rjones28 

So, you're shorts have high-tech gel, thick, molded pad and that's their only short-coming?

Or do they not and that's okay, because you don't want it anyway?

rpenmanparker 

I have modern shorts like everybody else replete with molded gel padding. Just saying I don't think they need to have the fancy pads they have, because the saddle is sufficiently padded. That's the way it was back in the day. We rode centuries with just a true chamois in the shorts. That doesn't mean our butts were cast iron. To me it just means padding is padding; it doesn't matter whether it is on the saddle or in the shorts as long as it is fundamentally the same effective type. Don't confuse me with one of the guys who does a century in jeans. I do need the padding. I'm just saying it might as well be on the saddle instead of in every pair of shorts. What we need in shorts more than padding is a slick surface so that the pad doesn't grab our skin and chafe it. To me that is more important than the padding.

rpenmanparker 

No question that longer rides are tougher on your butt. And I have never tired to ride a racing style road bike in any form of street clothes. I'm just asking why the padding it takes to keep you comfortable should be in every pair of shorts rather than on the saddle one time. Then the shorts wouldn't need it no matter how far you were riding.

rpenmanparker 

BTW we are getting good submissions here, good discussion. Thanks.

rjones28 

Slick surface inside the shorts?

VNA

Today's bicycle shorts with synthetic bottoms are so much better than anything before including chamois that would turn into cardboard after a few rides and washes. No matter what never put them in the drier.

Anything else from padded seats to jeans are recipes for chaffing and eventually very painful boils. It is after all a very sensitive area of the body with an incredible amount of germs and sweat! A few miles to the store won't do much!

Some may not feel comfortable with lycra shorts but one can put a pair of regular shorts over them with no seams if possible.
The padding has to be next to the skin otherwise a layer or layers in between will eventually fold and will create friction and troubles will start!

Bicycle shorts are absolutely not stupid--form follows function.

rpenmanparker 

Yes. Slick so fhe skin slides on the surface and doesn't chafe.

rpenmanparker 

I'm not talking about padded seats in the sense of big pillows. I mean true racing saddles but with the padding necessary for long riding comfort. My racing saddle is exactly that. Specialized has saddles with five levels of padding from essentially none to moderate. I use the Terry Falcon Y which is kind of middle of the road. Anyway if the saddle is right, padding isn't needed in the shorts. It is just a gimmick that roadies love to buy into...literally. I am no more comfy now over any distance than when I just wore true chamois shorts. BTW I don't advocate a return to natural chamois. Surely there is a suitable synthetic with the necessary softness and slickness to do the job. And I do embrace cycling shorts. I just don't think they are where the padding should be. And oh yeah, despite naive belief to the contrary, in the whole history of the universe form has never truly followed function...at least not very well. Form follows the money.

Trsnrtr

The solution to your problem is a recumbent. Then, you can ride all day in your cammo cut-offs.

rpenmanparker 

Cute, but c'mon. You know that's not what this is about.

Trsnrtr

Just trying to help.

Seriously, I started my adult cycling career in wool shorts and real chamois' and all I remember is that they were a pain, no pun intended, to take care of. Hand scrubbing in Woolite, air drying and then liberally applying the proper cream. I think I still have an all wool kit in the attic along with a hairnet and and old pair of Dettos. They weren't all that comfortable, either.

Despite all of the above, I do agree that synthetic pads seem to have gotten out of hand as far as thickness and the 3D, anatomic shapes definitely are not one size fits all. One of my most comfortable pair of bibs came from Kucharik several years ago and they have a minimal pad and I'm sure they were very reasonably priced at the time.

rpenmanparker 

Yeah, all of us who go back that far struggled with the peculiarities of real chamois. I have no desire to go back to that but rather to substitute a similar thickness synthetic pad that would not require cream to keep it soft and would prevent chafing while leaving the padding to the saddle.

Voodoo76

Started in the 70's so I've seen a lot of changes. My opinion one of the positives to current gear is that the padding slides much less on your skin. The padding/skin interface does not move much at all compared to old gear (creating less friction on your skin). Most of the friction is now at the Lycra/saddle interface with the padding in the shorts sort of isolating your skin from that friction and movement. So it's as much a decoupling benefit as it is a padding benefit.

At the polar opposite would be the Jeans (or Jorts) mentioned above. The problem there isn't so much lack of padding, it's that the fabric sticks too well to the saddle creating more slip (friction) between fabric and skin.

Friction is the issue that needs managing, it's what creates discomfort for most not lack of padding.

Trsnrtr

I can get behind that, again, no pun intended. Most pads today are too thick for my anatomy and I don't seem to have many pain issues, anyway, regardless of my choice of saddle.

Ridelots24

Homebrew01

Then don't buy shorts with a high-tech gel, thick, molded pad in them.

wphamilton

I'd probably be good with that, but recently I went the other direction with a "carbon fiber" saddle with no padding at all. No problem for a cargo-shorts commute but I'm thinking that I'll probably prefer padded shorts for 2-3 hour rides.

loimpact

Curious....what saddle did you go with?

rpenmanparker 

Okay, now we are getting somewhere. Do I need to start another thread on that topic or can we just carry forward from here? I haven't bought shorts from a store in a long time. All the new shorts I have are part of team type kits that I accessed as special deals on the internet and came heavily padded. What do you suggest would provide the same high end characteristics in the lycra and construction but would come with only a minimal pad?

Buehler?... Buehler?...Anyone?...Anyone?

datlas 

BTW this reminds me that many years ago I did buy a pair of "gel" shorts from performance. They were heavy and felt like riding a loaded diaper. These are terrible. Awful.

But typical non-gel shorts/bibs like most road cyclists use are not like that.

RR3

Try the Assos s7 Campionissimo bibs with the birds nest for the boys. Report back. Not a ton of padding.

So much better than the vintage chamois (you know the real deer skin) Assos shorts.

Even better, use a Brooks B17 or maybe the Team Pro

wphamilton

This "New Light Weight Road Mountain Spyder Bicycle Bike Saddle, 168g, Carbon Print"


It's not actually carbon fiber, just a real hard plastic.

SlowerGuy

Tri shorts / bibs often have "thin" seat pads.

For example,
Castelli Body Paint Tri shorts/suit: about 3mm "padding"?
DeSoto has some with 4mm pads.
Bore has (had?) some cycling bibs with a thin seat pad.

I like Castelli Body Paint Tri suits together with an unpadded carbon fibre saddle (Smud): works fine on my 3-4 hour rides, and "back then" when I sometimes rode for 6-9 hour the chamois wasn't any thicker: it only provides protection against chafing, that's all I want.

rpenmanparker 

Actually all the new shorts I own, whether called "gel" or not are pretty much like that. I bought them assuming that's all there was these days. I'm talking about the thick pads in loud colors like (robin's egg blue and orange) that have hills and valleys molded into them.

rpenmanparker 

Thanks, that's what I'm talkin' about! Good recommendations. I appreciate it. Being tri shorts are the legs very short? Just wondering.