I was talking about frames, dood. I'd take a Hardrock frame over a 4300 any day. Frames are what you pointed out...I was illustrating the irony.

Yes, Motobecane is better than Walmart. I concur. For you to blanket Specialized makes better frames than Trek, yet the 4300 is better than the Hardrock, yet you recommend the Motobecane...is just bass-ackward or misleading to your point.