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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 11-14-15, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
+1

As much as I would like to lose another 10-15 lbs this winter I know that when I am 5 lbs lighter than now I start to feel fatigued and my performance goes down. The primary goal is about getting faster, not skinnier.
how did you get 5# lighter, and how long did you stay there?

i ask because i hear comments similar to yours SO often, and most of them are from people who either made a drastic change (lost too much, too quickly) or simply didn't let their body adjust.

this is probably not you at all...i'm responding to your post because you bring up the topic.

in my experience, until one is in the <7% BF range, losing weight without losing power is entirely possible, if done intelligently. it can take a bunch of patience and experimentation.

losing weight and training hard to improve power are not mutually exclusive...even when you are down to 5, 6, 7% BF.

(again, you probably have thought of all this, but there's a myth about losing power while losing weight. lots of blanket statements pop up around that stuff.)
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Old 11-15-15, 05:36 AM
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@tetonrider You make a good point. The 5 lbs lighter was just the effect of getting near to the end of my peak. My intensity was up, I was trying to watch my intake for the upcoming stage race. Honestly it is hard for me to say it was or was not the weight, it could have been fatigue from training. It was less about losing power, and more about losing day to day consistency. I could hit all my numbers but I needed to be ready to hit them and I could just wake up and decide "Oh I want a few 2X20s at FTP today" and bang them out, without being fresh.

This is just my experience. It is entirely possible that if I do this over the off season then I would not have this problem. That is why it is the plan to see what happens if I whittle myself down a bit this off-season I wont lose power in the process.
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Old 11-15-15, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
it looks like some other replies might have taken 'focus on #s ' a bit literally.

what length are your practice sprints?

aside from all the non-power-related stuff for sprinting, i'd focus on doing repeats of 10-12" where you shift once, or maybe twice, but only after you wind out the gear.

afterwards, you can worry about analyzing all the data (and even then i wouldn't focus on 1", ever...and i'd ONLY pay attention to 5" when i made sure the raw data was not repeating 3" of the last # transmitted, as referenced earlier). i'll tend to look more at that 10-12" power. if those are done to exhaustion you can then see your maximum sprints and your repeatability, and you can figure out if you're fading at 8", 9" or 11".

IMO max power is nice, but when looking at athletes' data i care much more about acceleration and how long they can keep accelerating before they top out. that's a bigger determinant of knowing how far from the line they can jump and hold it, and contributes to more results.

if you sprint for 12" but achieve your max power in 3" and fade, as a coach that tells me that we may need to work on different things than someone who takes longer to hit their max but, perhaps, has a lower max.

of course, tactics, position on the bike, position in the pack, gearing, yadda yadda.....
And....

There is a sprint practice course on Coyote Hill Road off of Page Mill west of Foothill. I attended a sprint clinic at the location.

As I recall, the road is flat near Page Mill and then goes up. We would climb to the top and then use the grade as a lead out and sprint from the first street light post on the flat section to the next one which is approximately 200 meters.

The theory is the sprinter should know the mark before the finish line to commence the sprint. Too early or too late is not ideal.

Doing the course over and over improves sprinting. Power analysis is a post activity while speed is used during the exercise to gage lead out speed and finishing speed. Even better is to have a training partner to push each other and or take sprint times between light poles.

Of course, you can also go to the track and do flying 200 meters on the fixed gear track bike.

Last edited by Hermes; 11-15-15 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 11-15-15, 03:32 PM
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50 miles in some cold cold rain this AM. Had to ride the brakes down any significant descent because I was shivering so bad I'd get speed wobbles. Rad

Rough week otherwise:
225 miles
14.5 hours
1060 TSS
15,000 feet

Gonna be in the -TSB cave tomorrow
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Old 11-15-15, 04:27 PM
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I'm getting back into it, base1 starts this coming week. 2.5hrs today easy endurance. 69ctl +35tsb. And away we go...
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Old 11-15-15, 05:29 PM
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another day (3rd in a row) where I did a 1x60 at sweet spot, plus some extra z2. hopefully this week I can string together 2x45 sweet spot or something
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Old 11-15-15, 05:50 PM
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20 minute power test this weekend for a 296 ftp. Up a whopping 7 watts from my last test at the end of August, 4.12 to 4.22 w/kg. Was really hoping to finally break this arbitrary 300 watt level I've established for myself. Taking solace in the fact that I was in peak shape for my last test and right now I just finished my first training block of the off season after a short break.

