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Speed Kills

Old 09-18-23, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
If you can wear 'ordinary clothes' on the bike you aren't hammering, or not going far, and that's fine. You do you. Those of us who plan to work up a sweat, have different needs. Can you get your head around that?
This^
No way am I going on a hard, long, fast ride in ordinary street clothes. That would be as dumb AF!

I have regularly commuted in ordinary clothes and havenít noticed any difference in the way motorists behaved.
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Old 09-18-23, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Motorists do not care a whit what a cyclist wears.
I know for a fact.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Your street clothes do NOT make you more acceptable to a cager.
If a cyclist is dressed like restaurant wait staff i.e., black pants and white shirt, it looks like he's headed to / from work. If a cyclist is dressed like a circus performer or a lost TDF participant, they look like they are going to play. The cyclist "in the motorist's way" on the way to work is much more acceptable to motorists than the cyclist in the way "PLAYING" on his bike.

Again, just ask people who drive cars and don't ride bikes. I have. I know.
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Old 09-18-23, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Again, just ask people who drive cars and don't ride bikes.
Joey, that's most people. I don't care what they think. I am NOT going to dress up like I am going to wait tables if I am actually going on a 40 mile training ride. Where is this coming from? If that's what it takes to be safe from being hit, then it isn't worth it. Luckily you are wrong, and you don't have to engage in stupid mind games with total strangers to ride well and often, and safely too. I'm living proof. Ask me. Don't ask people who don't ride, what do they know?
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Old 09-18-23, 10:42 AM
  #29  
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I wear the clothes I choose for riding to suit me and my needs, not the perceptions of others on the roadway, regardless of conveyance. I typically wear normal street clothes with bike shorts (and SPD shoes if the bike's pedals call for it), and I'm as comfortable as I would be in cycling-specific kit, even at 35į or 105į(F). Due to the wonders of technology and the market, nearly all the advanced fabrics used in cycling clothes are generally available in street clothes. My choice, and far better than the choices available 40 years ago.

Edit: But if riders want to wear cycling-specific clothing, I have absolutely no problem with that either. Let everyone choose what suits them best.
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Old 09-18-23, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I know for a fact.



If a cyclist is dressed like restaurant wait staff i.e., black pants and white shirt, it looks like he's headed to / from work. If a cyclist is dressed like a circus performer or a lost TDF participant, they look like they are going to play. The cyclist "in the motorist's way" on the way to work is much more acceptable to motorists than the cyclist in the way "PLAYING" on his bike.

Again, just ask people who drive cars and don't ride bikes. I have. I know.
Victim blaming. In its purest form.

It's a near certainty that no cyclists at all would be "much more acceptable" to these motorists than wearing other clothing.


Last edited by njkayaker; 09-18-23 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-18-23, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
If you have any non-cyclist friends who commute to work by car in a metropolitan area daily, ask them. You will be surprised.
Depends on who your friends and colleagues are. You might be surprised to find this attitude isn't universal or even common. No one I know would give the answer you suggest.

Pulled in my driveway after my ride today and saw a contractor marking trees for removal due to proximity to power lines. So I walked over to discuss what he planned take out. We talked about the trees a bit, said good day, and his final words were "stay healthy." He didn't see an old guy who looked foolish in spandex, he saw an old guy who was trying to stay fit. And I think that's what most people see.

There is of course a segment of the population that points and laughs. They often seem to align in other ways as well. I'm glad I don't know or associate with too many of that sort. Makes life a lot more pleasant.
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Old 09-18-23, 01:50 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike

Again, just ask people who drive cars and don't ride bikes. I have. I know.
How do you even get around to having that conversation?

ďHey Bob, I know you donít ride bikes, but how do you feel about how cyclists dress when driving past them? Just asking for a friendĒ.

BS
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Old 09-18-23, 02:08 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
How do you even get around to having that conversation?

“Hey Bob, I know you don’t ride bikes, but how do you feel about how cyclists dress when driving past them? Just asking for a friend”.

BS
Everybody I know, and my wife knows, is aware that I have been a serious cyclist for 50+ years. The subject comes up naturally across a dinner table. First question: "Are you one of those cyclists who runs red lights and stop signs?" AND "Why do cyclists wear Spandex suits at the grocery store?" or something similar. Once they learn that I'm laughing WITH THEM, the conversations get pretty long and hilarious.

