How could the tragedy be avoided? (Warning: disturbing video)
#126
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Had the cyclist realized she was in a dangerous spot, and adjusted her speed appropriately, she could have gotten out of the blind spot, and to a place where she could have seen the truck's movements in time to react.
I'm not sure I would exclude the entire area behind the truck. A tight draft may be dangerous, but hang back a few feet, and a bicycle should have better stopping distance than a truck in good pavement conditions.
#127
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Night time riding with bright lights has some advantages over daytime riding. If it's night and the woman in the video had a bright front light with long throw, it should have caught the driver's attention (from the windshield or mirror).
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Because I see cyclists in my city riding along in dangerous situations fat, happy, and stupid, it is not a reasonable assumption that people in other cities on bicycles, commuting or otherwise, might behave the same way? Just like the "Chinese woman" in the video was obviously riding? I gave some specific examples of what i have observed relative to her riding "style", because Heaven help any of us who post vague assumptions around here.
I don't know how big the stick is, but you should probably have it removed before you sit on a bicycle saddle.
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Of course one has cyclists with years of both driving and riding experience.
And one has newbie cyclists that have neither.
Hopefully the newbies can learn some of the wisdom that their elders have learned and observed... and will survive to be an elder
And one has newbie cyclists that have neither.
Hopefully the newbies can learn some of the wisdom that their elders have learned and observed... and will survive to be an elder
#130
Cycle Year Round
As vol suggested, awareness of vehicles, blind spots, and visibility is very important.
Had the cyclist realized she was in a dangerous spot, and adjusted her speed appropriately, she could have gotten out of the blind spot, and to a place where she could have seen the truck's movements in time to react.
Had the cyclist realized she was in a dangerous spot, and adjusted her speed appropriately, she could have gotten out of the blind spot, and to a place where she could have seen the truck's movements in time to react.
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#131
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Thread Starter
Another elaborate article on right hooks by trucks and tragic incidents:
Collision Course: With Wary Eye on Big Trucks, Bike Riders Seek Safe Space on City Streets - FairWarning | FairWarning
Collision Course: With Wary Eye on Big Trucks, Bike Riders Seek Safe Space on City Streets - FairWarning | FairWarning
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If one recognises the potential danger zone near trucks, and other large vehicles, then there is no reason not to adjust one's speed to get out of it.
Also note in the video there is some wicked left turning traffic coming from the opposite direction. At least one car ahead of the truck took evasive maneuvers. Being next to a truck going straight, one might be rather protected. However, one would neither be able to see the oncoming traffic, nor would one be visible to those vehicles.
#133
Cycle Year Round
I don't ride at a steady pace. If I want to go faster, I pedal harder. If I want to slow down, I coast or hit the brakes.
If one recognises the potential danger zone near trucks, and other large vehicles, then there is no reason not to adjust one's speed to get out of it.
Also note in the video there is some wicked left turning traffic coming from the opposite direction. At least one car ahead of the truck took evasive maneuvers. Being next to a truck going straight, one might be rather protected. However, one would neither be able to see the oncoming traffic, nor would one be visible to those vehicles.
If one recognises the potential danger zone near trucks, and other large vehicles, then there is no reason not to adjust one's speed to get out of it.
Also note in the video there is some wicked left turning traffic coming from the opposite direction. At least one car ahead of the truck took evasive maneuvers. Being next to a truck going straight, one might be rather protected. However, one would neither be able to see the oncoming traffic, nor would one be visible to those vehicles.
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#134
Banned
Pay more attention, the traffic traveling in the cyclist direction had a green light, and I do not stop at every intersection with green lights, busy or not, to check to see what is going on around, why should this cyclist.
#135
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It is not about fear, but the environment created in that cyclists must keep and maintain such a high vigilance for their safety stemming from motorist complacency, inattentiveness, and blatant disregard for vulnerable road users due to low consequences or incentives to avoid injuring or killing vulnerable road users.
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Such a very common sense thing to do, but apparently some are too impatient to take three seconds to have a look around to evaluate conditions at the intersection to see if it is safe to proceed. Common sense is not so common it seems, and there are those who have the misfortune of being born without it. But if they are still intent on playing chicken with a 10,000 lb dump truck or bus at the intersection, well there's not much more anyone can do about it except let Darwin take its course.
#137
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Such a very common sense thing to do, but apparently some are too impatient to take three seconds to have a look around to evaluate conditions at the intersection to see if it is safe to proceed. Common sense is not so common it seems, and there are those who have the misfortune of being born without it. But if they are still intent on playing chicken with a 10,000 lb dump truck or bus at the intersection, well there's not much more anyone can do about it except let Darwin take its course.
This comment makes me feel that you spend more time on a MUP than actually riding on the road way.... stopping at every green lighted intersection to check and to see what is going on around you?
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To check for cars that run the red light, who are turning right, pedestrians who may be running across the street, etc.
A green light doesn't mean it is 100% safe to proceed, to assume that is just foolishness.
#139
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I watch for all the aforementioned, I may reduce my speed, but unless there is situation mandating for me to stop, such as emergency vehicles, or a blocked intersection, etc., I do not stop period.
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To blame the cyclist is patently ridiculous.
Yes, she made some tactical errors by allowing herself to remain in a blind spot, and not ready to react to the possibility of a right hook.
BUT and this is a big BUT.
The truck driver is operating with full knowledge that there are cyclists and motos to his right. For all practical purposes he's making a right turn across a busy lane of traffic, and as such is 100% responsible for the consequences of HIS negligence.
