kbarch

Is all of it baloney? If not, what parts?
I said it's sad about Jason Marshall and that he seemed like a thoughtful, caring guy. Is that baloney?
I said the word is a complicated place. Is it not?
The rest was my understanding of the place where this event we are talking about took place - based on regular, extensive experience of it. What non-baloney do you have to offer? Rude opinions about other people's musings? That's like baloney on steroids.

Campag4life

Sorry, I just thought it was a composite of obvious blubber. People coming to the park with different purposes? Of course. Regulating conduct such that nobody will get hurt? Of course not. Too many permutations. Without all the facts, most come away with the rider didn't exhibit good judgment and possible the lady was careless as well. Hopefully the court will find the truth.

kbarch

Yes. My point, sort of, was just to counter the way that everyone talks as if they can explain who was right and who was wrong, why it shouldn't have happened or whatever, as if was merely a matter of facts, known or unknown. And if you ask me, the courts will not find the truth, they will merely find a way to apply the law to the case presented.
I've been dealing with a traumatic experience of my own this past week, so I hope you and other readers here can forgive a little melancholy rambling.

Campag4life

Well yes, when a bicyclist runs down a pedestrian and kills him/her in a famous park like Central Park, people try to make sense of it. It rarely happens and perhaps hasn't in many years. Laws are in place as a crude mechanism to control aberrant behavior and sometimes they are inadequate if both party's are partly complicit as 'may' be the case here. As to the a court of law sorting it out, again, sometimes this doesn't happen in America but compared to the rest of the world people still have a chance of seeking the truth. In other threads there is outcry about the uneven playing field of car drivers on the road running over cyclists and getting a slap on the wrist. This is likely wrong but a last comment is...there is no amount of punishment for this rider...let's say he is deemed in the wrong, that will atone for the loss of this woman. Same if a car runs over a cyclist on the road.
Will have to see what the court decides. This was an accident without malice I am quite certain and I can't imagine being in this cyclist's shoes today.

I am sorry if you are going though a tough personal time dealing with a loss of your own and I wish you the best.

kbarch

Thanks.

surgeonstone

As Ratliff implies, making sense out of tragedy is often impossible. Wake up, thank God when you do, be amazed you get to walk, breathe, eat, piss and poop normally and be even more amazed you get to live in a country where we are not beheading each other. It can all change too quickly to take a single moment for granted.

spectastic

was this caught on camera?

maybe the cyclist was careless and wasn't paying attention until it was too late.

maybe the pedestrian didn't pay attention to the road.

you can't really know unless it's on tape.

Jaeger99

Survivor?? If I am street racing my car and run over a pedestrian, does that make me a "survivor" too? Oh gosh. Poor, poor me.

Joe Minton

What we know:

• Per #213 (UnfilteredDregs), the rules in Central Park that apply at the time and place of the collision require that the cyclist yield to the pedestrian. Period.
• At the time of the collision, no automobiles are allowed – a cyclist, therefore, can use any lane.

What we may know:

• Jason Marshall did not have access to his brakes at the time of the collision.
• He struck Jill Tarlov as a consequence of avoiding other pedestrians.

What seems to be the case:

• Jason Marshall was ignoring the ‘sense’ of the rules/law; he was, perhaps, ‘counting’ on there being no pedestrians crossing as he went by.
• He was going too fast for the conditions of the roadway. (standard governmental liability excuse).

My speculations:

• He was ‘invisible’. For some reason, it is popular for cyclists to camouflage themselves. If he had worn a yellow/orange/lime-green jersey, she might have seen him and taken evasive action.
• Both he and Ms.Tarlov had gotten used to, literally, having their way (we all do this); perhaps neither of them expected a ‘confrontation’.
• This whole matter will be handled badly.

Joe

mike12

I try to remind myself of this as often as I can. Tragedies/accidents/life happens. Like you say, thank God for what you have it can always be a lot worse.

UnfilteredDregs

It hasn't been confirmed yet but it seems he may have had the light...and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he was ignoring anything, if in fact the intersection was clear, and all of a sudden a gaggle of pedestrians ignores the light and stepped into the drive...Happens at the last second more often then you'd think. It is reasonable to speculate that a road cyclist moving at 20ish mph didn't have the time to react to such a scenario.

His speed at the accident hasn't been published either.

If in fact he was avoiding jaywalkers and hit another jaywalker, seriously injuring her in the process, it's going to become interesting.

In the greater sense the fault lies with the lax enforcement of the rules by NYPD for both foot and bicycle.

atallen223

If the guy broke the law he deserved to be treated the same way a car would in that scenario. The poorly written article seemed to be very anti cyclist in tone. It says the $4,000 dollar "racing bike" you don't see that written about car accidents. It's like writing "the 17,000 dollar nissan sentra crashed into a pedestrian". There aren't many facts, but the article seems to be blaming the cyclist. I'm not really familiar with New York laws, but is it illegal to ride in the car lanes? I have heard there is a big problem with people parking in the bike lanes.

atallen223

If the guy broke the law he deserved to be treated the same way a car would in that scenario. The poorly written article seemed to be very anti cyclist in tone. It says the $4,000 dollar "racing bike" you don't see that written about car accidents. It's like writing "the 17,000 dollar nissan sentra crashed into a pedestrian". There aren't many facts, but the article seems to be blaming the cyclist. I'm not really familiar with New York laws, but is it illegal to ride in the car lanes? I have heard there is a big problem with people parking in the bike lanes.

broadway

Don't he photos show brakes on the tri-bars?

halfspeed

According to another article, Marshall was riding in the bike lane and swerved into the car lane to avoid pedestrians.

