My Garmin absolutely refused to read speed and power from when I powered it on. Power and speed/cadence sensor detected however. Cadence and HR were alright. I don't understand. This is the 3rd time it's happened this year. I'm more pissed than I should be for losing data for one JRA ride. Thinking of getting a used PC7.

Edit: turns out low battery (this time on the powertap) can cause this. the last time I had this was with a low battery on the speed/cadence sensor. Weird.

I've only had that happen when the PT battery was low, guess I've been lucky.

I've had a few instances where my Garmin 510 would not pick up any devices on start up. Its frustrating the first few times but a restart is usually all it needs. Maybe my next computer will be a Pioneer after [MENTION=125938]Ygduf[/MENTION] has finished beta testing.

pioneer is fine after ~40 days/100 rides. Hardware definitely doesn't feel as polished as garmin, but wifi upload is great and it doesn't lose rides. 8/10 would buy again.

because of wifi upload I did forget to charge it once and after a week it shut down on me (right after a hillclimb, so no big deal). Now I charge it before the weekend longer rides.

Well, crap. @tetonrider. I just upgraded my crux E5 frame to a pro carbon. Now the 42T single ring won't work in the inner position. It clears the chainstay with about 1mm of clearance, but any flex will saw through the frame.

How did you handle this problem?

Maybe the race face 42T narrow/wide ring, in the outer position, and no outer guard?

... well, I ordered one. Hope it works!

Anyone familiar with the TRP R960 brakes and tire clearance? My rear brake on my CAAD10 has about 1mm (maybe 2mm) of clearance with new 23mm tires. I know once the tire expands it won't fit anymore. I have friends that have the exact same set up with slightly more clearance, so seems like factory spec issue from Cannondale. Anyone know of any ways to fix or adjust, besides the obvious get different brakes.

which cranks are you using?

i've fit a 42T ring in the inner position -- and i've raced it a bunch of times and haven't destroyed my frame. i'm racing the s-works edition but would assume it is identical to the pro version -- could be variances due to paint, though. the paint on my frame is pretty darn thick.

i use an s-works crankset with SRM spider and wolf tooth narrow-wide 130bcd/42T ring; i also use an outer guard. if anything, the narrow-wide ring gives you LESS clearance than a normal ring; every other tooth is thicker. it's pretty minimal, but you know how tight the clearance is.

are you using the s-works crankset or are you familiar with it? the latest model uses set screws on the NDS to set preload. what i did was back out the set screws all the way, and i then used a series of shims on the DS to set preload. this offset the whole crankset a bit toward the DS. can't recall exactly, but i believe the shims were ~0.3mm, and i offset it about 1, 1.5mm to the right. this gave me enough clearance for the cranks to spin freely with some breathing room. i was a bit nervous as to how it would perform in a real-world situation, but all-out sprints and rough terrain have not caused any issue.

i did use some helicopter tape on the chain stay as a precaution (reduced the clearance a bit)--doesn't have any marks.

if i raced in thick mud i might be more worried. we don't usually have those conditions here, so i haven't tested it.

i feel like a 40T would be NO problem on my setup; 42T was cutting it tight. i was unwilling to run a 1x setup without an outer guard, but if you're open to that you can easily swap ring positions. a clutch RD might make me more comfortable with that setup....but i think i'd still rather have the outer guard.

someone more experienced with cross can probably weigh in on that 1x w/o outer guard setup. i'm running 1x on my MTBs...but i have clutch RDs. might swap in an XTR di2 clutch RD when i can get my hands on one, but it's heavier, so no real advantage vs lighter non-clutch RD + outer guard.

wifi upload is super neat. having rides automatically uploaded to the service of your choice is long overdue...but i can see how it would mean possibly forgetting to charge. my head units get a few minutes of juice every day when i download a file.

pc7's battery life is, like, forever. i'm a bit nervous about the battery life of the pc8....gps, bluetooth.....i think you can turn off the gps but not sure about the BT.

is the wifi "always on"? wonder if that contributes to reduced battery life.

part of the ride processing when you reset it is the wifi comes on, auto connects with known networks, uploads, then turns wifi off. It's not constantly on or searching. And the battery was my fault. I think it's good for 15 hours or so.

ah...intelligent design. is the data recorded regardless of whether or not one resets?

would be cool if you could set it up so that based on GPS it knows it is back at home and can upload automatically.

(i understand about the battery, but your example is a good one: by plugging a device in to download we always give the unit a charge; wireless makes that a possible failure point.)

I don't understand the question? The time the battery died on me when I did charge and turn it on the ride was in the same state as when the battery caused the shutdown. Reset just zero's the counters and saves the ride file...

sorry--garmin devices do not record data (create a file) unless one resets the device. also, recording does not happen unless one presses 'start'. this is bad and can lead to lost data. some other head units always store the data that is displayed (no start/stop required, no 'reset' to save).

i wondered if the pioneer required any button presses to begin recording or to store the file.

