prejudices on others.
It more likely that an older, experienced cyclist noticed an erratic cyclist ahead him. He determined that the safest bet was to get ahead of him at the light so that he could finish his ride without being concerned about his safety. He might have thought the OP was a bit weird when he smirked at him.
Then he continues on his way, noting the weird smirk guy following at a distance. No problem, he's behind, so his erratic handling is not an issue.
Suddenly, weird smirk guy sprints past him ringing his bell like an ice cream vendor. No problem again as the OP gets 100 meters ahead. Unfortunately, the OP slowed down and the old guy, keeping his steady pace, eventually caught up. The old guy, knowing that he was getting off soon, coasted a bit behind the OP. Suddenly, hearing the freehub pawls from the old guy coasting, the OP looks down, sees the old guy and gets all squirrely on his bike. The old guy seeing this, does what many experienced riders do, He get's the hell out of there before the erratic weird smirk guy does something stupid. He probably forgets about it as soon as he's off the path.
The OP, of course, thinks it's all about him, and rides home to file a report with BF. It seems that the OP was trying to prove himself against an unknowing opponent. The irony is that the OP assumed he was better than the old guy, but the story says otherwise when you remove his assumptions.
#47
Professional Fuss-Budget
I saw a pretty good MUP race the other day. It was between a pair of 7 year old kids.
That was cute. This, on the other hand, is....
That was cute. This, on the other hand, is....
#48
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There was NO potential for injury.
Consider yourself complimented. Likely the 69yo was a tough, hard nail of a rider who summed you up as a guy to play with. He likely rode behind you in draft because he thought of you as a predictable and safe rider who kept a good pace that suited him.
But go head, blow it all out of proportion. Why not? A few others on here who consider their abilities above good have.
Consider yourself complimented. Likely the 69yo was a tough, hard nail of a rider who summed you up as a guy to play with. He likely rode behind you in draft because he thought of you as a predictable and safe rider who kept a good pace that suited him.
But go head, blow it all out of proportion. Why not? A few others on here who consider their abilities above good have.
To add my two cents, how do you not know he's behind you when you go 100 meters and slow down? "Out of proportion" may be a bit understated.
#50
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Bikes: Surly Steamroller FG, Trek 800 SS MTB, Omega Tandem Sport
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It looks like most people are against the OP on this one but I see it like this:
1-This whole thing starts with the oldster cutting in line at a red light. Was he traveling the same direction or opposite as the OP when he turned around? Who knows but cutting is always a foul.
2-Oldster takes off fast at the green as you should if cutting. But, as the OP says, the guy slows down and gets passed. The OP should have passed if the Oldster wasn't riding at his typical pace. No fault on the OP.
3-Oldster drafts the OP for 8k. Meh, who cares. If you ride at 20mph you can handle your bike and this should be no big deal. Also, if you are in full kit everyone will expect that you are OK with drafting.
4-Oldster dials it up to pass OP then pulls off the path seconds later, totally ******y.
So, it goes like this: Old guy cuts in line, can't hold his pace, gets passed, drafts w/o warning, and then sprints for the 'win' just before exiting.
Dumb story but all fault on the old guy.
1-This whole thing starts with the oldster cutting in line at a red light. Was he traveling the same direction or opposite as the OP when he turned around? Who knows but cutting is always a foul.
2-Oldster takes off fast at the green as you should if cutting. But, as the OP says, the guy slows down and gets passed. The OP should have passed if the Oldster wasn't riding at his typical pace. No fault on the OP.
3-Oldster drafts the OP for 8k. Meh, who cares. If you ride at 20mph you can handle your bike and this should be no big deal. Also, if you are in full kit everyone will expect that you are OK with drafting.
4-Oldster dials it up to pass OP then pulls off the path seconds later, totally ******y.
So, it goes like this: Old guy cuts in line, can't hold his pace, gets passed, drafts w/o warning, and then sprints for the 'win' just before exiting.
Dumb story but all fault on the old guy.