Enthalpic

If you have been riding "seriously" for the last two years I doubt you have much risk from doing a sub-maximal fitness test, but I am not a physician. Remember, FTP is less than VO2max.

To track changes in overall health you could use something like the 6min walk test (google), super easy.

For cycling you could do an incremental or ramp fitness test. Slowly increase your power output while recording your rate of perceived exertion. Stop when you feel it is unsafe to continue. Plot RPE on y and power on x and extrapolate to RPE ~17 or little more if tough. 19-20 is VO2max



Prediction of maximal or peak oxygen uptake from ratings of perceived exertion. - PubMed - NCBI

Wesley36

Golden Cheetah uses a Critical Power model where FTP is more or less CP60, as you upload files it will calculate a modelled cp and cp curve that should be in the rough ballpark.
As I understand it, WKO4 models FTP in an analogous manner

revchuck 

Rich - Glad to see you here! If you haven't found them already, there are two geezer-specific subforums here - 50+ and Master's Racing. Lots of good info on both.

Re: FTP, unless you have specific health issues, there's no reason you can't find your FTP the normal way. It'll just hurt like you haven't hurt since you were younger. It takes a long warmup and a long cooldown, just like other stuff at our age. One method involves two, eight minute time trials with about 8-12 minutes between them; take 90% of the higher average power as your FTP. If you just want a ballpark figure, doing one of them and taking 90% of that average power would be close.

Before trying this, get your primary care doc to refer you to a sports medicine doc who's used to dealing with senior athletes, and discuss it with him. Most primary care docs still believe seniors should be confined to shuffleboard and maybe horse shoes.

Enthalpic

CP model expects you to do maximal efforts at shorter durations...

Ygduf

I want to send someone a file and see what WKO models my FTP at. Anyone?

grolby

Hmm not for nothing but I think there are people who train with power who find it useful in races, like you do, and people who train with power who don't find it useful. Doge isn't flying a freaky flag on this. I personally fall into the latter camp so far, though I would be open to seeing it differently in the future. But so far I've found my RPE is pretty much dead-on, and when it's not, the fact that I'm still going fast or sliding off the back is enough to get me to either keep pedaling or give up without needing to check my output. So far, when I've done a race and thought "Damn, I was maxed out at the top of that climb," or something similar, my data has shown, yeah, based on my tested power at Duration X, I was maxed out. To me it's not much different from looking at HR in a race. But that could change.

Ygduf

I don't know if I would race any differently without power, I guess. I just am comfortable having it and I prefer to be comfortable as I can in my racing. I also don't use power to train intervals like many of you do. I train w/group rides and ride them like races (to a point), so the transition to being in a race is super minimal.

Heathpack 

Lol.

Youre more fit than I am.

Congrats.

<Low bar.>

But seriously not the point.



Red line is HR, purple is power. Now the power is not great, I know, too much variation, my first and only TT. The point is HR varies very little, power varies more. So it just makes sense to me that you're going to get more benefit by knowing (& manipulating) your power than by knowing your HR.

Im not actually arguing. I'm asking.

Doge

get there in warm up. Start hot. 10 min before start be at AT.

tetonrider

nice.

in general it is more stochastic. also, in general, power is lower on the MTB for a given RPE.

lots of nuances based on local trails and riding styles, but the above tend to be true.

tetonrider

wired SRM set to measure >1Hz.

i bet shimano would want to see that. also, perhaps every single world tour team should get this photo from you. seriously.

Doge

Are those rings usable on SRM?
Shimano USA hq will have it tomorrow.
Why this is more significant that the Venge frame issue is I'm sure people associated that with user error. Pretty much the same to me. I'd switch from Specialized before switching from Shimano. The support, at least for us is very different.

Doge

That is a steady HR. If you know your AT and are at it in the TT, then choose to use power you may cook yourself if you try to maintain power and allow your HR to go over AT. You cannot recover without now going under AT for a bit. If you do recover without a HR drop - you were not at your AT.

globecanvas

Seems a lot more significant to me in that it's a part breaking in a way I've never seen before, as opposed to a wheel pulling which happens all the time due to user error. Your specific wheel/dropout issue may not have been user error but when I see a pulled wheel, user error is definitely the first, second, and third cause that I assume.

Wylde06

I ignore heart rate in any race I do.

shovelhd

There is most certainly a DA9000 SRM. If I could afford one I would own one.

Heathpack 

Ok, I'm not convinced but I will keep an open mind as I ride some TTs.

My LTHR based on 8ish months of WKO data is 165 bpm. Almost immediately in the TT from the above post, my HR was at/above that. At the beginning, my power was right below FTP and typically (at that point in my training anyway) for that power, I knew my HR would be 160ish. I was seeing these 165-170 bpm readings on my Garmin and I had to think about it a bit, I was wondering if there was a problem, if I needed to back off. I felt good, power was on-target and after a minute or two I decided it was just catecholamine release, race day stuff, all was well and to just go with it, so I continued on.

