Ygduf

the problem with this **** is that "need" is 100% subjective, person to person. I'm a 34 year-old amateur bike racer.

I already feel shame about how hard I try sometimes.

mattm

Well sure - when the stakes are high, asking for help makes sense.

But when you're racing for socks, water bottles, bragging rights, and gift certificates, maybe it's not worth it is my point. (for me anyway)

Let's face it - even winning Elite Nationals is not much more than bragging rights in the larger scheme of things.

grolby

Most of what little I actually know about this stupid sport I did not learn from reading books. Not that I didn't read books; but very few books are actually any good for teaching you racing skills.

revchuck 

Little that we do in our lives matters "in the larger scheme of things." We race because it means a lot to us personally; that personal meaning is what justifies the time, money and effort we put out...including springing for a coach.

Sizzle82

Wow this thread got a lot more attention than I expected. Well after reading through this thread and talking to a few people (ex racer, wife, and a coach) I'm going to just go into this season with low expectations as far as results and high expectations for gathering some race experience and learning some things. I'm going to go over some power files that I have for e the couple races I've done as well as some training rides and work on my overall strength as well as focusing on the weaker aspects of my riding. Thanks for all the opinions and info.

Also does anybody have a good go to trainer workouts they do on a regular basis that they like, its getting colder here and my indoor training is going to be here before I know it, and I'm always looking for ideas.

gsteinb

The problem with that is it's an inane argument. Sure, we're not curing world hunger…so why bother? The sliding scale on all that is silly. I honestly don't give a hoot if anyone uses a coach. I do take issue with the passive aggressive BS that says 'you can read the same book as your coach and do it yourself.' I don't generally think cat 5s need or should necessarily use a coach. My opinion is that they should get a few races in and see if they even like it.

To lump all coaches in the same category is philosophically unsound. To think that most anyone can do as good of a job self coaching is delusional.Left to their own devices the vast majority of guys come up with training ideas that are ridiculous. For chrissakes I'm a better racer than the overwhelming majority of guys who will ever post in this forum. In my 20s, left to my own devices, I essentially destroyed my racing career by following my own program and listening to (what I imagined) guys were doing. I utterly buried myself and ended up quitting the sport.

mattm

ok.

mattm

Furthermore, not having a coach doesn't equate to no structure/riding yourself into the ground/making stuff up.

revchuck 

Granted, but it would tend to prevent one from doing so.

Ygduf

Prevent?

wut.

hack

Would I get a coach? Sure, but it'd have to be the right coach and be within my budget. Problem is, I doubt the right coach is within my budget or what I'm currently willing to set aside for a budget. However, that may change over time when I hit a brick wall with respect to progress. I think coaches are a valuble option for racers, but as evidenced by the training approaches taken on and subsequent results of racers on this forum they're not an absolute necessity.

Fudgy rides a million miles a week hitting group rides and god knows what else (I suppose if we look at his Strava we'd know). Would that be a common coaching approach? My guess would be no and who knows if Fudgy would want to change his approach to something more structured and regimented as 4x5min, 2x20, etc (my guess would be no though). Now, if he had a coach that prescribed what he likes and is currently doing, then he'd still not want the coach becuause he'd just be paying for someone to say "keep it up!".

Others (e.g., MattM) take a more structured, but coachless approach and hit intervals, Zone2, etc and also have very good results.

Long ramble short, coaches probably work well for some and wouldn't work for others. People get results with and without coaches (sometimes without power, too).