Am I the kind of cyclist running red lights? No, I'm the kind of cyclist that won't be blocking the road in front of you when the light turns green!

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Old 09-18-23, 02:12 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Don't ask people who don't ride, what do they know?
The whole point of this topic is related to what do motorists think about cyclists, and why. Not what do cyclists think about cyclists.

Why do motorists hate us, or not respect us? Because "we" impede their progress and often look like clowns at play impeding their progress. In a nutshell.
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Old 09-18-23, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I know for a fact.

If a cyclist is dressed like restaurant wait staff i.e., black pants and white shirt, it looks like he's headed to / from work. If a cyclist is dressed like a circus performer or a lost TDF participant, they look like they are going to play. The cyclist "in the motorist's way" on the way to work is much more acceptable to motorists than the cyclist in the way "PLAYING" on his bike.

Again, just ask people who drive cars and don't ride bikes. I have. I know.
So, you asked these people and they didn't mention the impeding issue? They talked about clothing being so troublesome but not impeding?

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Why do motorists hate us, or not respect us? Because "we" impede their progress and often look like clowns at play impeding their progress. In a nutshell.
So, impeding is more of an issue than what some riders wear.

How the heck is changing what cyclists wear going to fix the bigger issue of impeding?

It's stupid to think that "motorists who hate us" are going to magically be turned-around by what people wear.

The only way of dealing with the impeding issue is to ban bicyclists.


Last edited by njkayaker; 09-18-23 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 09-18-23, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
So, you asked these people and they didn't mention the impeding issue? They talked about clothing being so troublesome but not impeding?


So, impeding is more of an issue than what some riders wear.

How the heck is changing what cyclists wear going to fix the bigger issue of impeding?

It's stupid to think that "motorists who hate us" are going to magically be turned-around by what people wear.

The only way of dealing with the impeding issue is to ban bicyclists.


I believe it is easier to tolerate people "in the way" going to / from work than it is to tolerate people "playing" in the roadway slowing down motorists or *GASP* forcing them to turn their steering wheels. Also people are very tribal in nature. It's US vs. THEM. The more you try to look different than some "standard" the more you wold be considered "other". It's an ancient survival mechanism etched into human DNA. Don't trust the "Others". Tribalism was necessary and worked great for a few million years. Helped us survive as a species.

Tribalism is glaringly obvious right now. Don't want this to end up in P&R so I'm not going into all that.
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Old 09-18-23, 04:38 PM
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Cyclists don't impede traffic,entitled people in cars do. But Joey has it right. If you dress exclusively to fit into a certain group,, you will be an "other" to everyone not in this group. If you only hang out with one specific group of people, you will never have a clue what others think , but of course we are all on here to hang out with other cyclisrs...
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Old 09-18-23, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Am I the kind of cyclist running red lights? No, I'm the kind of cyclist that won't be blocking the road in front of you when the light turns green!
You know your red-light running enrages motorists. But, somehow, it’s beyond your ability to choose not to. Yet, you want other cyclists to do something because, “in your mind”, it’s a problem. That’s self-centered and hypocritical.

Asking other people to stop doing something legal while repeating crowing about your “right” to do something illegal is absurd and ridiculous.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I believe it is easier to tolerate people "in the way" going to / from work than it is to tolerate people "playing" in the roadway slowing down motorists or *GASP* forcing them to turn their steering wheels.
It takes the same amount of effort.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Also people are very tribal in nature. It's US vs. THEM. The more you try to look different than some "standard" the more you wold be considered "other". It's an ancient survival mechanism etched into human DNA. Don't trust the "Others". Tribalism was necessary and worked great for a few million years. Helped us survive as a species.

Tribalism is glaringly obvious right now. Don't want this to end up in P&R so I'm not going into all that.
So, you want to pander to this "tribalism".

What they are wearing is a distant second to the "impeding" thing. And you didn't mention the "impeding" thing (until later).

Motorists who "hate" cyclists do so because they are "in the way". They really don't care about what they imaging they are doing there.

Changing what cycling wear doesn't change that problem.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-19-23 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 09-19-23, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Everybody I know, and my wife knows, is aware that I have been a serious cyclist for 50+ years. The subject comes up naturally across a dinner table. First question: "Are you one of those cyclists who runs red lights and stop signs?" AND "Why do cyclists wear Spandex suits at the grocery store?" or something similar. Once they learn that I'm laughing WITH THEM, the conversations get pretty long and hilarious.

