Dave Cutter

I hate forums and threads that turn into links to other (often dubious) Sites. A national radio show once did a bit that tabulated combined safety stats (from the headlines) which showed over 200 million American deaths a year.

In the Midwest, many years we have winter storms that are responsible for numerous deaths. Mostly those deaths are due to auto accidents or heart attacks from shoveling snow. Of course it would be silly NOT to expect a double (or even triple) count of those deaths.

Even though I hate these links... here is a single example: Contained in stats about pedestrian deaths are included stats about drunk drivers (killing pedestrians 15% of deaths) and drunk pedestrians (34%). Of course... those deaths will also show up contained in stats about the 88,000 alcohol related deaths... somewhere else. Which represents a double count.

But what bothers me is nowhere does anyone show that HALF of all pedestrian deaths are also alcohol related/caused.

In that same piece/Site it is reported that:
20 percnet of bicyclists killed had blood alcohol concentrations of 0.08 g/dL or higher.
In 29 percent of the crashes, either the driver or the bicyclist had blood alcohol concentrations of 0.08 g/dL or higher.

With a reasonable assumption (IMHO) that the bulk of the alcohol related stats apply to adult cyclists I think we can see our greatest cycling related death/risk. (25% of all cycling deaths being alcohol related... or more accurately... half of all adult cycling deaths being alcohol related.)

Riding sober, wearing a helmet, and avoiding areas where drinking drivers might be the norm (pub/events at closing time) makes adult cycling very safe.

I have nothing against drinking. But the mixing of drinking related deaths with cycling related deaths does NOT serve the cycling community well. And not fully informing those who walk or bicycle (instead of driving) while drinking doesn't serve them well ether.

indyfabz

I'll drink to all that!

KingCat

That not true. There are currently 7 billion people who are alive and haven't died

TGT1

Yet!

wphamilton

That's the reasoning I use. (Even though - commenting on your later post - there may be some overlap in the deaths involving drunk drivers and drunk cyclists so it might not be "half" - I round it off to a third). When you also eliminate some bizarre behavior such as night riding without lights, riding the wrong way and a few others, and take some basic precautions, the stats start looking very good for cycling.

Dave Cutter

Unfortunately.... I agree completely. Drunk drivers add significantly to the risk of cyclists... as well as pedestrians and other motorists. I'll stick my neck out and even guess that much of the bad behavior, anger, and verbal abuse cyclist experience (from motorists) are drug and alcohol related.

I am not anti-alcohol. I am not pro-alcohol ether. I'll concede that about half (or maybe only 1/3) of all adult cycling deaths probably are caused from alcohol use.... by the cyclist, a motorist, or by both. I have seen stats that put alcohol in the blood of more of the cyclists... than involved motorist. I am not sure I want to delve too deeply into cause-effect of alcohol other than recognizing it does play a major role in cycling safety.

People do seem to like to alter their sober state of consciousness using alcohol and other drugs. This type of activity is so old and wide-spread I would think it should be considered "normal". There may be acceptable solutions to the cultural use/acceptance of alcohol and drug use. Whatever the solutions are, or might be, they are above my understanding.

okane

Yesterday I rode my bike in the streets near my home and will do so again today.

And in a few moments I will be driving my car to pickup my new bowling ball and bag!

Danger? I thrive on it. It's an adrenalin rush I just can't discribe?

However I'm stopping at a flea market on the way home (if I live that long) and if I find a bike to buy, I won't be bringing it into the house until my wife goes out or goes to bed......having her see me adding another ride to my stable is just to dangerous!

Gresp15C

I found that page to be unintelligible. It didn't seem to put any of the activities on an equal footing in terms of the units of measure -- deaths per what?

Rollfast

Some of us are reaching that age and stage.

genec

Taxis and self driving cars... They at least get the couple of tons of moving metal out of the hands of those too spaced to properly pilot them. I think that is fairly easy to understand.

RomansFiveEight

I have seriously had a very obese smoker tell me that cycling was too dangerous. We're good at racking up injury statistics, but how does it compare to those with sedentary lifestyles?

And it's not just lifespan, but quality of life. I don't ride a bike because I want to live forever, I ride a bike because I don't want to spend my last 3 decades surviving on pills, stints, and insulin.

I-Like-To-Bike

Bicycling is great but don't fool yourself.

Do you really think that you can avoid the effects of old age just by riding a bike, or that bicycling has magical prophylactic properties that prevents heart disease and diabetes? Do you think bicycling will also prevent cancer, baldness and bad breath too?

RomansFiveEight

Oh of course not. But the facts are out there. I was formerly obese and sedentary. Now that I'm no longer obese, and now that I'm active, my risk factors for a number of diseases are significantly lower. Being fit, a healthy weight, and active does indeed significantly lower the risk of diabetes, heart disease, heart attack, high blood pressure, stroke, and a number of other issues. Heck, if statistics aren't your thing, check out the Clydes/Athena forum and look at all the stories of guys and gals who biked their way out of diabetes (as in had it, and no longer do), blood pressure medication, etc. etc. Seems like every week or two in there someone is talking about a pill they no longer have to take or a condition they no longer suffer from (or that has had a marked reduction in symptoms)

I also enjoy riding a bike. But what got me into it, was it seemed like the most fun way to be consistently active. Get that heartrate up and get the blood pumping.

