Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Junior gear and why you care...

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Junior gear and why you care...

Old 01-08-16, 09:52 AM
  #101  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb
...
perhaps what's really needed is parental waivers for big gears, but the kid gets booted from juniors.
Good idea. We already must sign waivers as to our kids' injury.
Doge is offline  
Old 01-08-16, 11:52 AM
  #102  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wilmette, IL
Posts: 6,880
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 751 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times in 351 Posts
I never even thought of the restricted gears as being a concern when as a Junior racing with the Seniors. We just pedaled faster.

I raced as a Cat 2 for several years with a 52/14 top gear. Recalled one race at Super Week where they put the sponges in the corners expecting a record pace. We averaged something like 33 mph for the first 10 miles, and covered the 45mile distance in around 1hr 35 minutes.
big chainring is offline  
Old 01-11-16, 09:54 PM
  #103  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: California
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Huh? 35 mph = 117 rpm in a 52-14. I don't see the problem.

Ben
I probably wouldn't pass with a 52-14, even with a 22mm rear. I had a 50-14 and barely passed roll-out on two occasions.
Bunyanderman is offline  
Old 01-12-16, 06:09 AM
  #104  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If there's one thing that pisses a criterium pit official off, it's Juniors (or Juniors parents) pushing the rollout limit. If I've got a dozen bikes to roll out, some of them for riders that are waiting to line up for the next race, and I have to roll you out three times to be sure, you can bet I'll remember who you are. Don't do it.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-12-16, 09:37 AM
  #105  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Huh? 35 mph = 117 rpm in a 52-14. I don't see the problem.

Ben
Saw I didn't answer. Top speeds in a RR can be mid 50s. Sometimes for long periods. A decent hitting 53 has a junior spinning 177. Do want that in your pack going down that hill?
Doge is offline  
Old 01-12-16, 09:44 AM
  #106  
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by big chainring
I never even thought of the restricted gears as being a concern when as a Junior racing with the Seniors. We just pedaled faster.

I raced as a Cat 2 for several years with a 52/14 top gear. Recalled one race at Super Week where they put the sponges in the corners expecting a record pace. We averaged something like 33 mph for the first 10 miles, and covered the 45mile distance in around 1hr 35 minutes.
Ahhhh...."stupid weak"....how I miss thee.

Originally Posted by shovelhd
If there's one thing that pisses a criterium pit official off, it's Juniors (or Juniors parents) pushing the rollout limit. If I've got a dozen bikes to roll out, some of them for riders that are waiting to line up for the next race, and I have to roll you out three times to be sure, you can bet I'll remember who you are. Don't do it.
HAHAHA...I can't tell you how much I love having to yell "Juniors to rollout" when I'm announcing. The best is having to explain it to a pissed off parent - not the type "A" sort but the one who just thought it might be a good idea to have their kid try a bike race and even though they were well off the back and not pulled the bike they are on has illegal gears and they're DQ'd ...or even told they would be DQ'd if they raced again on it...

3 Second vent - Our sport is really f'd up (choir preaching I know, but seriously). We try to get new people involved. We do a horrible job at recruiting because honestly most int his sport are so self absorbed it's really all about them and their challenges just getting to the races on a week by week basis. Then when we are blessed enough to have a parent bring a local kid to the bike race they read about in the paper (because their weird parent still reads a paper) we confuse the living crap out of them, make them pay all sorts of money for something that seems like it should be everyone getting a medal and a capri sun for doing, then we jump all over them for not pinning a number on correctly or for having a bike that fails rollout - or simply just pulling them out of the race before the finish.

I've seen efforts to help in different areas and at different races over the years but really in general the system is set for immense failure from day 1 if you don't simply have someone on the inside willing to help you out.

It's like a kid showing up to Little League tryouts and being told that the glove they borrowed from their big brother is too big for them to use so they are disqualified. That or if they get to bat and they strike out we put them on the bench with a dunce cap and tell them they are no longer allowed to play or learn and it's for their own and other's safety. I mean we all know why it is the way it is but we to a horrid job of telling the story or delivering the message.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 01-12-16, 04:51 PM
  #107  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's gold right there, Rob. Well said.

I don't make the rules, and I'm allowed discretion to enforce them, but when somebody is intentionally testing the limits, it sets me off.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 07:33 AM
  #108  
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,569
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 678 Times in 429 Posts
We host an early season race, and every year, we have to explain to parents that their kid would have been disqualified given their gearing. (The race official rarely DQs any juniors for this race.) The parents are often confused and frustrated and annoyed at the prospect of shelling out more money.