Gonna stick with focusing on sweet spot and tempo work for now with the occasional club hammerfest mixed in. I feel like those longer intervals really improve my strength and endurance, which have always been my primary shortcoming.
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Old 11-15-15, 06:01 PM
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like 4 hour son the fg. not even sure what I'm doing at this point. just kind of riding because it's fun and ice world has yet to set in.
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Old 11-15-15, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
just kind of riding because it's fun and ice world has yet to set in.
Sounds like a damned fine reason to me!
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Old 11-16-15, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Power analysis is a post activity
^^ i didn't say this earlier but i absolutely agree with this sentiment.
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Old 11-16-15, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Maltex
Was really hoping to finally break this arbitrary 300 watt level I've established for myself.
nice work.

that level is not arbitrary at all (based on a big round number) and, well, like 90% of cyclists seem to have that goal.
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Old 11-16-15, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
@tetonrider You make a good point. The 5 lbs lighter was just the effect of getting near to the end of my peak. My intensity was up, I was trying to watch my intake for the upcoming stage race. Honestly it is hard for me to say it was or was not the weight, it could have been fatigue from training. It was less about losing power, and more about losing day to day consistency. I could hit all my numbers but I needed to be ready to hit them and I could just wake up and decide "Oh I want a few 2X20s at FTP today" and bang them out, without being fresh.

This is just my experience. It is entirely possible that if I do this over the off season then I would not have this problem. That is why it is the plan to see what happens if I whittle myself down a bit this off-season I wont lose power in the process.
off-season is easier because the consequences are lower and it is easier to do rides on fewer calories.

that said...it's still possible to lose weight, effectively, while in heavy training. one just walks a much finer line and has to be really in tune with workload, recovery, and the body's general response.

you can lose fat, gain muscle (without hitting the weight room) and retain or increase power, too. none of it is mutually exclusive.
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Old 11-16-15, 05:10 AM
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I think that everyone varies in how well this works though. I am someone who is naturally inclined towards becoming muscular and having a relatively low amount of body fat (I could still stand to lose some). For me I would probably need to lose a little muscle mass on my trip down the weight scale. I just can't help but feel that some of us do need to give up something if we go below our "ideal" weight be that power or recovery.

Of course my intent this off-season is to test this theory. So we will see.
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Old 11-16-15, 11:19 AM
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My coach told me to gain a few pounds over the summer, so I did, and I gained a **** load of power and climbed a bunch better and recovered more quickly. So, shrug.

Today is 4hrs at a thunderderping 160ish watt pace. I hope I don't fall asleep.
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Old 11-16-15, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
My coach told me to gain a few pounds over the summer, so I did, and I gained a **** load of power and climbed a bunch better and recovered more quickly. So, shrug.
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Old 11-16-15, 11:41 AM
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I get to eat cookies on occasion! Bike racing supports a healthy body image!
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Old 11-16-15, 12:00 PM
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90 minutes of an attempt at intervals...5min on zone 3-4, 1min off for most of the ride (after 10-15 minutes). Haven't put together any kind of formal plan yet...are there any generic "winter training guides/schedules" that say "do this and this on these days for this long and you won't be fat at the end of winter". Most canned plans that I've seen are shortish (6-8 week) plans that have you training for a single event and then maybe restart after that. Never mind the fact that I'm asking for something that doesn't exist as a be-all end-all program for everyone.
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Old 11-16-15, 12:18 PM
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I used an 8 week canned plan on Training Peaks last winter. It isn't ground breaking and you don't get any feedback, but if you set your zones properly and actually stick to the plan, it will increase your fitness. The not getting fat part has more to do with limiting how many delicious baked goods you consume, which is a huge challenge for me.
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Old 11-16-15, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Today is 4hrs at a thunderderping 160ish watt pace. I hope I don't fall asleep.
I would shoot myself - I don't think I could do that at all.
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Old 11-16-15, 08:00 PM
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Trained, after being out of town for a week.

3 hours on a new groupset, felt great!
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Old 11-16-15, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy STi
I would shoot myself - I don't think I could do that at all.
It wound up being harder than that, but not proper endurance. Waking the legs up.
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Old 11-16-15, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hack
50 miles in some cold cold rain this AM. Had to ride the brakes down any significant descent because I was shivering so bad I'd get speed wobbles. Rad

Rough week otherwise:
225 miles
14.5 hours
1060 TSS
15,000 feet

Gonna be in the -TSB cave tomorrow
Nice. What does "cold cold" mean for you?

I won't do a long ride like that in rain if it's sub 50F. **** that.
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Old 11-16-15, 10:03 PM
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160w sounds boring even to little old me

FTP test tomorrow
4hrs z2 Wed.
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Old 11-16-15, 10:10 PM
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It was in the mid 40s and windy. Still acclimating to anything under 60 degrees it seems.

Also, TSB is -50 at a 92 CTL. All things were a challenge today.
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Old 11-17-15, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
I think that everyone varies in how well this works though. I am someone who is naturally inclined towards becoming muscular and having a relatively low amount of body fat (I could still stand to lose some). For me I would probably need to lose a little muscle mass on my trip down the weight scale. I just can't help but feel that some of us do need to give up something if we go below our "ideal" weight be that power or recovery.

Of course my intent this off-season is to test this theory. So we will see.
if we're talking about pure cycling performance, even that 'muscular' individual could lose/do without muscle that doesn't help with pushing on the pedals or stabilizing the bike.

not saying you or anyone else wants to do this, just in terms of being a normal human, but even in your example that person could lose weight and probably go as fast or even faster (w/kg and possibly w/cda).

cycling's really not a muscular activity.

if done right, one could maintain their sprint power, too--but it takes a lot to get it right.
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