El Diablo Rojo

Why?

merlinextraligh

Annoying because they've earned more money than you? With the exception of children, whose parents gave them the bike, those people earned those bike.

Voodoo76

I agree with this based on my experience moving up thru the ranks (from 4 to 2, no 5 at the time). 3's were the worst. A concentration of agressive riding, strength and lack of experience (or stupidity) that the other Cats missed. By cat 2 the guys who were trying to win in turn 2 of lap 3, or the guys prone to taking idiot lines into the last turn were either weeded out or smarted up.

El Diablo Rojo

This all goes back to the changing demographic in amature cycling. The ave age of licensed USCF racers is now between 30-35 years of age. These guys have real jobs and are not trying to eek out a living as a bike shop mechanic.

UmneyDurak

It's amateur racing. People do it for fun and excitement. The only "earning" is whatever you can afford to race on. Who cares what other people are racing on. Whats important is that they are not "that swirly" guy, not what bikes people are on.

Ghostman

I find this remark to be, shall we say, ill-considered. Why make moral judgments about someone else who either has money or does not have it. Having money does not make you a better person or a better racer. But neither does NOT having money make you inherently more noble or godly. If someone rolls up on an $800 beater and races hard, that's great. If the same guy rolls up on some piece of trick Euro-exotica, that's great too.

So stop judging people based on whether they have money or not and judge them based on their character... It is not your place to say who has "earned" what

DrPete 

And that, as Stone Cold Steve Austin would say, is the bottom line. Well said.

alreadyblue

HA HA! I guess I found all the CAT 5's riding $5000 bikes.
I made no MORAL judgements. Quote me, go ahead. What did I say?
"I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available."
I found it annoying to ME. Just like some people get annoyed by people doing the speed limit in the left lane. If you want to spend $5000 on a bike, when you just started racing, go ahead. Just don't cry when your fancy carbon fiber bike gets toasted in a crit because a squirely cat 5 smashed into you.

But mainly it's because that money could be used elsewhere. The performance difference between a $2000 bike and a $5000 is minimal for a cat 5. The $3000 could be used elsewhere with much better results. Like on a coach, or personal trainer.

Frankly I knew I'd get flamed by making that comment, but it's how I see things. Sorry my opinion struck a nerve with some people.

DrPete 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd be interested to know what cat you race in, what you ride, and how much you think you'd be able to comfortably afford to spend for a bike.

patentcad

Botto, what category do you race in over there in Holland? How old are you/do they have Master's there? Is it similar to amateur weekend racing here in the USA??

alreadyblue

Cat 4
Kona Zing Supreme
$1500-$2000

Yes, I understand a lot of people make a lot more money than I do. I'm not bitter. I decided to enter a profession (Architecture) that, despite the extra education, long licensing process, and heavy work load, just doesn't pay very well. I don't care if you make six figures. I don't care if you ride the same bike as Basso, Armstrong, whoever. I just think that bike racing might be a little different if we all rode the same bike.

The funny thing is, people are flaming me because I'm giving the guys on the $5000 bikes a hard time. But how many dirty looks did I get from racers/club riders when I use to show up on my old Specialized. It works both ways, and you all know it.

El Diablo Rojo

The only part of your statement that got me was 'earn' part. The guys that make these comments in person tend to be young, college aged and living with roommates. Now you can tell us that your 39 and partner in successful law firm making 800k a year and we couldn't prove you wrong. But for the afore mentioned young rider/racer remember for someone like me who is making a very good living $5k for a bike isn't that big a deal. Neither is owning my own home or driving a nice car. Yes it's true I could live in less expensive crappy home and drive a less expensive crappy car and race a less expensive bike. But I choose not too.

I have worked very very hard over the last 18years to become good at what I do. That entailed me working doubles 6 days a week in the first few years of learning my craft at very little pay. So I guess I've earned the right to enjoy the success. What I find interesting is when the same people who think one must earn the right to have a nice bike are wearing a pro team jersey, I assume they earned one of those as well.