We don't know what those pedestrians were doing, where they were coming from, how fast Marshall was going or what kind of reaction time was available.

halfspeed

Sure do.

superslomo

I never rode CP much, but I can attest to the fact that Prospect Park (similar design and use of ring road) was utterly maddening to ride at any point in the day where there was more than a very cursory level of traffic of any kind (foot/dog/bicycle/rollerblade/wheelchair/horseback riding/god knows what else.)

3alarmer 

...if you look at the progression of the case of the Strava guy here in the SF Bay Area who killed a pedestrian in a crosswalk,
you'll notice a great deal of outcry and outrage in the initial stages, some delays in going to trial, and an eventual plea to avoid
jail time. The legal process handles such cases for first offenders similarly a lot of the time.

Insofar as I can tell, the incident here has had little effect on either enforcement of existing law, or the habits of either cyclists or pedestrians.

Some things seem to be beyond the available enforcement resources, unless and until they become more common in occurrence.


I think this is why I am dismayed that there is so much outcry over discussing the behavior here on a bike forum as somehow
a lynch mob or beyond the pale, in terms of this guy's rights to fair and impartial treatment. If such things are not mentioned
here, where exactly will the debate over whether or not Strava racing in crowded urban conditions is at all appropriate take place ?


BTW, the A+S thread on this same incident was locked long ago, so kudos to the participants here for at least avoiding that level of bickering.

Joe Minton

The park rules are clear: at the time of the accident -- pedestrians have the right-of-way. Period. Doesn't matter whether the light was green or red; doesn't matter if the now-dead woman was in a crosswalk or not.

He hit her. He killed her. Her husband, children if any, and the cyclist himself will suffer. We are, most of us at least, empathetic with our fellows. Please apply your empathy to this tragedy. Consider that after all this chaotic rambling, blaming and agenda-applying we are now in the middle of, those folks directly involved will carry on without peace of mind for a very, very long time.

And consider what John Donne said so very many years ago: "Any man's death diminishes me because I am
involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. . . ."

Joe

UnfilteredDregs

Those A&S guys...yeesh!

UnfilteredDregs

Right, nevertheless there's a problem if the color of the light doesn't matter, it should not be okay for pedestrians to ignore lights in a shared facility. That indeed needs to be addressed because it renders the function of the safety appliances useless.

Pedestrians can have all the ROW in the world but if someone walks in front of my car at an intersection at the curb at the last second there's not much I could do about it.

If he had the light, was moving below the speed limit, had brakes on his bars, swerved into the car lane to avoid others ignoring the crosswalk light, and tragically hit her (ignoring the light as well), he's not guilty of anything, he did no wrong, maybe he did the best he could, at that point the fault and negligence that allows for such lies with the controls where their lack of effect allowed for the possibility of such a scenario.

You have to allow for such a possibility in this case, and it is irresponsible to allow the same conditions to remain without change if this possibility proves to be the case.

ls01

Incorrect. Pedestrians may have the right of way but that does not give them license to walk out into the road and expect traffic to come to an instantaneous stop on their behalf. You are very much over simplifying the "right of way". Pedestrians having the right of way also relies upon both parties obeying the law. You cant Jaywalk in front of a moving truck and scream "Im a pedestrian, I have the right of way!" Had the cyclist ran a red light, and there was a witness that could attest to that fact, I have 0 doubt we would have read that fact in either of what we, for lack of a better term will call, News Articles.
These articles are both very biased, and contain opinions from unsubstantiated sources. A witness describes his speed as "high" as compared to what? A pedestrian walking or a Porsche 911?
The man has a right to his day in court. We dont have anywhere near the information needed to make any kind of judgement about what happened that day. The articles are obviously slanted in a direction not in his favor. It is very apparent that someone has an ax that needs grinding.
Perhaps it is just my suspicious nature, but when someone is trying so hard to get me to "look over here" I have to wonder why.

3alarmer 

superslomo

Just because something happened that shouldn't have happened, involving some dubious decisions, doesn't mean anyone is going to jail. I would imagine the civil liability will be pretty substantial, but I would be somewhat surprised if there's a big charge coming to anyone in this case.

I think that a lot of people are just one bit of bad luck from killing someone innocent when are behind the wheel of a car. Plenty of us drive a little too fast, or look at their phones for text messages, or commit any of a myriad of other sins, and should perhaps be careful to cast stones at someone who certainly took risks, probably exercised questionable judgement, and possible was recklessly endangering others... but also was unlucky in the way circumstances unfolded, as was the pedestrian in question.

WhyFi

wut. You're cracked. I lived about 4-5 blocks away from PP. On the weekends, I would have preferred to wrap up my ride by 9am, and people can swarm on particularly gorgeous evenings early in the spring or in the fall, but there's plenty of time during the week to get in a ride. Yes, you need to be aware of the occasional meandering park goer, but the conditions are no where even close to 'utterly maddening.'