globecanvas

I don't remember a jumbotron at Harlem last year. Was that a one time thing? Or only when it was NCC?

Tulsa Tough had cameras all over the course and live-produced video on the jumbotron, for all categories. It makes for a really, really, really great experience. I mentioned this before, but my wife got a lot of announcer comments and jumbotron time as she was enthusiastically celebrating the finish. Sadly though, that one masters race isn't on the Tulsa Tough vimeo page, maybe they weren't recording or something.

carpediemracing 

One time thing from what I know.

Apparently it was 2008. I took this video, which includes some buzzy jumbotron stuff:
I think there are a bunch of videos up from that year, from Universal Sports. The earlier races were wet crashfests.

Username sportsnetwork, their clip of the P1 finish:

I blew up in that race. I had to re-read my post:
Sprinter della Casa: Racing - Harlem Rocks! 2008 recap

carpediemracing 

I never used it in my clips, no maps/power/etc. I only put text and music on my clips.

FYI add the "@" in front of the user name to ping them. I didn't see this until just now.

Ygduf

I look terrible in my cameos and nobody wants to see cat 3 racing!

also, leg warmers: it's never that cold in a race

WheresWaldo

New about the @ just didn't use it since it should have been a more general question for everyone. Anyway, I am going to start using Virb Edit for multiple camera angles and data overlay. Might take a look at Racerender since they are cheap and also have a feature limited free version.

misterwaterfall

I would be so pumped to have crits this time of year. Outside of the weeknight series we don't have any until the end of April/May

Doge

3 videos of this weekend's ICE Breaker in Ontario (SoCal).
What stood out to me as I was editing footage was all the looking around these kids did as they tried to execute as a team. There are riders of significantly different abilities, but they executed the plan to get their teammates the points and position. We now will have 5 junior Cat 2s.

hack

@Doge out of curiosity, how much variety is there across Jr teams down that way? Up here, there is one pretty large Jr team that seems to swarm fields making it a 10 of them vs like 5 randoms.

mattm

Sweet vids!

In the Jr's race, wasn't LUX chasing their own guys in the break?

Doge

No. Hard to see but perfect. The guy bridging was the one "designated" to win. The Specialized rider is strong. The two stronger LUX (both Cat 2s) went off. Then with his teammates up front waiting for him he attacked to bridge while his other LUX teammate stayed with opponent and a few managed the pack.

Doge

LUX is a new team for us and this year it is that team. But that is new. LUX has 5-6 guys that are competing at the national level against about 5 National teams and then the other riders will be competing locally.
But for SoCal SC Velo has had a good group for years. San Diego Bicycle Club has come in and out. Monster Media had a strong team for two years. Rokform is a well supported team with lots of riders that has typically fielded a lot of riders. Their director is a very dedicated and brings a lot to SoCal racing. Half the teams talk to each other, half - don't talk.

hack

Sounds like there is some diversity though, which is good for all the kids (I'd think).

hack

worth a watch if you have some down time like I do

rkwaki

Damn. That right there is my kind of sprint course. Push my 54x11 on there...

Doge

There have been posts in this forum that say Junior gears don't make a difference. 2nd place was on a 52X14 and a teammate - who was warming up next to 1st place a teenager on adult gears (coached by our director). 5th place was a late teenager (Cat 1) who I was speaking to before the race and he was saying his placing is much better now he is off that 14T (puppy would beat him when he was a junior - now he is one of the better Cat 1 sprinters).

We have two guys that seem to have the leg speed that it normally doesn't matter who they race against, Puppy Doge is not one of them. Sprint looked slower Sunday night - I am guessing due to weather, lighting conditions, and the lack many real pros (Bahadi et al) that take this to a 45mph sprint.

<Soap box>
The reason for my whining, besides affecting Puppy, is I see USAC select juniors on Euro performance on 52X16 and 52X14 when the gears, and courses are different in the UCI junior and certainly adult races. Which I believe currently contributes to the low correlation of junior UCI world champions to pros vs. the high correlation of UCI TT (no sprint) world champions to pros. Or simply - if there is a fast sprint finish you will get very different results if the equipment restrictions are removed - so fast sprint races should not be used for any junior selections.
</Soap Box>

rkwaki

I'll agree with this. My good friend pipped me in a sprint one day, he was on junior gears, I was running a 54 up front. He just got wound up faster. We're both 2,000 watt sprinters, he just got the legs up and running more quickly.

furiousferret

For those of us that have no clue about junior racing, can you elaborate? Do Juniors have to ride specific gearing?

rkwaki

Juniors are restricted to a specific gear rollout. Break that rollout and you are DQ'd.

Doge would have that measurement handy as officials will do rollout of every bike after the race.

carpediemracing 

They're limited to a 52x14 or so (based on normal tires).