The bottom line is why would you care? If you drop the guy it isn't because of his bike and if he drops you it isn't because of his bike. If you race a low budget bike that is in perfect working order then all the power to you, just be happy that guys are showing up to race, on what ever they choose to race on.

zimbo

I think they are simply disagreeing with your stated opinion regarding what Cat5 racers should or should not do.

--Steve

alreadyblue

No, not at all. You missed before when I said a cat 5 could buy a $2000 bike and spend the rest of the money hiring a coach or personal trainer. That would be more productive. Don't you agree? And isn't racing about doing/being/performing your best? Yes, there is fun involved, but it's all about competition. What is going to make you a better competitor? Tell me. A $5000 bike, or a $2000 bike and $3000 worth of coaching, training, etc.

MIN 

I'm inspired. Couldn't have said it better.

DrPete 

So you're saying the bike DOES make a difference. The logical extension of that would be that if you could afford a better/faster bike you'd buy one whether you "earned" it or not, because there's some inherent advantage that you don't enjoy by riding your cheaper bike.

And no, I've never given anyone a "dirty look" about what bike they're riding. I would contend that your perception might be making these "dirty looks" out of something that's not really there. But if people truly are poo-pooing you because of your bike, then they're just as much in the wrong as you are for labeling those on nice bikes as somehow not deserving.

Ghostman

I am not trying to flame you. Indeed I ride an $1800 Bianchi with a couple big chunks of paint scrapped off the top tube.

If anything what's great about bike racing is that spending $5000 does not get you a faster bike -- at least by very much. So I disagree that racing would be more "equal" if people were on standardized bikes.

It is all about the engine. And that is something that money can't buy. That is the beauty of the sport.

MIN 

What about social forces within team dynamic where everyone chooses to ride $5000 bikes? That is very common. The team can be a greater coach than apersonal coaching.

DrPete 

That wasn't your argument. The argument was that it takes a certain level of cycling ability to be worthy of said $5000 bike.

But nice back-pedaling, either way.

DrPete 

Ghostman continues to be the fountain of truth.

El Diablo Rojo

I agree completely. I've told people who have asked me about my carbon wheels that if I had to choose between my coach and my wheels I'd have taken the coach in a heart beat. In your original post you more judgmental about Cat 5's on high dollar bikes. Also it's important to realize that the age demographic has really moved upward in the last 10 years. Entry level racers are no longer early 20 somethings the are now mid 30 somethings. With this comes a whole different mindset and bank account. Also for some of these guys having a Madone with carbon wheels and an SRM gets them motivated to ride their bikes to begin with.

Look I agree with the whole bike thing, I race a CAAD8 because I think it's the best handling race bike out there and it's cheap. If I crash it I don't care because the frames next to nothing compared to a LOOK 595. The irony is that if I weren't racing I'd have a 595 because they are that f'n sexy.

El Diablo Rojo

The other interesting thing about our sport is that we all love the 'things'. The power meters the carbon wheels, the uber light framesets. This is part of the sport that I love. There is a guy who comes out and races a full carbon Cinelli with RAM bars and 07 Record. The bike is just pure sex, and he's kinda slow. But man he loves his bike and he lines up every other weekend just like the rest of us. He's enjoying himself and if you aren't at least doing that at this level then what's the f'n point.

DrPete 

What about the Cat 5 who has $10000 to spend, and buys a $7000 bike and spends $3000 on a power meter and coaching?

alreadyblue

Seriously?
No, I said "I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available."
That was my original statement.
Within reason.

And I said that "bike racing might be a little different if we all rode the same bike." I didn't say I'd be wining at every race because now we have the same equipment. Have you ever talked to a runner? It's all about performance and training with them. Love your bike, but when you're on that last lap and your legs are burning and your lungs can't give anymore, what's going to get you to the podium? Your bike, or your training.

botto 

ouch.