Am I the kind of cyclist running red lights? No, I'm the kind of cyclist that won't be blocking the road in front of you when the light turns green!
Iíve also been a keen cyclist for nearly as long and not once has this conversation ever happened. So it isnít a universal attitude. Maybe I donít hang out with people who would ask dumb questions like that. The usual cycling questions I get revolve around how far I ride and places Iíve visited. Attitudes toward cyclists no doubt vary considerably by location.
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Old 09-21-23, 09:18 PM
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Here's an idea: what if... all drivers may not be exactly the same? What if some respond the same to all cyclists regardless of attire, and others may respond differently to those in full kit? It's almost as though there are multiple perspectives that may be simultaneously accurate for different drivers based on country / state / economic background / time of day / what someone ate for dinner. Nah, that's probably crazy - continue arguing, we'll come to an answer soon I'm sure.
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Old 09-22-23, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by retswerb
Here's an idea: what if... all drivers may not be exactly the same? What if some respond the same to all cyclists regardless of attire, and others may respond differently to those in full kit? It's almost as though there are multiple perspectives that may be simultaneously accurate for different drivers based on country / state / economic background / time of day / what someone ate for dinner. Nah, that's probably crazy - continue arguing, we'll come to an answer soon I'm sure.
The vast majority of drivers aren't any problem.
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Old 09-25-23, 08:01 AM
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Not sure why you guys continue to argue with a well documented troll. Reminds me of the story of the Tiger and the Donkey.

https://movemequotes.com/when-arguin...and-the-tiger/
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Old 09-28-23, 07:03 AM
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For What It's Worth, I have and wear a kilt from time to time. Plaid of colors of the local sports team. As an experiment, I loaded up the panniers, donned a backpack, threw on some cycling shorts under the kilt. All in an effort to play into the image a motorist would probably have of a fit female commuter. There was a noticable change in driver behaviour. The cars approached from the rear slower. They gave a wider berth when passing. The only thing that changed from their new found cautious behaviour was how hard they stepped on the gas pedal when they saw my big bushy beard and realized I was a dude!

Drivers do indeed treat cyclists differently based on whether or not there is some relate.
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Old 09-28-23, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by base2
Drivers do indeed treat cyclists differently based on whether or not there is some relate.
I had a classmate at LSU back in the '70s who commuted by bike on a gnarly, busy two-lane death road (Highland Rd). Hateful. One day he noticed a broken child carrier on someone's trash heap and got the idea to carry his books etc., in that. (There weren't tons of options for bike racks back then that a college kid could afford). He rigged it up over his rear wheel and guess what? Motorists we're almost going in the ditches in the far lane to pass him thinking he had a kid in there. He was not expecting that! So he added a little ball cap to the top of the kid seat so it was more convincing.

Yes, some motorists do react differently to how cyclists appear to them. When I get old and slow I will try the baby seat trick myself. They don't weigh much and will even carry your lunch!
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Old 09-28-23, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Yes, some motorists do react differently to how cyclists appear to them. When I get old and slow I will try the baby seat trick myself. They don't weigh much and will even carry your lunch!
When, or if, it becomes necessary to engage in those kinds of mind game strategies to stay alive commuting to work, it will be time to retire. Both from working and also cycling. Some of you escape to the hills and gravel paths and think you are good there but word on the street is that as many offroad cycling enthusiasts are having extremely bad hair days in the wilderness, so its really a zero sum as far as that goes.
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Old 09-29-23, 12:13 PM
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Would Senator Fetterman cycle in a HOODIE??
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Old 09-29-23, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I had a classmate at LSU back in the '70s who commuted by bike on a gnarly, busy two-lane death road (Highland Rd). Hateful. One day he noticed a broken child carrier on someone's trash heap and got the idea to carry his books etc., in that. (There weren't tons of options for bike racks back then that a college kid could afford). He rigged it up over his rear wheel and guess what? Motorists we're almost going in the ditches in the far lane to pass him thinking he had a kid in there. He was not expecting that! So he added a little ball cap to the top of the kid seat so it was more convincing.

Yes, some motorists do react differently to how cyclists appear to them. When I get old and slow I will try the baby seat trick myself. They don't weigh much and will even carry your lunch!
If it works, do it! Much like the folks who use crash-test-dummies (the dummies, not the band) to avoid "High Occupancy" lanes.
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