I could get all of that. Congestive heart failure, diabetes, high blood pressure; all while being active. But my risk factor of getting it is much lower. Whereas it was very high when I was obese. I made a decision, some time ago, that I wasn't going to be sedentary. That means cycling, parking at the back of parking lots and walking, taking the stairs, etc. As long as I'm physically able, I'll be as active as I can. If nothing else, I feel much better, have way more energy, sleep better, am more focused, and love life more than I ever have. The benefits of being active vs. being sedentary are extraordinary. So in the sense of the topic of this thread; the benefits far outweigh the injury risks of an active lifestyle. And indeed, I'm convinced that the sedentary lifestyle is more lethal.

Dave Cutter

Human error... for whatever reason... is removed completely when a machine does the driving! I am all for the driverless cars (I'd love to nap, surf, or watch TV during trips in the car). But did you see that CA put a halt to Googles driverless cars with new laws forbidding them. I would guess it's a shake-down! Google has money.... and kickbacks must be paid. We're turning into a 3rd world, pisswater nation.

RomansFiveEight

Yep. I'd love driverless cars.

I hear people worrying about failures but, I trust a machine more than a human. I look forward to the day when technology is such that an approaching cyclist (or motorcyclist or other car) is seen by the car even if not by the driver; preventing a driver from pulling out or turning left in front of it.

Chris0516

Ten-Pin, Candlepin, Duckpin, lawn bowling?

I have a Ten-Pin double ball bag w/ wheels, 2x16pd. bowling balls, bowling shoes, towel, cleaning fluid, wrist guard.

How about you? Nice to see another biker likes bowling as much as I do. What is your high game? Mine is 242(when I was 16 in 1983). The closest I have come to that score since then, is 210.

okane

I earned a varsity letter in high school on the bowling team. We were in a league with other schools in the county. We won the championship in 1965 and I had high league average of 186. Not much by today's standards but was pretty good back then. I also had high series that year; somewhere around 630. I had the opportunity to visit my old school this summer and our county championship trophy was in the display case. Was about 8 inches high and no names were on the face plate so you can imagine how important that championship was and I lost my chance at immortality.

My highest game was non league event. I was dating a new flame and for our 3rd date we went bowling. Shot a 279 and as I walked back from the lane after my last frame with a real smug look on my face I said, "Not bad." She said, "279...is that good?"

Anyway I got away from bowling until just this year and boy, has time taken it's toll. Yesterday bowled 4 games....133, 200, 110, 188! That's about as inconsistent as you can get. I do enjoy it still and hope to get involved in a league if I can hone my skills a bit.

The nice thing about cycling and bowling is that an old guy like me can still enjoy it and experience a bit of profficency. I was still playing full court basketball at age 60, but my body woke up one day and said that will be enough of that!

Of course both bowling and cycling are very dangerous activities so be careful!!!

Chris0516

Your inconsistency on the lane, is no match for my inconsistency, lol

In a three-game league set in the early-to-mid 1980's. I could do something like 175, 89, 125. Talk about breaking a yo-yo with those scores.

GravelMN

I've been a paramedic for 20 years and I've performed CPR on numerous individuals who were smokers, obsese, sedentary or any combination thereof. I have responded to several bicycle accidents and the worst injury I've seen on a rider so far (knock on wood) is a fractured femur. A combination of bad genetics and the sins of my younger life led me to two heart attacks over the past couple of years (both after I became an avid cyclist). My cardiologist told me that my cycling lifestyle greatly contributed to my positive outcomes (virtually zero damage) and may have saved my life.

Even when my time comes, I'd rather die having enjoyed the last moments of my life on a bicycle, than on the couch, remote in hand, channel surfing through reruns.

"A ship in a harbor is safe, but that's not what ships were built for." Author Unknown

Rollfast

Then the shortage of rental properties is a lie, of course.

Dave Cutter

The stats serve their purposes... or better said, stats serve the purpose of the one(s) who pays to have the stats tabulated. Trying to morph stats complied for one use to serve some other function is entertainment math at best.

RomansFiveEight

Yep.

Fear is genuinely fascinating and it's something that has for a long time really fascinated us. From media organizations selling fear to just the fact that we tend to be more afraid of a less-likely injury than we are of a more-likely debilitating disease, poor end-of-life quality and shortened lifespan from sedentary lifestyles and unhealthy diets.

digibud

I used to be a full time hang glider pilot. The study gives weight to my comments over the years when I'd say, in response to some comment about how dangerous biking was (or other thing), " I used to fly kites full time. This doesn't even come up on my radar of dangerous things". Happily the worst accident I was in was due to test flying a new production kite and spraining my ankle on a bad landing.

genec

That clause will eventually be removed... after driverless cars been on the roads enough to prove the technology. Originally, laws were in place that made the "Horseless Carriage" impossible to use... one had to have a flagman walking forward of the vehicle to warn oncoming horse riders that the "confounded contraption" was on the the way. Obviously, things have changed.

Dave Cutter

Yes I am absolutely sure it will.... once new fee's and/or taxes have been figured out. And lawyers can be assured that somehow... these new cars won't cut into there revenue stream.

No....... Cars were on the streets before the laws were put in place. The laws were created to create an obstruction to the cars use. THEN when license and registration fees, and car specific laws promised new fines........... cars MAGICALLY .... became safe.

Don't kid yourself... or be naïve about how it all works. No one was "afraid" of the original cars (not even horses)... and government isn't afraid of the safety of driverless cars. This is about CASH.