To put things in perspective when I had a front derailleur problem and got stuck in a 39T, my biggest gear was a 39x11. It's about equal to a 53x15, so it was my old Jr gear limit but lower than the current one. A 42x11 would be about the right gear for the current limit. Ultimately I won the sprint out of the little group, beating a Cat 2 that runs a 55x11 (and normally he beats me in sprints).

In the old days it was staggered. 53x15 for the oldest Juniors (it was my gear limit from ages 15-17), x16 for the next, and x17 I think for the younger group.

There's a "roll out" after each race. Juniors must use Jr gearing even in non-Junior races. If they don't pass roll out (meaning the bike goes too far in one revolution of the cranks in the bike's highest gear) then they get disqualified. Some Juniors will do one race with Junior gearing then stick on a big gear wheel (11-23 or whatever) and accept the DQ at the end of the race. They literally don't bother showing up for rollout which is an automatic DQ. I saw this all the time at the Bethel Spring Series - do the 3-4 race on Jr gears, the P123 race on Sr gears. Some of the riders would place in the P123 race and forfeit their prize money, placing, etc.

furiousferret

That does seem like a major limiter. I can understand 14 years and under but not 15 and up.

Doge

Yes. Cycling is the only sport in the world I know of where a person, based on age alone, may not use the equipment their competitor does. I am very biased/opinionated about this. So I apologize for the flavor of my reporting.

Keeping it to the USA all 18 and under road (track has age graded limits) are limited to a 26' roll out (basically a 52X14, but 53X13 on a 19mm tire may pass) gear. Then USAC may get involved and limit equipment sometimes (VOS TT). The other part is in the span of my kid racing USAC has changed, or talked about changing ($$$) wheel material, number of spokes, spoke material, bikes allowed in TTs and gears. While it may be better to learn on smaller gears - that is a coaching decision. We do not have the governing body also determining bike fit. Make the rules and ensure (as much as they can) the playing field is fair.

Outside the USA. The only "good part" is kids don't race adults normally, so all competitors are at least on the same equipment. UCI defines junior as 17-18 and as far as I know, for UCI juniors all rules are the same world-wide. Ages 9-16 rules vary by country. For 16 and below Belgium/Netherlands restrict gears to 52X16 and wheel profile to 30mm and I believe metal rims. Denmark allows carbon 50mm profiles. France allows a 50X14 gear.
When I was visiting last year a Danish sprinter kid who's family drove from Denmark to Belgium had his wheels DQ'd. He borrowed wheels from the USA van and won both races he did. If they wanted to drive another 100 miles to France and race they would need to change gears and his wheels may be allowed.

The reason given for the gears is that it keeps the racers together and doesn't favor the early development kids who can power away on bigger gears and the kids learn to race. That makes sense, its just that when they turn 17 it changes and at 19 it changes again.

At ages 17/18 bike weights (all UCI rules) come into play for significant races.

Having spent about 10+ years close to USA Soccer, I see many of the same things in USAC. Primarily country organization trying to help development and the net result being parents are just spending more money (as are adult racers who's fees go to these programs) with little as a direct result of these programs. I would prefer rules be left the same world-wide and for all competitors in the same event to be allowed the same equipment.
Those adaptable puppies will grow into big dogs just fine.

shovelhd

The rollout is 26 feet. USAC doesn't care what gears and wheels get you there as long as you do not go over. The best Juniors have this down to a science and get it within a mm or two without blocking out. The main offenders in my experience are the triathletes who block out. It's not pleasant to tell a kid and his/her parents that he/she is disqualified, I don't like it, but rules are rules. There is a new Technical Director at USAC, so Doge you should make your case. USAC made the no-TT bike exception for under 14 recently, so a precedent was set for road racing.

Doge

There are discussions being had - primarily about how selection is done and those are best lobbied by our team director. I'm just ranting as a parent, and a true cycling fan, on a forum rather than working this morning.

The CHANGES are what hurt the most. I bought carbon wheels in 2008. I was told in 2009 that they would not be allowed in 2010. I bought a TT bike just at the end of Puppy's 14 year just as they made the new rule for 14. All these changes on short notice cause more money and effort. All the better kids have their stuff and no matter what we do, cycling is a sport that for kids has a moderate cost of entry (primarily travel) so USA will not be getting more kids involved by swapping equipment rules around.
More examples - but you get it.

shovelhd

Rule changes are made at the end of the road season and communicated to the officials early the following year. Just don't buy anything until the rule changes are released.

Doge

In SoCal for juniors you need to be buying in late Nov if you don't want the good stuff gone and you want to ride it for the very significant late Jan and Feb races. National team selection is pretty much over by end of Feb.