fiataccompli

(late to the conversation). After a year of racing at (racing) age 45 I got a coach. I'd started of course in Cat5, and got what friends somewhat jokingly called a "field promotion) to Cat4 with a few months left in my first race season so by the time I chose to get a coach I was racing 4s. All of this was following basically a lifetime of cycling, but only a few years of really serious cycling (at some point, seriously re-visiting my lifelong love of the sport, I suddenly found myself migrating to be part of a group of riders who a later found out were all racers who were "training"...go figure). I probably had some advantage regarding being able to 'read' a group or situation (but NOT a race) and bike handling. So, along with a new(ish) training partner & teammate I hired a coach. No regrets here, though I'm not using him currently and the jury is out whether I will continue. While working with him, I experienced for the first time in my life a structured (and pointed) training plan, made trainer time actually useful, began working w/ a power meter, improved my FTP around 15%, learned about a number of horrible-to-do but effective interval sets, and (despite a bunch of life/schedule issues that interrupted training at times and kept me out of a number of races I had planned on doing) had a great year w/ RRs, Crits & TTs (podium finishes, a little money, a state champ jersey, points to upgrade, etc.). My comment (and I was serious) to my coach was that I wonder how I would have done if I'd actually followed his training plan completely! Seriously, we set up a schedule based on what I needed to develop, time available, key races, etc. and aside from periodic conversations by phone or over coffee, mostly communicated via a schedule and comments on Training Peaks. My observations for myself were along the lines of...
1. It helps to have & know someone is looking at my data
2. It also helps to know I've spent money on #1 and I hate to waste money
3. I envy the people I know who can research and develop a plan and stick with it. I may try to do this now that I see the benefit (you could say that the experience of being coached gave me faith that the training works or something like that)
4. I started with an indoor/lab FTP/VO2 max test
5. At the same time, I started using a power meter (and #2 applies in this regard also)
6. At the same time, my training & collaborating with teammates became more focused and provided a lot of additional impetus to put in the work & stay the course
7. Tactics and reading the race are the area I felt I didn't address well enough. My teammates have talked about working with someone on this aspect for next year, but we'll see. There's also the philosophy in the lower categories (especially if we routinely have 3-5 riders in a race) to simply take turns attacking...not as glamorous as a pro team on the TdF, but the local amateur veterans all seem to say that this is about as sophisticated as you're gonna get. My observation is the podiums are not for the strongest riders, they are for the shrewdest riders.

Lastly, the whole experience has blown my mind a bit. as I mentioned, I've had a lifetime love of cycling. I'm also a chronic gear head who would have described himself as being as much an enthusiast for the bikes as for the sport (read: lots of cool vintage race bikes)...so I came at the sport sideways just loving to ride and the fact that it is a sport, that people 'train', and that in doing it I may even be an "athlete" were sort of foreign concepts to me. As it turns out, I'm pretty decent at it all....but, of course never as good as I dream I am.

rkwaki

Wow I need to come back more often.
When I started riding I was 17, I met up with our local club who had a 1 km track and a coach with a scooter. I started racing right around my 18th birthday (August) and followed the advice, training and experience of my coach. I was a National Level Cat 1 before I turned 19. Sure there was an obvious genetic component but without his guidance it would have taken me much longer. I learned how to suffer more than you can imagine (****ing scooter) but most importantly everything was structured.
If I were racing would I hire a coach? No as this is just a hobby and in many regards I ride by feel (yes I do use an SRM but ultimately I know what works for me.
Should I come back to racing in 2015 it will be using what I would call an unstructured training plan but ultimately there is a lot of structure I just don't write it down.
If I were starting all over again and didn't meet the club would I hire a coach? Absolutely.
Do I know who? Absolutely.

jsutkeepspining

^me

carpediemracing 

I just realizing something. Your screen name is adapted from Finding Nemo? "Just keep swimming"

shovelhd

There are very few things in life that aren't 100% subjective, person to person. It's what makes us interesting as people. As humans we have very few basic needs. The rest of life is subjective.

Ygduf

Interesting. Annoying. Interesting. Annoying.

shovelhd

You look so confused. Calm down.

jsutkeepspining

Yep, fatherhood has taught you much

Alaska Mike

Sorry, my coach dictates what workouts I do... It was there and I took the shot. I couldn't help myself.

To be honest, I haven't tried the Sufferfest or Trainer Road, so I don't know what is available there. I will say that Racer X gave you a pretty good outline of a week of training. Alternate hard and easy days. Vo2max or TT intervals one day, Endurance the next... Durations are based on your available time and your goals, but I rarely spend more than 90min on the trainer. I'm not working on endurance in the winter, but rather doing targeted efforts to build/maintain FTP and work on my ability to produce and recover from repeated hard efforts. Every 4th week is somewhat easier so my body can repair for the next set, so I may have fewer or shorter interval workouts.

In my WKO post-activity comments, I generally include the average power for each interval I do, along with notes on how I perceived the workout to have gone. It's interesting to see how a low TSB, diet, or sleep can really affect intervals, so I've found those comments valuable when looking back for trends.

gsteinb

Should you get a coach?
would you step on a roach?
buy your mom a broach?
are you easy to approach?
with actions beyond reproach?
be sure to never ever encroach
if you get a coach

echappist

did Racer Ex coach you on composing that drole doggerel?

rkwaki

No it's called offseason...

Ygduf

I wrote a limerick about a guy who had a coach to get better, followed his workouts to the letter and remained cat 3 forever, but thought it was offensive maybe. Chose to not make that post but instead make some toast.
















j/k























carbs? aha amirite?

shovelhd

The objective of subjective is invective.