A couple years ago, we had a new middle/high school team come out for their first every races. In the weeks leading up to the event, I reached out to the school's assistant principal to explain the license process and junior gearing. I did a lot of hand holding to make the process as clear and easy as possible. They still had a couple kids who failed roll out.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 10:51 AM
  #109  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was working the pit at the Kermis two years ago and this kid at the back of the rollout line suddenly shouts "oh ****", and starts twisting the rear derailleur barrel adjuster. I tell him he cannot touch the bike. He keeps twisting. He fails rollout and I report this to the Chief Referee. It's. It's not the role of the rollout official to DQ riders, that is up to the CR. I report what I find. They make the decision.

I had a kid at Hilltowns whip out a screwdriver from his jersey.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 11:15 AM
  #110  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by topflightpro
The parents are often confused and frustrated and annoyed at the prospect of shelling out more money.
While I don't doubt your experience in this area - can't they just adjust the limit screws? (as opposed to buying a new cassette)
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 11:55 AM
  #111  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd
I was working the pit at the Kermis two years ago and this kid at the back of the rollout line suddenly shouts "oh ****", and starts twisting the rear derailleur barrel adjuster. I tell him he cannot touch the bike. He keeps twisting. He fails rollout and I report this to the Chief Referee. It's. It's not the role of the rollout official to DQ riders, that is up to the CR. I report what I find. They make the decision.

I had a kid at Hilltowns whip out a screwdriver from his jersey.
why can't he adjust the limit prior to rolling out?
Ygduf is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:08 PM
  #112  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
They can't adjust the limit (to block out illegal cogs) after racing but before rolling out. That's actual cheating.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:31 PM
  #113  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by globecanvas
They can't adjust the limit (to block out illegal cogs) after racing but before rolling out. That's actual cheating.
was @shovelhd talking post-race? I thought only rollout pre-race
Ygduf is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:40 PM
  #114  
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
roll out is after
gsteinb is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:41 PM
  #115  
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
I have to say, 2 pages in and I still don't care about junior gearing.
with two in the oven fudgy may be a bit short sighted here.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:43 PM
  #116  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb
roll out is after
Not always.

At any rate, I don't see why it's a big deal - a screwdriver can fix it!
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 12:44 PM
  #117  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
my wife is wholly nonathletic. I will push my kids into running track or something much cheaper/less-aerobar-discussion-filled than cycling.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 01:18 PM
  #118  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
Rollout is sometimes before and sometimes after and sometimes both and sometimes a subset - so all before and top 10 after.
Rules say that equipment issues may not be addressed after the finish - which always makes a roll-out after interesting to me.
Doge is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 01:37 PM
  #119  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I get not allowing them to change after the race, that defeats the purpose, bad restriction or not.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 04:45 PM
  #120  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm
While I don't doubt your experience in this area - can't they just adjust the limit screws? (as opposed to buying a new cassette)
Blocking out via the limit screws is legal except at national races.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 04:46 PM
  #121  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
why can't he adjust the limit prior to rolling out?
The bike cannot be adjusted between the time the bike crosses the finish line and when it is handed off to the rollout official.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 04:47 PM
  #122  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
was @shovelhd talking post-race? I thought only rollout pre-race
Pre-race rollout is a courtesy if the official has time. Post-race rollout is required for road events for all Juniors no matter which field they are racing in. You may be thinking of tech inspection for time trials.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 04:50 PM
  #123  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm
Not always.

At any rate, I don't see why it's a big deal - a screwdriver can fix it!
It is possible to block out using the barrel adjuster, negating the need for a screwdriver. No matter what, it's illegal between the finish and rollout.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 05:19 PM
  #124  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,474

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3374 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd
It is possible to block out using the barrel adjuster, negating the need for a screwdriver. No matter what, it's illegal between the finish and rollout.
I don't see this is something kids cheat on. They just don't pass sometimes mostly because they forgot to change wheels.
The other way is have a flat tire.
So what does the referee do with this one (see rear tire)?
Attached Images
Doge is offline  
Old 01-13-16, 05:19 PM
  #125  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I've only ever seen it done pre-race and I probably just haven't been around when they do post-race ones.
Ygduf is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.