IMO, data should always be recorded (some combo of power/cadence/HR >0)--storage is cheap. it's too easy to forget to hit start, esp if data is being displayed so that it looks like it's being recorded.

start/stop/reset works as the garmin did.

So do you have to trim data or split files if you want to pare a race to just race data or something?

bummer (for me) on the start/stop thing. it's rare but it happens -- just the other day when using my garmin i saw it displaying data and forgot to hit 'start'. (remembered a few minutes later.) i use the garmin for capturing cross stuff...GPS is nice for the off-the-bike portions.

when i'm racing with the pc7, i'll do my warm-up and then hit the interval button when the *** goes off. i get the interval/race time & distance. i'll hit the interval button at the finish. OTOH, if i didn't do that it's still pretty easy to identify the start/finish of my races after the fact.

yep, still pressing a button, but the thing i like is that i never have a situation where data from pedaling is not recorded. as i've always said with garmins, the loss of data is not common, but there are a few ways for it to happen and it is annoying when it does. i had an athlete, stressed, forget to hit start at an important TT. his head unit still displayed power for pacing, but we lost some good data. when intelligent people make this error (and many have), it points more to sub-optimal design than the individuals' fault.

IMO, IME, my $0.02, YMMV, etc.

I see. So you have a separate unit, the garmin, just for gps but have the SRM because you don't like having to press record? That seems like an extra PC7 for the 1/100 minute or two when you forget to press start.

one of our teammates had a deal on new SRMs.. only 3k with the pc8.

only. 3. k.

We've been down this road before. I use a pc7 99% of the time because it is bomber with respect to data. Garmin unfortunately does not meet my standard. Displaying data while not recording is ONE of the ways garmins can have data loss. As said previously, data loss with a garmin is not common but is always irritating (for me and my athletes. ymmv.)

The pc7 differs frm the garmin (and it sounds like the pioneer) in one key way. It is not about the time savings of hitting a button, it is about forgetting to hit a button resulting in missing data. It happens with devices that require one to hit start.

GPs, for me, is something I need only in a handful of situations....and I've nt only been a tester for garmin hardware, a user of garmin products since 1999, and a big supplier of GPS data for the precursor to garmin connect. For the last 4-5 years I realized I didn't need GPS on the road bike except for a few occasions, but I know others need it or like it.

Your teammate is not all that well connected.

People who use a pc7 generally know why they have it. Ask josh about his pc7s (plural).

Anyway, my curiosity was about the pioneer unit. You seem to be asking questions you know the answer to, and making a commentary on devices you've never used. Then again, you used to argue that garmins had no data issues back in the day, but in time you came around. Sometimes there are people who have a different perspective than you and have already been where you're heading.

Pc7 ftw...
Pc8 😀

Yes. Agreed. What you use is best. Can you PM me your address…I'd like to send you a cookie to go with that.

Actually the bag would have made a lot more cookies than that, I ate a bunch of the raw dough while I was making them. Although the bag does say not to eat the raw dough.

that's a nice photo, thanks

TR, I'm not arguing with you. I just meant that for me 1 > 2 in that GPS is the feature I value over the start/stop stuff. I didn't ask any questions other that how the non start-stop worked as I've never used anything other than a garmin or now this pioneer.

Your attention to the minutia in power calibration, recording, all that is fine. Don't be sensitive about it. It works for you, you enjoy it, all that's great. Every time I try to be light-hearted or less than 100% deadpan serious this goes sideways. Let's not.

My garmin(s) never recorded wrong data until the gps went bad on one which was warrantied. This 510 was great until it wasn't. I don't really recall ever having a love affair with garmin after the pita it was to get the 500 fixed, but the 510 randomly losing rides erased any warm feelings I have for them. Lesson learned.


Aren't you a mod? Trying to stir **** so you can meet your points quota?

Anyway, my work address is public so send it there. Make it detour bars, though.

Not stirring **** just pointing out like you do all the time how folks think what they do is best. To your mind srms are too expensive and pc7s lack gps. Got it. For someone else gps is useless and qarks fail. Blah blah. The whole thing gets a bit tired.

I want some of those cookies. Like right now.

I would invite you to follow that conversation backwards. I didn't start it, I answered a question, asked one totally sincere question, and inferred that when the functional difference (again, in the way I use them) between two options is a start/stop button (which I didn't even know was an optional thing), a 400% price difference is something I consider.

I'm like Zues with those lightning bolts of judgment, if answering questions posed to me is throwing lightning bolts of judgment. I guess. Anyway, for real, no mas.