These kinds of situations are analogous to riding through a sketchy area and getting mugged. People might ask what you were thinking by being there in the first place, but that in no way reduces the culpability of the mugger.
Yes, she made some tactical errors by allowing herself to remain in a blind spot, and not ready to react to the possibility of a right hook.
BUT and this is a big BUT.
The truck driver is operating with full knowledge that there are cyclists and motos to his right. For all practical purposes he's making a right turn across a busy lane of traffic, and as such is 100% responsible for the consequences of HIS negligence.
These kinds of situations are analogous to riding through a sketchy area and getting mugged. People might ask what you were thinking by being there in the first place, but that in no way reduces the culpability of the mugger.
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#141
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In this case the cyclist should have slowed down at least before entering the intersection, to get behind the truck. It isn't safe to ride beside any vehicle in the right lane approaching an intersection when you cannot know if they are going to turn and you cannot be sure they have seen you. Particularly when you are in their blind spot, but that's just me. If you want to play Russian Roulette that's your choice.
Last edited by northernlights; 07-23-16 at 10:09 AM.
#142
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It is not about fear, but the environment created in that cyclists must keep and maintain such a high vigilance for their safety stemming from motorist complacency, inattentiveness, and blatant disregard for vulnerable road users due to low consequences or incentives to avoid injuring or killing vulnerable road users.
Basically, cyclists are not being spared of the slightest lack of vigilance (punished by death and often blamed in the court), while truck drivers are given merciful understanding and forgiveness in the court even when the fault is theirs.
Some quotes from the article linked in post #131:
Safety advocates would like to see a range of reforms: Better training for drivers, restrictions on the size of trucks allowed on busy thoroughfares, better-designed streets, more federal funds for bike and pedestrian safety and tougher penalties for drivers who kill bicyclists and pedestrians. Meanwhile, there’s also a small but growing movement in U.S. cities to adopt a simple truck retrofit — one already in use in much of the world — that could immediately save lives.
Such a very common sense thing to do, but apparently some are too impatient to take three seconds to have a look around to evaluate conditions at the intersection to see if it is safe to proceed. Common sense is not so common it seems, and there are those who have the misfortune of being born without it. But if they are still intent on playing chicken with a 10,000 lb dump truck or bus at the intersection, well there's not much more anyone can do about it except let Darwin take its course.
Being crushed by a big truck driven by a human being is not like being eaten by a grizzly bear. I can see northernlights' comments applying to the tourist plunging from a mountain top while taking pictures, or the zoo employee mauled by a lion after forgetting to close the cage door, but maybe you are equating the drivers to dumb rocks and uneducated animals.
Last edited by vol; 07-23-16 at 10:11 AM.
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Such cold-blooded comments.
Being crushed by a big truck driven by a human being is not like being eaten by a grizzly bear. I can see northernlights' comments applying to the tourist plunging from a mountain top while taking pictures, or the zoo employee mauled by a lion after forgetting to close the cage door, but maybe you are equating the drivers to dumb rocks and uneducated animals.
Playing chicken with a dump truck is as dumb as taking a selfie on the edge of a mountain cliff.
Anyone with half a brain will tell you those are stupid things to do, and it isn't "cold" to point it out.
#144
Banned
Who said anything about stopping? That's your word not mine.
In this case the cyclist should have slowed down at least before entering the intersection, to get behind the truck. It isn't safe to ride beside any vehicle in the right lane approaching an intersection when you cannot know if they are going to turn and you cannot be sure they have seen you. Particularly when you are in their blind spot, but that's just me. If you want to play Russian Roulette that's your choice.
In this case the cyclist should have slowed down at least before entering the intersection, to get behind the truck. It isn't safe to ride beside any vehicle in the right lane approaching an intersection when you cannot know if they are going to turn and you cannot be sure they have seen you. Particularly when you are in their blind spot, but that's just me. If you want to play Russian Roulette that's your choice.
If you look directly behind the cyclist, was a moped rider tailgating, so much for slowing down, possibly to get hit from behind and deflected into the traffic lane, only be hit or crushed in the process.
Due to the lax intersection control and motorist intimidation, I tend to suspect that cyclist was expecting that the truck was to go straight and use it to block turning motorists coming from the left, but since that the truck driver was negligent and traveling at an unsafe speed to adequately check the adjacent right lane, the cyclist was unable to move quickly enough to get out of the truck's line of travel.
Last edited by dynodonn; 07-23-16 at 10:35 AM.
#145
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The bear that killed a human to feed herself and her cubs got something out of the killing, but the truck driver that killed a stranger on the bike or on foot got nothing positive even if he's not jailed, did he?
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Are you joking? So you're never ever going to slow down or stop for any reason because you're afraid you might get run over by the person behind you? Thats quite absurd. I don't know why you would assume that but unless the moped rider is blind or drunk he is going to also slow down or swerve when he sees you slowing down. And if he doesn't getting rear ended by a moped is much more preferable, and survivable than run over by dump truck.
#149
Banned
Are you joking? So you're never ever going to slow down or stop for any reason because you're afraid you might get run over by the person behind you? Thats quite absurd. I don't know why you would assume that but unless the moped rider is blind or drunk he is going to also slow down or swerve when he sees you slowing down. And if he doesn't getting rear ended by a moped is much more preferable, and survivable than run over by dump truck.
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Right. So don't ever stop at a stoplight then.
When the police pull you over for running a red light you can tell them you did it because you were afraid of getting rear-ended by the vehicle behind you. That is, if you even make it across the intersection in one piece which is highly doubtful. I'm sure they would understand that nonsense excuse. The nice officer might even let you go with a warning and a pat on the back just because you made him laugh so hard.