I rode it power-wise exactly as planned, which was 103% FTP. I for sure think I could have slipped a few more watts in there but it was my first TT and I was being conservative. But my HR values were higher than I ever really see, I have almost no HR values over 165. They have since dropped off my WKO+ 28-Day HR graph, but for a while, this one data file was populating its own set of HR numbers on the graph, numbers that I never really see.

In this situation, HR was being affected by my physiologic state whereas power was not. (There was no heat or altitude affecting things.) So when I say I'm unconvinced, what I mean is that in this scenario, I'd rather ride my threshold effort based on power over HR. But generally speaking, I feel like I'd always want both types of information, they tell me overlapping but slightly different things. It will be interesting if I feel that same way a year from now, right now much of my opinion is based on theoretical understanding of this stuff rather than actual experience.

globecanvas

Data point: my teammate's Stages failed today, 24 hours before a stage race. Zero-offset values all over the place. He tried new batteries twice, and removing and re-torquing the crank arm. He is really bummed.

globecanvas

On the other hand I just went for my first ride with my MTB stages (I now have 3 of them) and it worked great.

gsteinb

Don't hit me over the head with your anecdotal evidence!

gsteinb

You get what you pay for…the what being specifically dependability, meaning it may or may not work based on something as basic as luck of the draw? I'd love for these things to be bombproof.

globecanvas

It's two anecdotes! That makes it data!

Duke of Kent

My Hollowgram Stages has been working flawlessly on my MTB for 20 months now.

But, I am but a 145lb girly-man.

Porschefan

This is an edited and updated version of a post I made in the "Wattage" Google group. I got some good data from users there, but still have some questions and confusion.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 Stephen Porter wrote:

I'm not an advanced rider, but have an affinity for gadgets and an interest in training to as high a level of fitness as practical--what that is, I can't even say yet. I do have someone I'm working with, but am on hiatus right now due to a broken wrist. I've spent some of my down time researching power meters as best I can and I'd like to get something fairly soon.

I don't want to spend more than necessary and I certainly don't want to go over the $1K mark. My current bike is a 2015 Trek Domane 4.3 and the premium meters would cost more than the bike! I'm also pretty sure some of the less expensive options would be totally adequate for me.

I've pretty much ruled out the PowerTap hub-based units since I would prefer the flexibility of upgrading wheels whenever I'd like. Ditto with any of the pedal-based units since I currently use Speedplay pedals and I would even like to preserve the option to try other types. So that leaves one of the crank-based units.

If I had to purchase something today, it would probably be a Power2Max "classic" with the FSA Gossamer cranks. This is very attractively priced at $499.00, but according to someone at the company, I would have to add the $99 Praxis chain rings (50-34) instead of the chain rings on the Shimano RS-500/565 crank that came on the bike. (I previously thought it was the Shimano 5800 105, but I guess Trek cheaped out a little and used this crankset instead--rest of the group is 5800 105.) EDIT: I had told the P2M guy that I had the 5800 crank, which is a 4-bolt pattern, so perhaps his recommendation on the Praxis rings was based on that. Since the RS-500 crank is a 5-bolt pattern, maybe I could just use those rings. I don't really mind buying the Praxis rings if they are even marginally better though, since I would then have a complete RS-500 crankset to throw on Craigslist and recoup $20 or so.

The Domane has the Trek BB90 bottom bracket shell. The same P2M representative told me that the FSA crankset "should" be able to mounted with the stock bearings, but if not they sell some replacement bearings (FSA, IIRC) that might be needed for proper fitment and would definitely be used as replacement bearings in the future. Being a newb, I'm wondering if there is any sketchiness here? If not, this option at about $600-650 all-in is very attractive. No dual-sided direct power measurements, but according to DC Rainmaker, they have a pretty good algorithm for extrapolating left/right power--probably totally good enough for me?

Next in order of preference would be the Pioneer model, but it seems that would required a whole new crankset--Ultegra 6800 or DA 9000, which puts this one well above $1K.

4iiii is very attractive, but kind of a gamble at this point with so little actual user data out there.

PowerTap crank-based model looks good too, but it's not even out yet and, according to their website doesn't offer the compact 50-34 option--only 50-36--and I'm pretty sure I'd be better off with the lower gearing. Advantage is claimed true dual-sided power.

A rep at Competitive Cyclist who seemed to know a lot about power meters and was very helpful, was recommending the Quarq ELSA, but that was also considerably more than this P2M.

One last question--the least expensive P2M--the "Classic" on the FSA Gossamer only comes in 165, 170 and 175mm lengths. I'd prefer a 172.5, but does 2.5mm really matter for someone like myself? I'm 6' tall, 180 lbs. with legs probably a little shorter than normal for my height.

So, if anyone has any pointers, suggestions, advice I'd appreciate them. The older "Classic" P2M's are being discontinued, so there's that "buy now" urgency also.

TIA.

STP

Ygduf

when you say things like this I am reminded that you don't race. If I'm wrong, correct me, but I feel like you never train(ed) with power?

HR is way more variable than power, day to day, event to event.